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| Re: Tunnel stubs (751780) | |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:50:20 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Mar 3 20:57:24 2009. That's why I gave the info. They merely speak of the lines of the second phase of the IND system, but the bellmouths shed light on where the lines and extensions were to be. Believe me, old heads of the system who knew I was a buff when I was at NYCT told me and showed me. You learn something new everyday!! :-) |
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| (752197) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:51:03 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:50:20 2009. I speak of the ones I saw on a regular basis. |
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| (752199) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:52:36 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by (SIR) North Shore Line on Tue Mar 3 21:16:41 2009. 95th Street was another extension under consideration, but it was one that WAS NOT intended to connect with the SIR. I heard this quite some time ago when I was still at the TA. I believe the section at nycsubway.org speaks of it. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:00:06 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 07:16:08 2009. Best guess is that if the connection to the second IND system was made, the connection would start there, a sort of express bypass of Classon Avenue. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:08:11 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Michael549 on Wed Mar 4 12:03:04 2009. Choice # 7: A good amount of those el sections were removed when the track configuration of the L Line at Atlantic Avenue was completed.All the IRT stubs: I was never A Division qualified (though Parkchester on the 6 was my pay location!!). I thought about it, but when I was there, the B Division was where all the money is at. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:12:01 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 15:52:19 2009. Well, Peter Dougherty's "Tracks Of The NYC Subway" sheds a bit of light and explanation of those tunnel stubs and bellmouths. It's a great book (was even more helpful when in class for conductor at NYCT!!) |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 21:21:46 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:12:01 2009. Today I was on a train, and I think I've might seen a bellmouth on the Queens-Bound F&V trains on the curve from Houston St to 6th Avenue, just before the West 4th Street station... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 21:46:00 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 21:21:46 2009. You might have seen the switch area between the 6th Ave and 8th Ave local tracks just south of West 4th Street. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 21:54:15 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 21:46:00 2009. No there was actually a tunnel with no track! Ride the last car of an R42 or R32 F train and look out the RFW going Queens-Bound to see what I'm talking about. |
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| (752268) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 21:59:22 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 21:54:15 2009. Don't forget to bring a camera. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Wed Mar 4 22:07:30 2009, in response to Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Mar 3 18:49:05 2009. It seems like the (R) line has the most of these mystery tunnel pockets.... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Wed Mar 4 22:22:36 2009, in response to Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Mar 3 18:49:05 2009. If you want to include PATH, there's the Astor Place tunnel heading, the former connection to the Henderson St yard, and whatever might remain of the Penn Pocket track west of Exchange Place.Somewhere around Hoboken there are remnants of the original tunnel construction. IIRC, Terry Kennedy posted information some time ago about provision for a line straight to Erie (Pavonia) from Hudson Terminal. A quick search didn't turn anything up, and I don't have time to follow up on it. Finally, I doubt if anything is left of the Hudson Terminal approaches that were abandoned when WTC opened. |
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| (752291) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 4 22:54:37 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 19:39:06 2009. I may have to correct that previous post - according to what I've heard - it's a fly UNDER the QB line that leads to 66 Avenuewayne |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Mar 4 22:58:05 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Michael549 on Wed Mar 4 12:03:04 2009. <<<6) Just south of the Rector Street station lie the tracks for the long time loop terminal of the #1 line at South Ferry. Since the opening of the current modern terminal for the #1 line, many have wondered where those tracks lead to.>>>As of yesterday, 3/3/09, the loop station was still open and the modern station, not yet. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 4 23:13:26 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:52:36 2009. I think it all ties in with the provision for the two extra tracks south of 59th Street. Citybound platforms at Bay Ridge Avenue and 77th Street are built over empty trackways, and do not have the round columns that the Outbound platforms do. The "hidden bridge" next to Bay Ridge Towers has four trackways. The two on the Towers side hold the current "R" line; the two on the opposite side are there but are empty.wayne |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 00:51:46 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 21:46:00 2009. No..he means a tunnel with no track...I've seen it too..and asked the very same question HERE/SUBTALK a while back...and NO one WAS able to answer... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by 33rd Street on Thu Mar 5 04:21:44 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Michael Wares on Wed Mar 4 22:22:36 2009. Finally, I doubt if anything is left of the Hudson Terminal approaches that were abandoned when WTC opened.The only thing that remained were some cast iron tunnel segments just off of Church Street.. IIRC, those tunnel segments were used as a loading dock for the WTC Mall. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 05:38:12 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 4 22:54:37 2009. According to what I've seen- it's a fly OVER from Whitepot and 66 Ave to the Citybound local track. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 05:44:24 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 00:51:46 2009. This tunnel with no track,Where does it seem to go? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 5 05:47:33 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 05:44:24 2009. I could SWEAR I remember Randy or someone else mentioning connections from 6th and 8th Avenue that would go to another IND tunnel which was never built ... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 06:15:03 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 5 05:47:33 2009. No idea which way this tunnel would have gone? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by metropod on Thu Mar 5 06:19:00 2009, in response to Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Mar 3 18:49:05 2009. one that's been skipped is the ramps built into the clealing S/O Chambers street meant to take the two west tracks over the Brooklyn bridge. Now part of the "Wine Celler" tunnels.I was let in there as part of a museum tour years ago. it was supposed to be a lunch hour tour of City Hall, but the station had been declaered off limits by Rudy (IIRC that very day). So they took us through the tunnels to the ramps. |
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| (752378) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 5 08:04:11 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 4 23:13:26 2009. Ralph!!! |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 10:28:03 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 5 08:04:11 2009. What? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 14:48:17 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 10:28:03 2009. I've always wondered how far these trackways extend. I pass theone between 63rd Drive and 67th Avenue on the (R) or (V) all the time, and have always tried to get a glimpse of a wall at the end, but never can. I've toyed with the idea of actually walking along the catwalk to find out, but would never actually do it. The trackway leading in on the Westbound side just east of 63rd Drive is only a few dozen yards (two lights' worth) before the station! |
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| (752524) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 14:52:36 2009, in response to Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Tue Mar 3 18:49:05 2009. At the extreme southern (Madison Street) end of the East Broadway (F) platform, there's a closed-off stairway that heads south, then does a 180 going up, and then goes to ... nowhere? There doesn't seem to be any evidence of an outlet for the stairway. Does anybody know the story? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:25:53 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 14:52:36 2009. Thanks to everyone who responded! Anyways, is there any bellmouths left? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 16:27:57 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:25:53 2009. Someone has to write that book first.Then we'll know if there are anymore! |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:43:25 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 16:27:57 2009. I heard that there is a bellmouth east of the 21st Street-Queenbridge station on the (F).... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:48:23 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:43:25 2009. Does anyone know where I can see pictures of these unused trackways/bellmouths??? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 16:54:52 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 05:38:12 2009. If I'm not mistaken, Tunnel Rat has been there and it is a fly UNDER. From what I have seen of most of the Qns Blv stations, ther is not enoug clearance for a flyover with the exception of Roosevelt Av. |
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| (752627) | |
Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 16:55:08 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 10:34:48 2009. you nailed it.... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Mar 5 16:55:24 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Mar 4 16:31:39 2009. Isn't there also a bellmouth south of Ft. Hamilton Pkwy on the "F" for the never built IND 2nd system line along Fort Hamilton Parkway. If the bellmouth exists it may be only on the lower express level. I rode the "F" for years but I'm not sure of this fact. Where is Tunnel Rat when you really need him? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:01:49 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:48:23 2009. You might be able to find most pictures in here.But you'd have to write the book to definately have all the pics. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 17:02:25 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 19:46:10 2009. Those "bellmouths" however were not intended to go to Staten Island. At one point in the construction of the extension of the original 4 Av subway from 86 to 95 st, It was planned to construct a small underground storage yard S/O 95 St since storage has been a chronic problem for the 4 Av Line since its construction. I have heard that those trackways actually extend a few blocks past the tunnel wall but since they continue straight rather than follow under 4 Av, they would be under private property and difficult to trace. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 17:02:25 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:00:06 2009. The Crosstown line isn't finished..nor will it ever be...if left up to the METROPOLITAN LEISURE TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 17:08:42 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Dan on Thu Mar 5 16:55:24 2009. Really? I never knew that.... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 17:11:28 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 4 20:00:06 2009. The Crosstown line isn't finished..nor will it ever be...if left up to the METROPOLITAN LEISURE TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY.The ONLY completed IND route is the 8th avenue subway...and even it has branches that are not built... |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 17:13:04 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 17:02:25 2009. 101st street? |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:13:10 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:43:25 2009. IIRC, that was to have been the western end of the "super express" that would have went to Jamaica Station on the LIRR or Parsons/Archer on the J or E line. I'm not sure because there were plans and rethinking of the route for years. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 17:16:17 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 16:43:25 2009. Correct. At one point there was a proposal to construct a NYCT yard in an unused portion of Sunnyside Yd so that midday service returning from Manhattan would not have to go all the way back to Jamaica Ad but could lay up at the new facility. This was part of an old proposeal to have 3 tracks in the peak direction of traffic along Qns Blvd with bi directional signalling installed on both express tracks. The new yard would have been needed to reduce the number of trains operating against the peak direction of traffic since they wouldn't have to return all the way back to Jamaica Yd on the only available off peak track. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 5 17:25:32 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 06:15:03 2009. Sorry to say, I don't ... I wasn't much of a buff when I wasn't working there and when I was, silly me was paying too much attention to my OWN iron. :) |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:27:33 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 16:54:52 2009. Get into the rear car of a Manhattan bound local train with a RFW window. Look out while the train runs from 67 Ave to 63 Dr and you'll see a ramp coming down from the fly OVER. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 17:32:17 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:27:33 2009. But the bellmouth is too dark to see anything. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 17:34:59 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 5 17:13:04 2009. Yeah. I read that on Station Reporter. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:39:30 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 5 17:02:25 2009. The only routes going to Staten Island were supposed to start at 59 st/4 Ave on the R. The other one was the Express track on the F line around Fort Hamilton Parkway.Post the pics I just sent you so everyone else can see them. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:44:33 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 5 17:25:32 2009. Then how about a guess which direction this track or tunnel would have gone? |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:45:54 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 17:32:17 2009. You should be able to see if the ramp is coming up or down. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by bigrene22 on Thu Mar 5 18:05:38 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:45:54 2009. But the tunnel has no lights or anything. |
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Re: Tunnel stubs |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 5 18:38:43 2009, in response to Re: Tunnel stubs, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Mar 5 17:44:33 2009. approx ten years ago there was an NYTimes article about the ubcompleted stuff. The reporter had been on a 'Museum' fieldtrip IIRC and a pic was shown of pristine tunnel w/out track curving away from the camera. IINM they toured both the as yet unused bits of 63rd soon (fingers crossed) to link up to the stubway/SAS. They may have also toured some bit N of Grand Street designed for SAS. |
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