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Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009

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This week I was on vacation in south Florida. We were staying at a beach resort in Ft. Lauderdale. On Weds., May 13, my last day before traveling on to Tampa, I decided to treat myself to a day of railfanning in Miami. I parked at the TriRail station at Sheridan St., and took TriRail into the city. I then transferred to Metrorail. After a day of railfanning, I was waiting for a n/b Metrorail train at Government Center and took a photo of an approaching s/b train from the north end of the n/b platform, as it gives a good view of the People Mover below. At this time, I was approached by a well-dressed young man who demanded to know "what I was taking pictures of." I told him frankly that I was taking pictures of the train, and asked him what business is it of his.

He then stated that he was Chief of Security & Safety for Metrorail, and that I could not take any photos of Metrorail trains or stations w/o having an access permit. I explained that I was a tourist and was on my way back to Ft. Lauderdale. Furthermore, I said I didn't see the need for a permit at all, since photography is a legal activity. I mentioned that in other cities, transit systems have realized this and have dropped their restrictions on photography.

He kept insisting that I could not take pictures. When I asked him the reason, he wouldn't answer the question, and when I brought up the issue of constitutional rights, he just smirked. Even though he wasn't nasty about it, his arrogant smirk really set me off, and I told him that I was going to file a complaint. I asked for his name. He told me his name is Eric Muntan.

I fully intend to file a complaint and contact the Florida chapter of the ACLU, and to see if I can also get it into the local media. It's a disgrace how arrogant these tax-funded government agencies have become, thinking that they are way above the law and can push people around at will!

I would've posted this last night, but our wireless internet access was unavailable. I arrived in Tampa late this afternoon. The open "Breezer" was in the barn being serviced. With luck, it will be out tomorrow, if it doesn't rain. :-(

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(784884)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 19:13:15 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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Sorry to say, but Mr. Muntan is right according to nycsubway.org.

When I was in Miami, I tried to get said access letter, and was eventually told I could photograph but wouldn't be given a letter. I was given the name of someone for the employees who might question me to contact if there was trouble and she would clear things up for me. I had no issues however.

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(784885)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 19:20:36 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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Well, did this guy show you I.D.??? ALWAYS ASK FOR I.D.!!!

Second, the "what business is it of his" is a good way, let's say he is not a MDT employee, to get your ass kicked royally or end up in a really bad situation. Some people might be disrespected by this!! A NO NO!! If he is an employee who presented I.D., this is also a bad way to get things off, and might cause for him to summon police. Another NO NO!!

As for the complaint thing, go forward with that, but for some of the words you said, you definitely set yourself up for problems!! Be careful there!!

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(784886)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by BMTLines on Thu May 14 19:27:10 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 19:13:15 2009.

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Then the ACLU needs to file a lawsuit challenging that requirement.

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(784887)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Bingham C50 on Thu May 14 19:29:43 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by BMTLines on Thu May 14 19:27:10 2009.

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Agreed.

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(784889)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by arnine on Thu May 14 19:31:25 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by BMTLines on Thu May 14 19:27:10 2009.

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IAWTP

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(784890)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 14 19:31:41 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Bingham C50 on Thu May 14 19:29:43 2009.

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and you all could donate some $$ to the ACLU to fund this.

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(784891)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Bingham C50 on Thu May 14 19:31:41 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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File a complaint against the man for discourteous treatment, and then get a clarification on their current policy.

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(784892)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Bingham C50 on Thu May 14 19:32:05 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 14 19:31:41 2009.

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I'm a member.
:)

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(784895)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by BMTLines on Thu May 14 19:34:21 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 14 19:31:41 2009.

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They successfully fought the MBTA, NJT and New York's MTA on the issue of photo bans and permit requirements. They just need to gather complaints so they can build a case against Metrorail as well.

For the record I am a member of both the ACLU and the NYCLU and I joined BECAUSE of the photo issue.

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(784898)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by f179dj on Thu May 14 19:45:24 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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ROTFLMAO. Good old Eric. He used to work for the TA in the Office of System Safety. Man, can he swagger; thinks he's God's gift to humanity. LOL.

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(784908)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 14 20:13:04 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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Don't go to the commies. They don't want to help you.

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(784910)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:16:15 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 19:20:36 2009.

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<< Well, did this guy show you I.D.??? ALWAYS ASK FOR I.D.!!! >>

As far as I.D., he was wearing it around his neck.

<< Second, the 'what business is it of his'is a good way, let's say he is not a MDT employee, to get your ass kicked royally or end up in a really bad situation. Some people might be disrespected by this!! A NO NO!! If he is an employee who presented I.D., this is also a bad way to get things off, and might cause for him to summon police. Another NO NO!! As for the complaint thing, go forward with that, but for some of the words you said, you definitely set yourself up for problems!! Be careful there!! >>

First of all, when someone is in my face, not asking but DEMANDING what I am doing, my reaction in that case is to return attitude for attitude! I can take care of myself pretty well. I'm not a wimp, and am not going to walk away with my tail b/t my legs when I haven't done anything wrong. I grew up in the South Bronx, on Freeman St. & Bryant Ave., in the 1950s, and if you were a wimp, you might as well not venture out on the street!

Mr. Muntan was acting like an arrogant, smart-ass jerk, and other people who were around asked me, "Who is that guy, and what is his problem?" I will include that in my complaint as well!

I am not the type of man who starts confrontations. I'm a peaceful person and resent anyone who thinks that they can push other people around.

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(784911)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:22:10 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:16:15 2009.

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Well, then go forward with the complaint!! No excuse for being an asshole on the part of any employee. He was out of line, there are ways employees can approach people without coming off like a total dick. And he should know better himself to approach someone like that because he himself can get a royal asskicking, he should know that!! Not everyone stays peaceful as you did, and I commend you for that!! And in no way did I imply you were a wimp or coward, so don;t take what I said that way I didn't mean it as such.

Do the complaint, and see what happens. Follow up!!!

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(784912)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 20:22:43 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 19:20:36 2009.

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no, HarryP did nothing wrong. as usual, you focus on the victim instead of the agressor.

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(784919)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:41:11 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 19:13:15 2009.

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<< When I was in Miami, I tried to get said access letter, and was eventually told I could photograph but wouldn't be given a letter. I was given the name of someone for the employees who might question me to contact if there was trouble and she would clear things up for me. I had no issues however. >>

With a few exceptions, trying to obtain permits or access to photorgraph transit systems is a complete waste of time. Just try getting one from PATH! The only way things are going to change is by legal action and shaming them in the media.

Remember this: Most transit agencies are political organizations and hate to be shown in a bad light.



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(784920)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:41:21 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 20:22:43 2009.

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Why don't you read all posts and responses I made regarding this incident before shooting off your mouth!!!! No one focused on any one person, the focuses were made on both parties involved. Both did something wrong which could have escalated this into something more negative and possibly dangerous, the guy approached HarryP all wrong, and the comment HarryP made as a response was no more productive.

So SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Brian!! Mouth shut please!!

"Engage the brain before engaging the mouth!!" - Mr. Ukaegbu, 10th Grade Math Teacher, East New York Transit Tech High School, 1993...smart man!!

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(784921)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:42:52 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:41:11 2009.

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This permit thing is so absurd!! Give employee contact info, but not a simple letter!! What a crock!! lol

Gotta love the railroad/transit bigs at some of these agencies!! :-p

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(784923)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 20:44:32 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:41:21 2009.

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Why don't you read all posts and responses I made regarding this incident before

I did...

and the comment HarryP made as a response was no more productive.

Um, as I just said, HarryP did nothing wrong. So...

Mouth shut please!!

No. And I will continue to point out when you are incorrect.

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(784925)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 20:48:36 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:41:11 2009.

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It didn't take a significant amount of time (under 30 minutes once I was in Miami, plus a bit of preliminary prep from home before traveling).

If a transit system doesn't allow photography or restricts it, taking photos isn't going to magically make photography legal. Contacting the ACLU is one way to fight such rules, but until the rules are changed, employees who challenge you are technically in the right whether we like it or not and are usually just doing their jobs.

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(784926)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:51:28 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 20:44:32 2009.

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Where am I incorrect????????> Again, same issue as always with an imbecile like you, no proof!! Where was I wrong??? I addressed what BOTH did wrong, and what could have been done better on both sides. It is called 50/50 impartial, BOTH (meaning 2, dual, more than one less than three, dos, doble, TWO) were wrong, and we all know what HarryP did was not wrong or illegal. But words mean a lot, and attitudes and comments can make a war our of nothing!! BOTH WERE RIGHT.....the guy doing his job, Harry defending that what he did was not illegal or wrong, both were also WRONG...the attitude of the employee and the counterproductive response comment HarryP made. It is a double negative. I see I have to be kindergarten level detailed so you can understand and help you to stop coming up with comments and accusations and implications that again are based on your ability to not adhere to facts or present any proof to back anything you say up!!

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Silencio, por favor!!

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(784927)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Railman718 on Thu May 14 20:54:03 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 20:48:36 2009.

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Thats why before i went out West i knew i was going to Railfan the San Deigo trolley i made sure that there was no ban on photography taking..

I still got told by MTS security about no photo taking..

I made a thread about it in OT Chat..

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(784928)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:55:15 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 20:48:36 2009.

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Agreed, totally with this post!! But the employee's approach was out of line, as was HarryP's response, but understandable when someone comes off in your face right off and started demanding stuff. Both were right, and both were wrong in this situation. Attitudes were the prevailing issue, with the employee being the initiator, which was totally unprofessional and out of line, but then again, we do not know what happened because we did not witness anything, so who is to say what the truth is!! I can not say HarryP lied, but I cannot say at the same time if the full truth was told either.

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(784930)

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No Photo Permit Needed in Miami (Was: Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:04:21 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 19:13:15 2009.

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Sorry to say, but Mr. Muntan is right according to nycsubway.org.


No, Eric Muntan was WRONG, and so is NYCsubway.org (just like Wikipedia, nycsubway.org can have mistakes).

If I've said it once, I've said it one thousand times:

AFAIK, THE ONLY U.S. TRANSIT PROPERTY WITH RESTRICTIVE AMATEUR PHOTOGRAPHY REGULATIONS THAT ARE EVEN REMOTELY POSSIBLY LEGAL IS PATH.

And in a separate category is the Pentagon Station on WMATA (it's a DoD regulation, not a WMATA regulation).

So besides on PATH, feel free to photograph to your heart's content, as long as you follow all other legal, posted rules on the transit system and the local municipality.

Every time someone here or some transit authority makes the claim that amateur photography is restricted, I have been able to prove them wrong. MIAMI is no different.

I visited MIAMI in 2007. I went there for the expressed purpose of railfanning the heck out of it, and taking many photos. So I did my research before I took my trip, and brought all the relevant proff with me. Turns out I didn't need it, but I had it all just in case. I had no problems.

My proff was printouts of the Miami-Dade County film permit rules, and the Miami-Dade Transit Authority filming regulations. I also printed out the TRANSIT AGENCY RULES AND REGULATIONS from the Municipal Code which further backed up the fact that there are no restrictions on amateur photography.

These three documents were PDF'ed from the web back in 2007 and I am more than happy to email them to anyone who would like them.

Once again, in summary, by default, there are no restrictions on amateur photography in public. "In public" includes publicly accessible portions of transportation authority property and vehicles. Every time I read some here saying something like "Does anyone know if there are problems with photography on such and such a transit system?", I cringe, because that means your of the mindset that photography might be illegal, and that we have to go out of our way to find that out. No. If it is going to be illegal or restricted, then the transit authority better make that PRETTY DAMN WELL CLEAR in a normal way, like on their website, or on signs in the system. You don't need to look for something that is by default LEGAL.

Take Pride,
Terrapin Station


Now featuring the RailfanWindow.com Blog!



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(784931)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:05:28 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by BMTLines on Thu May 14 19:27:10 2009.

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No need, since there are no legal restrictions.

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(784932)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:05:45 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Bingham C50 on Thu May 14 19:29:43 2009.

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But there are no legal restrictions...

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(784934)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:08:26 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 20:41:11 2009.

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With a few exceptions, trying to obtain permits or access to photorgraph transit systems is a complete waste of time.

There's only one system that requires it, and you know what it is. So permits are a non-issue for > 98% of transit system photography.

Just try getting one from PATH!

Have you? I tried, but I wanted it on a holiday and they said they had no one to take me around that day. But I haven't tried it on a normal average weekday...

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(784935)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:08:51 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:55:15 2009.

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as was HarryP's response,

No, it was not out of line.

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(784937)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:11:57 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:55:15 2009.

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as was HarryP's response,

No, it was not out of line.

we do not know what happened because we did not witness anything, so who is to say what the truth is!! I can not say HarryP lied, but I cannot say at the same time if the full truth was told either.

There you go again, not believing the victim! WTF??? When has HarryP ever lied to us? Is HarryP not a valued member of the board? Is HarryP not well versed in photographers' rights? How many times has HarryP been arrested and convicted of illegal photography or any crime? Is HarryP not a prolific transit photographer? So why are you putting HarryP and the aggressor on the same level? Why doesn't HarryP deserve the benefit of the doubt here?

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(784940)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:14:07 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 20:51:28 2009.

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Where am I incorrect????????

For the third time, HarryP did nothing wrong. His responses were appropriate for the situation, as described.

Silencio, por favor!!

No, and as I already told you, I will keep pointing out when you are wrong.

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(784941)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:14:35 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:08:51 2009.

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So you think making an equally hostile approach will solve anything here??

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(784942)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:15:28 2009, in response to Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by HarryP on Thu May 14 19:04:28 2009.

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I'm sorry to hear what happened. Luckily it was not worse. All I can say is that whenever you visit a transit system, always have the relevant rules and regulations printed out and with you.

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(784944)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:19:03 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:14:35 2009.

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I didn't say it would solve anything, I just said it was not wrong. And there was no hostile approach by HarryP.

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(784946)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Nilet on Thu May 14 21:22:13 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:08:26 2009.

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Don't bother.

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(784947)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:22:43 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:11:57 2009.

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If I wanted to say I didn't believe someone, those on here who know me personally know I am damn sure bluntly outspoken enough to say it straight. AT NO POINT DID I SAY I DIDN'T BELIEVE HIM!! WHAT I SAID WAS THAT NO ONE OTHER THAN THE PARTIES INVOLVED AND GOD KNOW HOW THIS UNFOLDED!! I recognize BOTH said things that made this a negative encounter, and I did say a number of times if you bothered to read it, that the employee who initiated this did so very much unprofessionally and in a very out of line manner. Please, calm your overjealousness to jump to conclusions and read and understand things in full, and refrain from implication!! You only make yourself look stupid, and from what I see on here (SubChat), you sure make a good career out of doing just that!!

For the record again, for the mentally and visually challenged......

HarryP was wrong for the response, two wrongs don't make a right.....

The employee was totally out of line to confront someone in that manner, there are such things as professionalism!! Not to mention huffing and puffing at someone, the wrong person, could have brought about serious consequences upon the employee, and I don't mean foul words. BOTH WERE WRONG!!! BOTH....WERE....WRONG!!! Both could have used different, more constructive approaches.

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(784948)

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:23:48 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Nilet on Thu May 14 21:22:13 2009.

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I know about your ordeal. However I'm not convinced that your experiences are typical. That goes for pretty much everything you do. Sorry.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Thu May 14 21:25:08 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:14:07 2009.

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His responses were appropriate for the situation, as described.

Not if HarryP noticed the guy's employee ID around his neck as he stated in another post. Asking "what business is it of yours?" to an employee of the agency is not a good thing to say. That could be perceived as being disrespectful, as Paul previously mentioned. I would have said something like "is there anything wrong?", which are words that would not have personally attacked the employee.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Nilet on Thu May 14 21:25:18 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:23:48 2009.

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*eyeroll* I suppose it must be my magic Niletness. That'll teach me to name my handle after a made-up railroad that doesn't allow photography. :(

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:26:02 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:22:43 2009.

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No, again, you are not giving HarryP the benefit of the doubt, which he most definitely deserves. That is where you are wrong. You are also wrong for thinking that HarryP did anything at all that was wrong.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Railman718 on Thu May 14 21:28:42 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:22:43 2009.

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Paul give it up....

You both have different viwes on said matter call it a stalemate..

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:29:09 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Thu May 14 21:25:08 2009.

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There's no law against being disrespectful to someone who is disrespecting you. He did not identify himself as an employee with authorization to conduct such an investigation. Furthermore, he should not have confronted the customer directly, he should have summoned police if he thought the situation was serious enough that the customer needed to be told to stop photographing.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:30:01 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Nilet on Thu May 14 21:25:18 2009.

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It must be...

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:30:17 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:14:07 2009.

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We acknowledged already railfanning and taking photos were not wrong at all, for far more than the third time here!!! What part of that don't you understand????

Again, where is anything I said wrong?? I have proven all my points, and others have too, when have you proven yours and who had supported them???

And yes, again myself and from what I have seen others will still continue to tell you to put a sock in it when you run off at your mouth with baseless, unsupported comments.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:34:05 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:30:17 2009.

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We acknowledged already railfanning and taking photos were not wrong at all, for far more than the third time here!!! What part of that don't you understand????

Don't see what that has to do with anything. Don't see why you just wrote that. Try to focus, umkay?

Again, where is anything I said wrong?? I have proven all my points, and others have too, when have you proven yours and who had supported them???

I repeated it for a third time in my post you just replied to. No need to repeat it again.

And yes, again myself and from what I have seen others will still continue to tell you to put a sock in it when you run off at your mouth with baseless, unsupported comments.

You mean when I post the truth, showing you and them to be wrong? Good for you and them. It doesn't make you and them any less wrong, or me any less right. Just makes you and them look stupid.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:34:41 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:26:02 2009.

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OK...PLEASE STATE WHERE I SAID HE DID ANYTHING WRONG OTHER THAN THE EQUALLY UNPRODUCTIVE RESPONSE?????

And plenty of benefit of the doubt is there, but as plainly noted many times before, there are two sides to every story, and only himself, the employee, and God knows what truly transpired and how it did as such. We deal in reality here, buddy, and this is it!! Try and get with the real world sometime!!!

As 5301 Fishbowl said, which supports what I said totally, he should have said something to the tune of "Hi!! Is there a problem sir??", and come out the better person in this. Being on the level of the employee is just fuel to igniting a major problem.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Thu May 14 21:44:52 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:29:09 2009.

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There's no law against being disrespectful to someone who is disrespecting you.

You are absolutely correct. However, after reading HarryP's account of the situation, I am unable to determine the extent of the employee's "disrespectfulness" towards him. For example, if the employee was raising his voice in a threatening tone, I can agree with the reaction of yelling back in a negative manner. However, if the employee just happened to say "what are you taking pictures of?" in a slightly forceful manner, then I would probably have said "who wants to know?" (a classic Caz Dolowicz line), and then after he identified himself, would have then said "just the trains, is there anything wrong?"

Since neither of us were there, we are unable to determine how any of us would have reacted to the employee. And until I learn the rank of the employee, I would treat them the same way I would treat a police officer.

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:45:14 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Railman718 on Thu May 14 21:28:42 2009.

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What's there to give up?? I see it from both sides, and anyone can see BOTH were wrong, and one wrong doesn't require another one in response. Don't you think that makes for the troubles of the world?? This is just another rant to make T.S. look stupid, while in his mind make him look right!!! And sorry buddy, if you are wrong, I am not gonna make you or let you be right. Again, BOTH parties were out of line, and I think I made that clear in all my posts!! As a rail/transit employee, I have dealt with sensitive matters I have observed more times than I could ever post about here, but one thing is certain, the attitude in which you put forth is EVERYTHING in whether the confrontation ends peacefully, or ends in another employee being possibly put in harm's way on his/her own doing. Both were wrong in this.

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Re: No Photo Permit Needed in Miami (Was: Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security)

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 14 21:46:04 2009, in response to No Photo Permit Needed in Miami (Was: Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security), posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:04:21 2009.

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Brian,

Why not then send that info to Dave so he can update his listing? I emailed Dave and Paul prior to my visit, and my experience was pretty much identical to what Paul described.

Miami's rules are no less "illegal" than PATH's in my opinion. How do you come to your conclusion?

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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Railman718 on Thu May 14 21:47:04 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:45:14 2009.

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Im not arguing the points ,made between you two it just looks like you are both set in your opinions thats all buddy..



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Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Thu May 14 21:48:37 2009, in response to Re: Harrassed in Miami by Metrorail Chief of Security, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu May 14 21:34:05 2009.

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You are the one to talk!! I see totally why you are the butt of everyone's rags on here, you are too full of yourself to read things, understand things, and when you come up with whatever silliness your brain pukes out, you have no means or proof to back it up. Spare everyone here, please!! If HarryP took what I said about this incident in the way you took it, wouldn't he be raising issues about this?? You again just wanna be right no matter, even when in reality you are wrong. This is a waste of time talking to someone and reasoning with someone who has the brainpower of a Petland budgie.

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