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| Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} (1162592) | |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Jun 20 22:41:00 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 20 18:45:17 2012. The rape at 21st-Van Alst a few years back pretty much dispels the notion that staff makes you inherently safer.Safety is not just monitoring for crime in the system. It was never the job of TA personnel to act as police officers (they have no equipment or training to do so), but eliminate those two titles and say goodbye to any customer service and most importantly, safe train operation. I guess those who never worked in hourly capacities can't and don't want to understand that. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Pelham Bay Dave on Thu Jun 21 00:26:09 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jun 19 19:57:09 2012. Yeah Train Crews make more then new TSS's as well. However T/D's got it the worst. All I need is a Time Machine to take me back to 2011. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Mr RT on Thu Jun 21 07:36:15 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by merrick1 on Wed Jun 20 19:45:10 2012. It all relates to moral & respect ... the MTA has forgotten these things. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Jun 21 07:47:48 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Mr RT on Thu Jun 21 07:36:15 2012. No they haven't. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Jun 21 07:58:17 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Mr RT on Thu Jun 21 07:36:15 2012. It all relates to moral & respect ... the MTA has forgotten these things.Depends on which Dept you work for i cant speak for others but in operating titles... SMH still its an issue thats being addressed when it needs to be. |
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| (1162941) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Mr RT on Thu Jun 21 08:02:04 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by J trainloco on Wed Jun 20 18:45:17 2012. "... I'm not sure how prevailing wage law applies to this ..."All I'm saying is that salaries (of blue collar folks) in the NY metro area are higher then many cities out of town, so they are not out of line with what other blue collar workers get A-N-D management said yes when the unions asked for a raise, so how is it their fault ? "... Actually, labor costs within the operating budget are the MTA's largest annual expense ..." The union folks do make a good salary, but the MTA has added a lot of supervision & back office types. If they paid & trained (and supported) their supervisors better they could reduce a lot of them. In addition there are far too many back office folks ... because the MTA isn't run like a business, so they just add staff when a project comes up. "... Capital expenditure ... totally separate budgets (from operating budgets) ..." Correct, but those moneys not gotten from the feds come from the state, i.e. tax payers ! Look at the cost of the East Side Access ... initially projected at $3B, it is now up to $8.24. This doesn't seem reasonable, but I'm not going to get into a big discussion about it in this thread. "... Rehab projects ... are critical to keeping what we have operating ..." Correct again, but do we have to spend so much on them ? |
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| (1162979) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Ble-nimx on Thu Jun 21 10:53:31 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Jun 20 06:46:43 2012. You missed the point altogether. collective bargaining. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Jun 21 12:47:46 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Ble-nimx on Thu Jun 21 10:53:31 2012. I did not miss the point. If they get ride of uniforms for T/O it would cost me more in the long run then what ever raise we get. I would have to go out and buy my own stuff to wear for them. How much would that cost a year over the long term? |
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| (1163029) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by IRT/O on Thu Jun 21 13:58:05 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 19 23:20:28 2012. Broadly speaking railroad unions have a "craft" tradition while the TWU has alwaays been an "industrial" union. |
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| (1163086) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Jun 21 18:50:06 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Broadway Buffer on Wed Jun 20 22:41:00 2012. The TWU has made public safety from crimes a sticking point in their campaign to keep staffing at present levels. As for operational safety, automation is far safer than human control, but I haven't heard of any push for MTA to go ZPTO anyway. Customer service is a good point, but the current push towards a centralized 'help center' with HPIs would alleviate that concern. It can't be any worse than the current system, where C/R's often make incorrect or unhelpful announcements. |
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| (1163148) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Jun 22 01:10:21 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by North-Easten T/O on Thu Jun 21 12:47:46 2012. The point you still missed is that the union asks for a 30% raise, and the TA demands prepackaged picks, ZPTO and the 5th week of vacation back. A fluff demand whether or not you like it is always going to be there. Uniforms are another pawn piece. My engineer's uniform consists of black work jeans and polos of which I can choose the shirt colors. I chose dark colored shirts of which I can do in one load weekly instead of getting 5 short sleeves that need bleach separate from blue slacks like yours. One less load a week, 15 to 20 gallons per load, thats a lot of water not doing those shitty white shirts that aren't after your first BIE. I'd still give uniforms up to wear a nice flannel shirt during Winter and golf shirts for Summer if I could. I want to be comfortable. I seen those new shoes they are making you wear. I pay for my Redwings because my feet are important to me. The cheap off the truck free shoes I got for free last year went right into the dumpster after the first week of use. Anything you buy for work use is tax deductable. Its nice to have the choice instead of the leash. The point is keep em if you want em, but offer them back and keep the contract you signed. If they think you guys are happy they haven't taken back enough. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jun 22 01:34:40 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by J trainloco on Thu Jun 21 18:50:06 2012. These G.O.s often require a lot of transfers and backriding to get around the detour, pretty tough to explain all of that over a train PA. More platform personell to personally speak with customers is the best way to alleviate that. Automation is safe until the inevitable breakdown or crisis in the system. ZPTO is dangerous and not possible in most of the NYCTS and you know it.Many I've met from the so-called white collar side of the TA seem to feel as you do, but I don't understand it and if they spent a week in the shoes of the people they feel shouldn't be working, they might change their tune. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Jun 22 01:56:04 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jun 22 01:34:40 2012. Automation is safe until the inevitable breakdown or crisis in the system.And somehow, Vancouver SkyTrain and Docklands Light Railway manage not to be a deathtrap that perpetually fails... ZPTO is dangerous and not possible in most of the NYCTS and you know it Somehow, the French have managed to take a line that's four years older than the original IRT and automate it. To argue that ZPTO is magically dangerous and impossible in NYCTA is rather questionable at best. It may be expensive in a capital sense, but it's certainly it's within the realm of attainable engineering. |
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| (1163160) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 22 03:26:51 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Jun 22 01:56:04 2012. And somehow, Vancouver SkyTrain and Docklands Light Railway manage not to be a deathtrap that perpetually failsYou're not on them every day, so stop talking. And you forget that the culture outside the USA remains more tolerant of extra maintenance no matter the cost to the public or to society (the financial crisis started in Europe). To argue that ZPTO is magically dangerous and impossible in NYCTA is rather questionable at best. It may be expensive in a capital sense, but it's certainly it's within the realm of attainable engineering It's not worth it. A robot cannot ascertain an emergency. |
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| (1163165) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 22 07:02:41 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Jun 22 01:34:40 2012. These G.O.s often require a lot of transfers and backriding to get around the detour,pretty tough to explain all of that over a train PA.True enough. But it's also not difficult to announce that a certain train isn't running. Automation is safe until the inevitable breakdown or crisis in the system. ZPTO is dangerous and not possible in most of the NYCTS and you know it. Most systems are engineered to fail-safe. Automation is currently in place on the L, and will spread throughout the system soon enough. At the very least, the need for 2 man crews is going to become superfluous, if it already hasn't. Many I've met from the so-called white collar side of the TA seem to feel as you do,but I don't understand it and if they spent a week in the shoes of the people they feel shouldn't be working,they might change their tune. The issue here is that many systems around the world have proven that you can operate a system safely and more efficiently with fewer operational personnel. I've spent a lot of time working in the field, and I can definitely say that there is a lot of room for MTA to become more efficient with the deployment of their front-line workforce, as they have been doing with administrative/technical staff. |
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| (1163178) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Fri Jun 22 09:02:58 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Jun 22 01:10:21 2012. You know what, keep dreaming we are NOT getting a 30% raise and you know we won't get even close to that. I just be more then happy for them to pay for my uniforms, so I don't have to pay for anything extra. As for the shoes we are not getting from them anymore. The contract has been cancelled, I call the store myself. Yes I would rather get my own shoes that I like, but until they tell other wise I will keep wearing them. As for a Tax deduction, you don't get all the money you put in back. I think my accountant told me it's more 20% at the most. I take the leash, over getting my own stuff. Thank. |
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| (1163231) | |
Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Jun 22 15:27:44 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jun 22 03:26:51 2012. You're not on them every day, so stop talking.Coincidentally, neither are you. FWIW, I've had family members who have lived in Vancouver and London on a medium term basis and neither have had any complaints about either operation. And you forget that the culture outside the USA remains more tolerant of extra maintenance no matter the cost to the public or to society (the financial crisis started in Europe). And yet, you're the first one to complain about New Jersey Transit trashing what you deem to be perfectly viable rolling stock to purchase newer equipment. Either you get properly maintained equipment and rolling stock that doesn't ride like shit and has some degree of longevity performance, or you go with the American approach where you let everything go to pot and then rely on inconsistent funding to keep the entire thing operating. It's not worth it. A robot cannot ascertain an emergency. On the other hand, an employee at central control aided with cameras and sensors can determine and an emergency and implement a mitigation plan with the under proper supervision and with first responders. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Sat Jun 23 03:47:15 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 22 07:02:41 2012. Most systems are engineered to fail-safe. Automation is currently in place on the L, and will spread throughout the system soon enough. At the very least, the need for 2 man crews is going to become superfluous, if it already hasn't.Fail-safe if not properly maintained will still result in a fail, look at WAMATA's incident. When working as designed, the L's CBTC seems to work well and is popular with most of the crews who are there daily. But the attempt a few years back to implement OPTO part-time on the L was a failure. I don't know if trying it again with heavier and growing ridership will make any difference. It may even be difficult to maintain OPTO on the G or Rock Park Shuttles in the future if development brings a need for greater service and full length trains to those lines. The issue here is that many systems around the world have proven that you can operate a system safely and more efficiently with fewer operational personnel. I've spent a lot of time working in the field, and I can definitely say that there is a lot of room for MTA to become more efficient with the deployment of their front-line workforce, as they have been doing with administrative/technical staff. I didn't mean to belittle your experience in the field if I did. I'm sure they will eventually, I still question whether the results will be the same here as they have been in those other systems. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 23 06:31:32 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Broadway Buffer on Sat Jun 23 03:47:15 2012. The attempt to implement OPTO part time on the L was not a failure.Rather, it was clearly a contract violation. The contract states that OPTO is for short trains only. It also states that OPTO is for no more than a passenger load of 50% over the seated load which means if each car has 50 seats, there there can be no more than 25 standees. How many times has this rule been violated? Just ride the Franklin Shuttle in the AM rush. The G may get "hairy" with weekend OPTO soon as Mc Carren Park pool reopens next week. If the passengers coming home get disorderly on the weekend you have one worker dealing with multitudes of pulled cords. It happens. NYCT has not strived to expand OPTO contracturally. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Railman718 on Sat Jun 23 10:13:05 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by J trainloco on Fri Jun 22 07:02:41 2012. Most systems are engineered to fail-safe.Agree but sometimes chit happens.. Automation is currently in place on the L Not is not ATO=Atuomatic Train operation Means Doors as well who opens the doors? and will spread throughout the system soon enough. Stop drinking the Kool Aide and think for a sec, they cant even Trust ATS for a single track G.O.. Have you been out along the Queens Blvd Lines past Jackson Heights? Im for System upgrades and the future but lets do it the right way not the TA way which has been the Expensive way.. At the very least, the need for 2 man crews is going to become superfluous, if it already hasn't. Sorry to bust yer bubble but not full time in this city anytime soon.. |
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Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed} |
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Posted by Goumba Tony on Tue Jul 10 07:20:43 2012, in response to Re: Time for labor to sacrifice / MTA unions must do fair share — Lhota {Op-Ed}, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jun 19 19:57:09 2012. One has to be pretty desperate and really hate the road to become a TSS, ATD, or TD today.I did it because I listened to those who told me it was a great move. Man, I wish I had stuck with my gut feeling, but meh... TD title is broadbanded to include yard dispatcher, 2 completely different disciplines. Bill, you forget to mention the fact that the training for the combined title is also a few days LESS than that of training for the non-broadband TD and YD. A Train Dispatcher for 3 years get paid a lower hourly wage than the t/o's and c/'s he supervises. Not to mention the fact those in the IRT have the added benefit of doing the Tower Operator's job as well now. However, one must look at the bright side, they make more than the Car Cleaners (right now, anyway) :) |
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