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Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010 I'm jealous! One train after the other!It's old so sorry if this is a repost. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 21:41:17 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. Oui. Ils courent des trains là. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 22:07:46 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 21:41:17 2010. According to babelfish: "Yes. They run of the trains there."I'm reading some other forums with info, pics, and video regarding the RER and the Metro and headways in Europe are on another level even compared to NYC. This is from 2006, but look how many people the Metro moves on these short lines: 1-- + 4% --165,921,408 -- 16.6 km 2-- + 1.5% -- 95,945,503 -- 12.3 km 3-- + 2% -- 91,655,659 -- 11.7 km + 1.3 km 4-- + 2% -- 155,348,608 -- 10.6 km 5-- + 2% -- 92,778,870 -- 14.6 km 6-- + 1% -- 104,102,370 -- 13.6 km 7-- + 2% -- 121,341,833 -- 22.4 km + 3.1 km 8-- + 1.5% -- 92,041,135 -- 22.1 km 9-- + 1% -- 119,885,878 -- 19.6 km 10- - 1% -- 40,411,341 -- 11.7 km 11- + 4% -- 46,854,797 -- 6.3 km 12- + 5% -- 81,409,421 -- 13.9 km 13- + 4% -- 114,821,166 -- 22.5 km 14- + 10% -- 62,469,502 -- 7.9 km |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 22:09:55 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 22:07:46 2010. Oui! Yes, they run trains there, and people USE them too. :)If you've ever had to navigate the streets of Paris (nevermind the taxis) it's the only safe way to get anywhere there ... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 22:15:12 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 22:09:55 2010. I went to Paris once and traveled all over by Metro. My buddies hated it, but I loved it! But I was younger then and didn't appreciate the city like I would now. I want to go back. In fact I could move there...cept I don't speak French... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 23:05:38 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 22:15:12 2010. Parisiens can be fairly nasty if you don't at least *try* to. Once you make an effort though, they tend to want to help you out, if for no other reason than to get you to stop murdering the language. :) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 23:12:24 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 23:05:38 2010. True. They have no use for people that don't at least attempt to address them in French and they really have no use for Americans that do it! |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Feb 8 00:25:59 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 23:05:38 2010. On my all too brief time in Paris I actually had pretty good experiences with the natives. Only one rude vendor at a crepe stand yelled at me, and then it was because I was staring at the lights on the Eiffel tower instead of paying attention to the line (and then he yelled at me in German). On the Metro Line 1 back from LaDefense I had a guy start talking animatedly and motioning to my camera. I had no clue, but his friend told me to keep it hidden under my coat because it wasn't a good neighborhood. |
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Re:(LINK Please) Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Danny at 103rd street on Mon Feb 8 00:26:18 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. Do you have a Link for this Video I cant View them in my Computer from Subchat |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 00:36:03 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by WillD on Mon Feb 8 00:25:59 2010. They're very warm and nice generally ... but like NYC, there's a certain rudeness towards the ubiquitous tourists. Heh. But open up and give French a bit of an effort and they REALLY turn on the "nice" to you. That was what I meant ... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Mon Feb 8 00:36:46 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. wow that is amazing |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Greg_UWS on Mon Feb 8 01:00:55 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 21:41:17 2010. "Ils courent des trains la." Well, no. Maybe: " Y a pas mal de trains la." (Slang, roughly, "No shortage of trains there."But definitely an 'A' for trying, Selly. I know. Haven't posted for a while. Not in NYC at present. Long story... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 09:33:04 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. Line 4 headway is even shorter with a train every 1min 35sec during peak.I once said "I'm frequency spoiled" to Olog and Chris GP38 in some thread comparing the frequency of the 6 train to Paris, London and Tokyo. This is it. While the video was shot at the latest extension of line 1, it's the oldest line dating back to 1900, yet has had ATO since 1972. It can be done right if it's done right. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 09:35:53 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 09:33:04 2010. This is supposed to be the shortest headway in Paris at every 90 seconds. The trains arrived after 100 seconds, 85 sec, and 85 sec. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by ebtmikado on Mon Feb 8 10:57:10 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. Wow! Just like Cleveland! Lee |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 11:37:34 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 09:35:53 2010. Let me double check. They may have upgraded the line's ATO since I was last there. For over thirty years, it was 105 seconds for line 1 and 95 seconds for line 4. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 8 12:29:40 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. I'd dreamed of placing a minicam with a timestamp at a train station to record data, after I froze on an early morning escapade a fortnight ago. The only thing that has stops me is the realization that such an unauthorized tie wrapped item in a station would cause a bomb scare. This youtube video gives me a hint of what arm chair data collection should be.This video saw 4 trains arrive and depart in 5 1/2 minutes. The average headway (between door openings) was 88.67 seconds with a standard deviation of 9.61 seconds. That comes out to 40 tph. The average dwell time was 35.67 seconds with a standard deviation of 8.39 seconds. The standard deviations as a percentage of the mean are far lower than what I've observed for TA operations. The average braking time (time from when train first enters station to when doors open) was 14 seconds with a standard deviation of 1 second. These are within the experimental errors of using youtube's elapsed timer as my time standard. My guess is that some form of ATO is used to get repeatability like that. Unfortunately, the camera panned away from the track and missed the departure of the second train. I would have liked to have calculated the headway as measured by train departure. If the ATS corrects the departure to keep schedule, then I would expect that the standard deviation of the departure headway would be tighter than the arrival headway. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by artenn3164 on Mon Feb 8 13:51:31 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 22:09:55 2010. Keep in mind that most lines in Paris use 5 car IRT dimension trains - 3 motors and 2 trailers. Line 1 uses 6 |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 14:12:04 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 09:35:53 2010. Ok, Wiki, RATP and STIF all seem to agree that the current minimum interval of line 1 is 105 seconds. When ZPTO will be introduced, it will be 90 seconds with capability of doing 85 seconds.Line 4's minimum interval is now 105 seconds, according to RATP. I guess they can always go back to 95 seconds if needed. Line 13's southern terminus, Chatillion-Montrouge has had an automated relay system installed in 2008 and its minimum interval is 95 seconds, capable of 90 seconds. The line branches out on the northern end so no need for the automated relay system on that end. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Fytton on Mon Feb 8 15:44:08 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 8 12:29:40 2010. 'Unfortunately, the camera panned away from the track and missed the departure of the second train.'You can *hear* the second train departing, however. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by D to E to Jamaica on Mon Feb 8 16:22:28 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Fytton on Mon Feb 8 15:44:08 2010. and the trains were being fumigated to boot. I"d like to see that at 71-continental in the pm. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 16:50:11 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Greg_UWS on Mon Feb 8 01:00:55 2010. Mercy boocups! Babelfish suce ... :)Where have you been? Mon adresse est en haut ... actually, threw that in there to torture Zman since you've been gone so long. Hope life is somewhat sane for you - I ca certainly understand the desire to not be feeding sharks. Heh. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 8 17:15:44 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Fytton on Mon Feb 8 15:44:08 2010. You can *hear* the second train departing, however.There's enough uncertainty in relating the sound to the first motion of the train for me not to rely on such a measurement. Remember, the standard deviation for arrivals was around 9 sec and I'm hoping to find something significantly less. I really want to avoid any variations due to data taking. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 8 19:22:22 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. What's also amazing is how full each train is, at a terminus no less. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Feb 8 20:09:25 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 8 19:22:22 2010. What's also amazing is how full each train is, at a terminus no less.La Défense is the de facto business district of Paris. Think of Battery Park City, but considerably larger* with only one subway line feeding it... *Or, BPC + the Exchange Place/Newport district on Jersey side of the Hudson... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:00:27 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 16:50:11 2010. Consider Zman tortured.Boocups, uh boy :) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:03:14 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 7 23:05:38 2010. Parisiens can be fairly nasty if you don't at least *try* to. Once you make an effort though, they tend to want to help you out...That is true, though the Parisians will give you a pass if you admit up front that you cannot speak the language rather than speak to them directly in English as if their language doesn't exist. That's an excellent way to get the ol' Parisian 'tude. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:05:21 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by WillD on Mon Feb 8 00:25:59 2010. I had no clue, but his friend told me to keep it hidden under my coat because it wasn't a good neighborhood.The #1 doesn't go through any areas that would be considered rough. That guy was pulling your leg. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:07:12 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 00:36:03 2010. They're very warm and nice generally ... but like NYC, there's a certain rudeness towards the ubiquitous tourists. Heh. But open up and give French a bit of an effort and they REALLY turn on the "nice" to you.That is 100% true. I was surprised when I was expecting the worst and received warm and fuzzy instead. The warm and fuzzy could have been mold, but it was nice nonetheless. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 22:00:22 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 14:12:04 2010. That can't be. You can time it and see that it averages every 90 seconds more or less. The thread where I saw this video claimed (in post 127) that lines 1 and 14 operate 90 second headways at rush hour while all of the other lines operate 105 seconds. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 22:56:39 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:03:14 2010. Absolutement ... :) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 23:00:17 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:07:12 2010. Heh. Better than when the warm and fuzzy is the fromage. :) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 8 23:01:53 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:00:27 2010. It can't always be about the pick ya know. Heh. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 23:31:51 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 22:00:22 2010. Line 10 and 11's interval never go under 120 seconds so I don't know where the "all of the other lines" comes from. Line 14 now does 90 seconds (not when I rode it yet), but it's ZPTO and designed so from the beginning.Anyway, the official figure is 105 seconds for line 1. I went through enough pdfs on RATP's site. No mention of recent changes and certainly not 90 seconds in 2007 when the video was posted. A study from Oct. 2008 about the automation says "currently 1m45s". IIRC, the terminal configuration and driver-started ATO relay will only allow 100 seconds at best and that's for delay recovery. Driverless automation of the line has been delayed to 2012, BTW. It could have been after a delay in service and since this is at the last stop of the line before the relay, where there are no departure timer, it's not impossible to temporarily have a shorter headway. But all departing trains at all stations will be held if arriving too early by the departure timer. Mind you, we are talking about ten to fifteen seconds in difference. It is easy to speed up the video without looking unnatural too. I tend to trust current RATP's documents than posts made on Skyscrapercity too. And even at 105 seconds, I'd say it's impressive. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 23:37:38 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Zman179 on Mon Feb 8 21:05:21 2010. The only stop I can remotely think of would be Nation, my old home stop. :) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Green over Green on Mon Feb 8 23:49:29 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. I like how the doors start to open before the train has come to a complete stop. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Feb 8 23:53:44 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Green over Green on Mon Feb 8 23:49:29 2010. I like how the doors start to open before the train has come to a complete stop.If something like that happens here and its seen and reported the C/R is out of service in a nano second.. If its a tech or any train with an enabler the T/O is out of service as well... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 8 23:56:40 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by D to E to Jamaica on Mon Feb 8 16:22:28 2010. That would be nice, I think its probably possible, but I'm assuming they'd have to change work rules to get that done. I also noticed that the doors opened before the train came to a complete stop. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 23:58:41 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Feb 8 23:31:51 2010. Well you have to admit that the thread is informative even if it's not accurate. ;)I guess that he could have sped up the video and the person in the thread that posted it just timed it to get 90 seconds. Reading that thread makes me think that Paris has by far the best metro and commuter trains outside of Asia and not nearly as far behind Tokyo as I would have thought. It's very interesting to learn about the RER and Metro. And speaking of the RER, after reading that thread BART sounds much more like the RER than I thought previously. If anything the RER is more rapid transit-like than BART. WMATA is similar as well, but more rapid transit-like than the RER. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 8 23:59:57 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Railman718 on Mon Feb 8 23:53:44 2010. Is it that serious though? (Rules wise yes, but im asking in reality) |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue Feb 9 00:06:59 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 8 23:59:57 2010. Is it that serious though? (Rules wise yes, but im asking in reality)Anything operational wise that jeopardizes the safety of the customers is very very serious... Heck anything that breaks the rules in general.... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Feb 9 00:11:50 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Green over Green on Mon Feb 8 23:49:29 2010. On some of the older trains the riders have to pull a lever to open each individual door once the driver has enabled themParis metro is one of my favorite. The newer cars like the ones on the 14 are articulated and the train feels wide open and airy vs nyc cramped Stations are dirtier than NYC when I was there in 2001 |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Tue Feb 9 00:16:07 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Green over Green on Mon Feb 8 23:49:29 2010. Having the door open prior to the stop was common in the UK when they had passenger operated doors instaled in first generation EMUs. No numbers on injuries but the practice persisted for a number of years. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Feb 9 00:16:20 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. That's interesting. It looks like the last stop, as no one gets on, and no one is left on the train as it leaves. If that's the case, maybe NYCT can try this at Continental. Right? |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Feb 9 00:21:24 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Railman718 on Tue Feb 9 00:06:59 2010. I've been on elevators where the doors open while the car is still leveling out, its not particularly dangerous if the doors are not wide enough for the person to step out while the car is still moving at a slow speed for a short distance. I believe they were programmed like that intentionally speed up service. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Feb 9 00:25:06 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Feb 9 00:21:24 2010. True. I think that the doors on this line open automatically so if there were an incident it's not the operators fault. |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Feb 9 00:27:25 2010, in response to Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 7 21:27:24 2010. What type of terminal is this station? Is there a loop beyond the platform? |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Feb 9 01:02:30 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Feb 9 00:27:25 2010. Looks like long tail tracks and no loop.
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Feb 9 01:27:01 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by Easy on Mon Feb 8 23:58:41 2010. And speaking of the RER, after reading that thread BART sounds much more like the RER than I thought previously.I've generally considered BART to be a half-assed, Americanized S-Bahn which is a RER, but not on steroids... WMATA is similar as well, but more rapid transit-like than the RER. I was going to prattle on about how WMATA is different because it's doesn't share trackage with the national railway network like RER, but given the nature of the Ile-de-France and the DC Metro area, I'd argue that WMATA is a "subway", but RER functions as a near-subway equivalent for the inner-suburbs of Paris which are rather urban by American standards. Sadly, New York City ended up with the segregated IND and commuter networks instead of a RER or S-Bahn like network... |
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Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Feb 9 01:36:10 2010, in response to Re: Video showing Paris Metro Line 1 headway, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Feb 9 01:27:01 2010. The RER is definitely on steroids. RER A is 67 total miles and has over 1 million passengers per weekday. More than LIRR, MNRR, and NJT combined! |
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