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Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon May 12 17:51:07 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. The person being questioned could have politely asked them to consult with a supervisor; he could also have told them that they are mistaken and that they were welcome to arrest him for pghotography, in which case he would file a lawsuit. |
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| (616153) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by metropod on Mon May 12 18:10:24 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. i have my own answer to any future problems with the police. It's way more effective than a sheet of paper with the rules on it. I'm not disclosing it, but let me just say it's so effective, the officers might just be trembling in thier boots when i use it. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (616156) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by metropod on Mon May 12 18:16:11 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by metropod on Mon May 12 18:10:24 2008. You know how it says think twice next to the post button, well i did, then after pushing I thought again. I'll skip the crap and explain.I would basicly threaten to tell on the police officers by calling someone of higher rank than thiers. I have two chiefs I can call. one was one of my dad's best friends way back when. The other was my dad's long time boss, who came to rely on my dad like you wouldn't beleave. Since my dad pasted two months ago, they would basicly drop anything to help me. |
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| (616158) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon May 12 18:19:03 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. ["Feel free to chime in on your two cents."]
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| (616161) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by rtype3995 on Mon May 12 18:31:45 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon May 12 18:19:03 2008. I had this problem a couple of days ago...in fact what I do now is have ta's rules bookmarked on my blackberry and if anyone questions the photography, I bring it right up on the phone...I did it to a t/0 who claimed there was a memo saying to call it in....I showed her the photo rule, she sure enough went back to the cab and closed the door...I think my next step is calling downtown to 2 broadway....lol |
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| (616162) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon May 12 18:36:03 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by metropod on Mon May 12 18:16:11 2008. If you indeed know these commanders, you should use a very high degree of discretion in calling on them. There is a fine line between asking for legitimate assistance and putting them at risk for their jobs.I'm not saying you shouldn't. I am saying you should be very careful how you do it. The object is not to intimidate the officers in question; the object is to help everyone interpret and facilitate enforcement of applicable laws. I, too, am friendly with senior police brass, in New York and elsewhere. I have called them for help a few times. In each case it was to help me a) save a life where I was unsure which local resources to call upon b) Help a recent legal immigrant friend of mine with a domestic abuse situation c) Intervene in a medical situation where I had to track down a homeless sick person who was unaware of the illness nd reunite her with family. I did not ask for anything the PD wouldn't otherwise do, but my calls meant that help arrived faster and the appropriate resources were quickly coordinated. Sometimes that meant the PD allowed me to do the coordination. I did the work; they pitched in at just the rifght times. |
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| (616177) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon May 12 19:21:56 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. I would have written down names and badge numbers and written letters to the NYCLU, MTA, Peter Vallone Jr., and Bloomberg's office as well as posted their names and badge numbers on all the photo rights sites on the net. |
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| (616181) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon May 12 19:27:22 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BMTLines on Mon May 12 19:21:56 2008. Good advice. |
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| (616215) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon May 12 20:43:30 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by rtype3995 on Mon May 12 18:31:45 2008. *YOU* are permitted to take photographs.*THEY* are required to call it in. These are two different horses in two different races. Sometimes they get that part confused. Tell them, that you are indeed permitted to take all the pictures you like from any public place on the system of whatever subjects you wish, and they *are* supposed to call photography in as a possible treat. Let the Police sort it out. ROAR |
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| (616220) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon May 12 20:48:33 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon May 12 20:43:30 2008. *THEY* are required to call it in...and they *are* supposed to call photography in as a possible treat.Ugh. Will you STOP perpetuating these damaging lies? WHERE do you get off posting this stuff??? There is no memo saying they HAVE TO call in photographers!!!! There is only a memo reminding employees that photography MAY BE suspicious and suspicious activity MUST BE REPORTED. It does not say that photography IS SUSPICIOUS, in and of itself. Once again, it says that some photography of the system MAY BE SUSPICIOUS, and all suspicious activity must be called in. THEREFORE, they ARE NOT REQUIRED TO CALL IN PHOTOGRAPHERS!!! They are only required to call in suspicious activity, which in some circumstances may include someone taking photos. |
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| (616221) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon May 12 20:48:49 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. Probably grumpy over piss poor starting pay, and now talk their raises might be stalled unless the PBA agrees to mentioned givebacks to the city, and looking to take it out on anyone. The NYPD are not very popular these days, this is for sure!! Placard abuse, getting away with major crimes, robbing banks, etc etc etc!! Forgive them, they know not what they do!! (Yeah right!! lol) |
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| (616242) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 12 21:05:36 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon May 12 20:48:49 2008. They would make more of a point if they STOPPED WRITING TICKETS! |
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| (616245) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon May 12 21:08:52 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 12 21:05:36 2008. That won't happen unless they drop the ticket quota system they department bigs hang over their heads. |
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| (616257) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 12 21:31:01 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon May 12 21:08:52 2008. It probably won't happen anyway if the actions of dishonorable revenue enhancement were under the Taylor Law but the quotas aren't any concern. Through discipline, cops get reassigned to precincts far from home, so since they are so shorthanded, a few less tickets, refusal to work forced overtime for courts and a strong PBA rebuttal might help them more off than giving up the rookie vacations and other concessions they were looking for last CBA |
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| (616267) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by error46146 on Mon May 12 21:39:40 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. so i guess their still enforcing this fake law.. |
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| (616353) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Tue May 13 00:16:45 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. Why can't these officers just leave photographers the heck alone? Photography is legal in the subways and these donut stuffers are still ensisting that it is not since 9-11. These lies have GOT TO STOP!!! It's making me sick!!! |
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| (616361) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 00:43:19 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Bee Flexible #823 on Tue May 13 00:16:45 2008. Both the NYPD and the MTA are aware that there is a problem. Both agencies have been put on notice by the NYCLU that their officers and employees need to be reminded that photography is legal but as of today both agencies are stonewalling. The NYCLU has a lawsuit pending against the NYPD to get a court order to force them to properly train officers - we will have to wait and see how that settles.I no longer believe that these are isolated incidents due to rogue employees and/or rogue cops. Both agencies are unofficially condoning this behavior. It is therefore important to file complaints about each and every incident - no matter how minor. This will give the NYCLU the proof it needs that there is a systematic pattern on the part of these agencies to harass photographers. The problem isn't just in the subway - the NYPD is engaging in an open war against photographers everywhere in the city. |
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| (616362) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue May 13 01:03:33 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon May 12 20:48:33 2008. Is this what you told the Post Office police officer last week? |
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| (616400) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 07:11:30 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon May 12 20:48:33 2008. How can a T/O determine whether photography is suspicious or not though is what I want to know. Racial profiling? |
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| (616403) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:26:28 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 07:11:30 2008. How can a T/O determine whether photography is suspicious or not though is what I want to know. Racial profiling?Depends on whats being photographed... Thats all im saying. |
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| (616404) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:28:50 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:26:28 2008. I stand corrected i have to add something else to clarifyThe where and when applys here also. |
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| (616405) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 07:29:09 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:26:28 2008. If you're refering to the memo, then no, that only MAY BE suspicious. You still need to somehow determine if you think it is suspicious or not. That's what he's asking. |
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| (616406) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 07:30:18 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 07:11:30 2008. common sense, and using what is taught to them in those classes they are giving. |
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| (616410) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 07:49:21 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:28:50 2008. It's more than that as well. |
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| (616411) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:57:42 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 07:29:09 2008. Duh! forgot about that of course,the actions of said person.. |
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| (616417) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 08:36:08 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:57:42 2008. yay! |
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| (616419) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 08:39:59 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:28:50 2008. I presume that's why I don't have problems - employees just wave and smile and other people who see what I am doing have actually excused themselves for getting in my way :-D I also try not to obstruct - when I see people hesitating to pass - I aim the camera down and wave for them to pass before continuing.. |
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| (616428) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 09:16:58 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 08:39:59 2008. Hey thats a nice shot..Same Model of different one? |
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| (616485) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 12:52:51 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 09:16:58 2008. Thanks!That's Bella - I did another photo shoot with her back in March too:  |
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| (616542) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:15:02 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 07:30:18 2008. I don't think that common sense helps in this situation, if I were a T/O that didn't know much about the railfan community, and saw a railfan taking photos of the station, I would think that it could be possible terrorism (i.e. to aid in bombing the station). |
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| (616543) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:16:20 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 07:57:42 2008. What actions? |
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| (616544) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 15:20:54 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:16:20 2008. What actions?Think now, you are about to scope something out to do something really stupid... You can figure out the rest.. |
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| (616551) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:27:01 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:15:02 2008. if I were a T/O that didn't know much about the railfan community, and saw a railfan taking photos of the station, I would think that it could be possible terrorism (i.e. to aid in bombing the station).Why would you think that? It's been said over and over again that you don't need photos of something to blow it up! Furthermore, why would a terrorist be seen openly taking photos!? Terrorists don't want to get caught! People openly taking photos are the opposite of suspicious. That's common sense. |
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| (616552) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue May 13 15:30:15 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:15:02 2008. if I were a T/O that didn't know much about the railfan community, and saw a railfan taking photos of the station, I would think that it could be possible terrorism (i.e. to aid in bombing the station).AFAIK, not once did any news article about 9/11, ever mentioned the hijackers taking photos of the Pentagon and WTC. |
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| (616553) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:31:16 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:16:20 2008. link: If You See Something, Say Something# Take notice of people in bulky or inappropriate clothing. # Report exposed wiring or other irregularities. # Report anyone tampering with surveillance cameras or entering unauthorized areas. I would add to that: Taking photos with an obviously hidden camera. Taking photos while taking great pains to not be seen (like hiding behind columns). Looking very nervous. |
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| (616555) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:32:31 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue May 13 15:30:15 2008. and for good reason. there are plenty of photos out there. and photos wouldn't do any good anyway, they were irrelevant! |
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| (616557) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:33:02 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:27:01 2008. Can't someone take photos of the station to help figure out where the bombs should be located so the whole station can blow up as planned? |
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| (616558) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:39:42 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:31:16 2008. Alright, so I like to wear jeans and the size of my cellphone makes my pants pocket look kind of bulky from the outside, so is that proper circumstances for a T/O to question me? Also, what if the T/O does question me, and I look nervous because I don't want to get in any legal trouble? |
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| (616559) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue May 13 15:40:36 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 15:32:31 2008. It was all about planning and money. Planning the hijacing and the money to move around the US and abroad, getting the ID's from Virginia Dept. of Motor Vehicles, staying at cheap hotels with mail delivered to rented mailboxes, etc. Not ever, was ANYTHING mentioned about any of the 20 hijackers coming to the WTC, and the Pentagon to take photos from the outside. |
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| (616562) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Tue May 13 15:44:35 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:39:42 2008. False, the T/O cannot question you. He has to report it to the police, where they will handle and question the suspicious person. |
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| (616565) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Railman718 on Tue May 13 15:47:15 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:39:42 2008. Alright, so I like to wear jeans and the size of my cellphone makes my pants pocket look kind of bulky from the outside, so is that proper circumstances for a T/O to question me? Also, what if the T/O does question me, and I look nervous because I don't want to get in any legal trouble?Its not our job to question anybody on the platform thats a cops job(even though some of us still arent aware of the rules but that's another topic). Now that being said you wind up in a barn,or in a yard or a yard siding,or a relay or lay-up track or in a crew room and nobody knows who you are and you arent supposed to be there you WILL get questioned by one of us.. |
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| (616585) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 17:28:19 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:33:02 2008. Anyone can do anything. But do they need to? Is it worth the risk over just using your eyes? Do you even need any more than just your eyes? |
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| (616587) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 17:31:54 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:39:42 2008. Alright, so I like to wear jeans and the size of my cellphone makes my pants pocket look kind of bulky from the outsideThat's not abnormal. I think they are talking about much bulkier than that. T/O to question me? As others said, the T/O is supposed to just call it in, not confront you. In fact, an untrained person confronting a suspicious person is extremely stupid. |
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| (616619) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 18:59:56 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 15:15:02 2008. if I were a T/O that didn't know much about the railfan community, and saw a railfan taking photos of the stationDon't just think that only railfans take pictures in the subway. It is one of the most photographed features of New York. The pictures seen here aren't just from railfans: nycsubway group on Flickr nyctransit group on Flickr There are many more groups dedicated to trains and subways... As for security - the argument that preventing photography will increase security is a fallacy. All it does is give the public a false sense of security that the authorities are doing "something". The fact of the matter is that photography of the subway is specifically permitted by law. This is where a lot of photographers are having a problem with cops and employees who choose to ignore that fact. It is as if a site posts a sign that reads "Free Admission - Enter here" while posting a security guard at the entrance to harass anyone who relies on the sign and actually enters. The MTA and NYPD want it both ways - they want to give lip service to the rule of law while at the same time harassing anyone who acts based upon the law as written. BTW in 1928(?) there were two coordinated bombings in the IRT and BMT - the public didn't panic the way it is doing today. |
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| (616638) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 19:42:25 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 18:59:56 2008. Nice post. |
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| (616644) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by JournalSquare-K-Car on Tue May 13 19:58:13 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 18:59:56 2008. "As for security - the argument that preventing photography will increase security is a fallacy. All it does is give the public a false sense of security that the authorities are doing "something"."- That IS the truth there. Good point. I still wonder why the HECk there are so many cops around exchange place in jersey city, just to make yuppies feel safe. Those cops need to go to GREENVILLE, like ocean avenue, there they will have a lot of crime to fight, but you rarely see cops there until someone is shot. Those bombings on the subway were done by germans, i believe, like the black tom explosion in jersey city, so the public wouldn't probably panic because lots of them were germans, and it would be hard to distinguish. Now it is easy, find someone with a turbin, and bingo, terrorist alert, not to mention the government and media overblowing it. Remember the bull with mcarthyism? Just need an idiot to get people jumpy. People were probably smarter in some sense back in 1928. |
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| (616661) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue May 13 20:59:53 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 13 17:31:54 2008. I have had T/Os, B/Os, and C/Rs all question me, although now that I think about it, maybe it's because I tend to hide my camera when I taking pictures because I fear getting arrested, and according to the website, that's suspicious. |
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| (616662) | |
Re: Police Officer Misinformed |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Tue May 13 20:59:56 2008, in response to Re: Police Officer Misinformed, posted by BMTLines on Tue May 13 18:59:56 2008. "BTW in 1928(?) there were two coordinated bombings in the IRT and BMT - the public didn't panic the way it is doing today."Nor did the public react more than appropriately to the original WTC bombing in 1993, nor to the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. We've come a long way, people...in the WRONG direction. |
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| (616666) | |
Police Officer Misinformed: This PROVES What Has Been Suspected From The Beginning. |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Tue May 13 21:07:11 2008, in response to Police Officer Misinformed, posted by 33rd Street on Mon May 12 17:47:16 2008. "The officer put the icing on the cake when she said 'We don't care if people take photos but that is what we are told.'"If THIS doesn't prove an unlawful and unconstitutional effort by the NYPD to stop law-abiding photographers from peacefully enjoying their hobby, nothing else will. |
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