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| Re: Tunnel stubs (751780) | |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Thu Mar 19 00:45:09 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by gbs on Thu Mar 19 00:43:02 2009. I think, from looking at several maps, that the split happens just after the tunnel hits the shore. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 19 08:27:46 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 18 15:16:41 2009. Oh. |
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Posted by Clayton on Fri Mar 20 11:53:59 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 16:54:52 2009. Yes. One of the coolest tunnel segments there is in the subway system I think. No tunnel wall, but there is a track shelf still. Underneath a metal plate in this open space now where the tunnel wall should be is lies this pristine beauty of a tunnel. It is a fly UNDER. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 08:45:22 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Clayton on Fri Mar 20 11:53:59 2009. Is there any more bellmouths in the system? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 09:08:23 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 08:45:22 2009. Yep. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 14:59:20 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 09:08:23 2009. Like what? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 15:04:50 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 14:59:20 2009. There's the bellmounth to what would have been the Worth St. line between Spring St. and Chambers St. on the IND. You also have the 63rd St. bellmouth coming from what will (hopefully) eventually be the 2nd Ave. line south of 63rd. Add to that, there's a bellmouth to a connector to Sunnyside Yard from the 63rd St. line. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 15:09:36 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 15:04:50 2009. How far is those bellmouths go for? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 15:11:44 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 15:09:36 2009. They're pretty short. The last two are plainly visible mainly because the tunnels are relatively clean and brightly lit. The first is harder to see, but if you where to look, it's easy to spot. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 16:16:18 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 15:11:44 2009. Oh ok. Does the G line have any bellmouths? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 16:49:54 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sat Apr 25 16:16:18 2009. There is one, sort of, past Bedford-Nostrand. The middle track splits into two tracks before ending. This was supposed to be a continuation of the line along Lafayette Ave., which would have turned slightly at Stanhope St. and aligned with the Myrtle-Central Ave. line. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 00:19:29 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 16:49:54 2009. What about the R train? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 05:11:40 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 16:49:54 2009. South of 59 St/4 Ave in Brooklyn was a bellmouth supposed to go out to Staten Island.South of Whitehall St is a tunnel heading supposed to go somewhere. It has been discussed in here lately. South of 36 St/4 Ave in Brooklyn is a downward ramp supposively to connect with a West End Subway. North of 57 St/7 Ave in Manhattan was a bellmouth supposed to go up along CPW or inside Central Park to somewhere past W110 Street. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 26 09:28:52 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 05:11:40 2009. Correct on all counts. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 09:40:57 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 26 09:28:52 2009. And I'm sure there were a few places that I missed. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 12:55:46 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 09:40:57 2009. Does the IND Concourse (B/D) Line in the Bronx have any bellmouths? |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 13:03:32 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 12:55:46 2009. Someone mentioned that one of the bellmouths on the IND Queens Blvd (E/F/V/G/R) Line once had a lay-up track in it. How long ago was that track taken up? |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 15:07:47 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 13:03:32 2009. Does anyone know? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 15:17:50 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 12:55:46 2009. About a stop or 2 north of 161 St/River is a small yard.Who knows what was planned for that site? There is the trackage past 205 Street I don't think it's actually there, But there might have been plans for a connection for the S.A.S. coming from Manhattan. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 15:37:34 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Sun Apr 26 13:03:32 2009. There seems to be a track from the Jamaica bound local track between Roosevelt and Elmhurst Aves onto the Winfield route. I don't think it was ever used as a lay-up track.Further down at Woodhaven Blvd there is trackage going behind the island platforms. Maybe it was meant to make the station an express stop. There was also some talk about a subway line going out to the Island under Horace Harding/L.I.E. After Van Wyck Blvd there was 2 tracks that would have went south from there. It becasme part of the Archer Ave line. It might have been a lay-up area at one time. After 179 St the 4 tracks turn into an 8 track/2 level lay-up area. The tracks are still there. But it's interesting wondering what was planned for the location. Between Steinway and 46 Sts there was plans for a line that would have continued along Broadway, gone under the East River into Manhattan and connected with (I think) a line coming north from 6 Ave. I don't know exactly how much was built. But it was meant to be part of the IND Second System. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 16:02:15 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 15:17:50 2009. see Peter D's map on nycsubway.org. there is a sinle siding shown off the SB lcl track just N of 167. Sometime in recent years IINM, someone posted that the track and switch had been removed though presumably the tunnel still exists. From the layout it appeared to be a convenient place to park either an OOS train or non revenue equipment. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 17:16:14 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 16:02:15 2009. Maybe that wasn't a small yard after all.Thinking about it Maybe it was a convenient place to park either an OOS train or non revenue equipment. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 03:49:00 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 16:02:15 2009. At one point it was used to store a single baseball special after Yankee games. The rest of the specials were stored on C3/4. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:11:12 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 12 09:48:22 2009. R3 and R4 come together into a single tail track immediately south of the station which like all BMT/IND middle tracks is numbered R3/4. With the discussion of "railroad north" and "railroad south" the situation gets complicated at the physical south end of Chambers St. In pre Chrystie terminology, all trains passing through Bkln enroute to Manhattan regardless of point of origin were northbound. The track numberings bear this out. Prior to the completion of the Nassau Loop, all BMT trains stub ended at Chambers St. Trains from Jamaica and Metro terminated on J2 and J4 and trains from Stl terminated on J1 and J3. When the tracks to Nassau St were completed, they were given Southern Division track numbers so that trains "changed direction" leaving Chambers St without physically changing ends. J2 becomes R1 and J1 becomes R2. To complicate things further, the towerman at Broad St was an Eastern Div Tw/M so all trains he recorded arriving from Chambers St on his gap sheets were recorded as "northbound" including Culver and West End locals bound for Stillwell. With the establishment of through service fom the Eastern Div into the Southern, first the QJ and then the M, the TA decided that trains leaving Jamaica were to be considered "southbound" for their entire trip. The services not going into the Southern Division were still considered "northbound." after the M and QJ (now J) swapped southern terminals, the Broad St bound J was never changed back to a "northbound" service so the Eastern Division is the only place on the BMT/IND Division that has its tracks numbered backwards. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 27 04:24:17 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:11:12 2009. The tower boards still show North as being toward Chambers Street.Of course, the old IND towers in Queens display everything as East and West. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:28:45 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Thu Mar 19 00:45:09 2009. That's correct. The "street level" exit actually comes up into a small structure resembling a lighthouse on an artificial island that's built a few feet from the Manhattan shore. There is a short "gangplank" between the island and the shore. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:42:06 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Sun Apr 26 15:37:34 2009. On the N/B side N/O Roosevelt there is only a bellmouth. On the S/B side, however ther is a ramp comig all the way down from the upper level which reportedly had a layup track on it probably for storage when the line terminated at Roosevelt. If it hasn't been replaced with new signalling, just N/O where the switch was, there is an automatic signal D1-1415 which is atually a home ball with the lower portion's lenses covered over by the type of metal plates used to cover where the green lens would go on station approach signals. The bellmouths at woodhaven were provisions for converting the station to an express stop but I'm not sure if that extend all the way behind the station walls or not. AFAIK, The area N/O Van Wyck/Briarwood now used by the Archer Av Line never had any track in it until the Archer Av Line was constructed. from what I understand, the upper leval tracks at 179 were to continue to the city line and there have been reports that some trackage was built a few blocks beyond the bumping blocks. Maybe we'll find out after we find out the truth about 76 St. (I couldn't resist.) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 27 04:45:30 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 3 19:16:47 2009. That tunnel also has bellmouths on the Queens side. Not sure what for, but I think I read they were for some kind of connection to Sunnyside Yard or something. But they're there. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 27 04:52:19 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:28:45 2009. Wait, what? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Apr 27 05:00:48 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 04:42:06 2009. It's been a while since I've seen that bellmouth north of Roosevelt Ave. Maybe it was a turning track when Roosevelt was the last stop.I have noticed the bellmouth curves after it leaves the N/B local track. So maybe it did turn trains. aka 71 Avenue. There were plans at one time to Make Woodhaven Blvd an express stop. There was also plans to extend the IND under the LIE. Maybe it was a combination of the two. If the upper level after 179 Street was supposed to go out to the Queens/Nassau line, (Makes sence considering there is supposed to be a station in the area of Hillside/212 St) what was the lower level meant for? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 27 08:10:50 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 16:02:15 2009. You can plainly see this track from a s/b train, although it's easier to see it from the RFW. OTOH it may not be so easy through an R-68 RFW. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Apr 27 08:43:11 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 16:49:54 2009. The middle track splits into two tracks before ending. This was supposed to be a continuation of the line along Lafayette Ave.,That would have been operationally interesting... |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 27 19:49:18 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Apr 27 08:43:11 2009. AFAIK the arrangement would have allowed through service continuing up Lafayette Ave. as well as short turns at Bedford-Nostrand. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Apr 27 20:12:15 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 27 19:49:18 2009. What about Classon Avenue with that empty trackway?What do you think that was for? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 28 18:49:43 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Mon Apr 27 05:00:48 2009. The bellmouth from D2 Tk (northbound) is not long enough the have ever held a train like the one on the S/B side is. As far as 179 is concerned, since the lower level feeds off the local tracks and the upper from the express tracks, it can be inferred that the lower level was meant to function exactly as it does today, as an underground storage yard for local trains terminating there. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 28 18:54:09 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Apr 27 04:52:19 2009. Actually, the term "gangplank" is inaccurate. It is more like a narrow bridge to the shore. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:22:34 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 17:08:42 2009. The line would have gone under Fort Hamilton Avenue in a s/w direction from Prospect Park area to the Narrows then shoot over to Staten Island and hook up with B&O, SIRT or Sirtoa. Whatever you want to call it. I'm wondering if the IND connection had ideas of using the BRT planned connections? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:22:55 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Dan on Thu Mar 5 16:55:24 2009. I've heard about that bellmouth on the F line.I think it's on the express track. But I never rode the express enough to have ever noticed it. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:35:54 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:48:07 2009. The way people have been talking about the different things down here, there are stubs, spur tracks, abondoned areas ect! I'm sure there are some odds and ends we did miss.e.g. just before Atlantic Avenue on the IRT there was a single trackway that connected the IRT with the LIRR. The switches between Nevins and Atlantic are pointing to that trackway. AFAIK the trackway hasn't been used in 85+ years. It was a private track so that August Belmont could take his private subway car (The Minola) to and from Belmont race track. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:41:22 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Fri Mar 6 13:59:42 2009. Whenever I've gone exploring in the subway, I always carried a flash light. Prefered with new batteries. But I've never go past the point where I saw some light behind me. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:42:05 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Fri Mar 6 13:01:15 2009. A station supervisior told me about it. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:51:06 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Fri Mar 6 14:24:56 2009. I took a pic from the top of the stairway at Broadway Station.It was a very wide stairway. The only stairway I saw in transit that big was at the north end of Grand Central on the 4, 5 and 6. The pic didn't come out that good. It reminded me of high school drawings of the Vanishing point with alot of dust that I kicked up. My camera didn't have enough flash to see anything after a few feet away. Maybe if I find the photos and scan them onto a CD, MAYBE I can coax an image of SOMETHING. |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Tue Apr 28 19:56:37 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:51:06 2009. Oh, ok. Cool! |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:59:50 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Fri Mar 6 14:28:22 2009. There was a way to get a glimpse of the upper level platforms.From the east booth, you walk down the ramp as if you're getting on the A or C. You go thru the gate and there was this big white tiled wall. Against the wall was a single door with ventalation slots on it. I looked thru the hole in the door and found I was behind a door on track level looking up to the station. The station was pitch black. With the flashlight I saw grey walls and columes. Either unpainted and untiled or it was really dusty. I'd say the station was as long as Fulton Street from northern to southern curb |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Tue Apr 28 20:05:59 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 19:59:50 2009. I thought the station shell was well lit? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 20:08:20 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 10 17:51:11 2009. I couldn't tell if Utica Ave Upper had any entrances beside the 2 currently on the A line. From the overpass there were 2 stairways going down to the unused station. And 4 stairways from the unused station to the A line. If anything the 4 stairways going to the A platforms were temporary at best. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 20:11:25 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by MattW@15st_prospect_park on Fri Mar 13 03:01:27 2009. If you do get to explore the station,bring a camera with you and take alot of pics! |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 20:13:49 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Apr 28 19:56:37 2009. While I was up there, I was thinking of a quote made by Dirty Harry."A Man's Got To Know His Limitations!" |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 20:14:32 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Apr 28 20:05:59 2009. We wish! |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Apr 28 20:18:56 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Fri Mar 6 14:34:59 2009. At East Broadway there was supposed to be a transfer from the bellmouth south on Canal St and the line to South 4th Street.You'd have to assume there was a stairway to the street from what would have been the station there. |
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