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| (599624) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Apr 12 00:03:38 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by checkthedoorlight on Thu Apr 10 22:38:50 2008. Actually:One thing that could be done on weekends is to have V service, but have it instead of terminating in Manhattan at 2nd Avenue have it after Broadway Lafayette go via the Broadway Brooklyn line beginning at Essex Street and have it replace the M on weekends to Metropolitan Avenue, which would be the same M-V combo train that many of us had discussed here a lot previously. That might be a way to at least gauge how that would work on weekends (though perhaps you might have to use the M trainsets on weekends in that scenario for this line), while solving the problem with G riders in Queens to some degree. |
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| (599628) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:25:14 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Fri Apr 11 16:50:22 2008. Yup. Just like I figured.I'll still bet that Woodhaven is the most underserved station in the city. Turnstyle count vs. trains-per-hour. TA has to find a way to make it express stop. |
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| (599631) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 00:33:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by KLCS on Fri Apr 11 23:33:00 2008. From a previous message: "How does running the E local screw riders? An extra 4 minutes (from Roosevelt) or 7-8 minutes (from Continental)?"Here's a question for you. Given that the MTA in many years has been "scrapped for cash" where there have been service reductions and other measures taken to reduce costs, how come the MTA has never during the recent decades made either the E or F train all local in Queens during the day-evening portions of the weekend? The MTA has access to the same (or better) transit ridership information for its subway stations, and we can be sure a great deal of access to the manpower requirements of each line. Just think about all of the various routings of trains over the years (and leaving midnight hour service out of the issue), just when has the MTA ever made the E and F trains all-local in Queens during the day-time hours? (I mean REGULAR SERVICE - G.O.'s and emergency re-routes do not count.) Think about it. During the day-time hours of the weekend, all of the Bronx routes are all local. In Brooklyn for the longest time, #4 and #5 trains terminated at Atlantic Avenue on the weekdays/ends, and only since the 1980's, the #4 has run express on the weekdays/ends to Utica Avenue. Long-time Brighton Line users will say that there has not been a weekend express service in decades - maybe since Franklin Avenue through-routed trips to Brighton Beach - which would be before the D-train started to serve the Brighton line. Riders on the 4th Avenue line can count the N-train as a weekend day-time express - most maps show such express service ending about 9:30pm or so. Riders on the A and C - Fulton Street line now have A weekend express service, but that was not always the case. During the 1980's and before the A ran all local in Brooklyn on the weekends, and it is only until the mid-1990's did C-train service start to run on the weekends in Brooklyn, allowing A-trains to run local. The Astoria branch never had express service on the weekends in recent decades, and basically the same can be said of the Flushing line (baseball game and World's Fair specials excepted.) The Queens Blvd line is the only line that has consistently kept its express service over the decades for the day-time hours on the weekends. It could be that the MTA knows that the ridership is there for the express service, and that many of its riders prefer the arrangement of the weekend express service. So real bottom line isn't - "Gee isn't my idea a reasonable idea so please just agree with me" -- over the decades the MTA has had the opportunity to run its trains all local along Queens Blvd, but has consistently CHOSEN NOT TO. Just my thoughts. Mike |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (599641) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 00:47:21 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Fri Apr 11 23:35:50 2008. This is crap. I'm tired of my line always being shafted. |
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| (599646) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:52:47 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 00:33:56 2008. There are some differences between Queens and Brooklyn on weekends.In Brooklyn, you have a major terminal, Coney Island, and from there, trains branch out to the Brighton, Sea Beach, West End and Culver lines. Each branch is served by just one train. In Queens, we have the E, F, and R on weekends on Queens Blvd, which then branch out to Parson, and 179, with R's terminating in Forest Hills. With three trains on one trunk, it justifies the TA's decision to maintain both express and locals. Still, the ridership levels at stations like Woodhaven, Rego Park and Grand seem to indicate that we need a local every five or six minutes. That never seems to happen. Express trains greatly outnumber locals, and you can make this observation just standing at Rego Park, without looking at the schedules. Something needs to be done, so that you don't have 300 people standing at Woodhaven, watching 3 or 4 express trains pass before a local comes. |
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| (599654) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Apr 12 01:17:39 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Fri Apr 11 23:35:50 2008. Leonard thinks that any service change that slightly hurts him is akin to ethnic cleansing in kosovo. |
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| (599656) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:20:35 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Fri Apr 11 22:43:18 2008. How do the current routes favor Queens local riders? We stand there like assholes watching express trains pass by while leaning over the platform to see if a local is in sight. |
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| (599658) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:34:22 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 00:33:56 2008. Mike,I guess you haven't noticed that before May 1987, when we had the EE and N lines on WEEKDAYS ONLY, the G was the ONLY local ssrvice ALL WEEKEND. No direct Manhattan srvice from local stops west of Forest Hills without a transfer to the E or F. I have never understood this longstanding service arrangement since the 11th Street Connector opened in 1955. Only when the N/R switch did we have Manhattan local service weekday evenings and weekends. So from 1955 to 1987, Queens Blvd. local riders had no choice but to take the express to reach Manhattan. And the funny thing was, Lex-51st transfer wasn't completed until 1989, so the only way to reach the Lex Line was via the N or 7. Even when the R was cut back from Queens late nights, we had the G local and the E EXPRESS. So riders had to transfer to the E to go to Manhattan. Only in 1997, when the F was re-extended to 179th Street and we had E and F local service at night have we had a sound service plan. But that was shot in 2001 when the F ran express. |
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| (599661) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:35:57 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:20:35 2008. During weekdays you have a useless V local in addition to the R train while the F runs through the stupid 63rd connector and the V is bursting at the seams. God forbid if express riders have anything. All local riders want to do is take, take, take. They already screwed up the F line. Making the E run local will be icing on the cake. |
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| (599662) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall(Correction) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:36:06 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:34:22 2008. When I said 1955-87, I meant Queens Blvd. riders had to transfer to the express to reach Manh. on weekends. |
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| (599663) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 01:40:27 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:35:57 2008. During weekdays you have a useless V local in addition to the R train while the F runs through the stupid 63rd connectorHold on a minute. If it's 53rd Street you want (given by the "stupid 63rd connector" comment) then just take the V from a local station to 53rd Street! What's wrong with that? |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:40:56 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:52:47 2008. Exactly my point.And running one of the express trains local will be more beneficial and less costly than running the G train. But since my idea of running express trains local is being shot down, more frequent R service terminating a Whitehall Street probabaly will have to do. Although one of the reasons I advocated running the E local was to let G riders have one transfer to Queens Blvd instead of two that would exist if the E ran express. And there is the fact that the 53rd Street Corridor is a destination many want to go. |
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| (599665) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:40:59 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:35:57 2008. How can the V be both useless and bursting at the seams? The usual knock on the V is that it's vacant.All I know is that express trains outnumber locals. How can you complain about that? Do you really want to be plugged behind an E from Continental to 5th Ave? Going through 63rd corridor allows the F some breathing room. That's not so bad. |
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| (599667) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:42:34 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:40:59 2008. Typo. I meant E. |
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| (599668) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:43:35 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 01:40:27 2008. What if you're boarding at Jamaica Center or 179st? |
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| (599669) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:44:24 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:35:57 2008. For the umpteenth time, I'm talking about weekend service and trying to mitigate with the loss of direct G service to Forest Hills.Weekday service is not the issue I've taken up. |
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| (599671) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 01:46:17 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:43:35 2008. If you're boarding at Jamaica Center, take the E to 53rd Street. If it's local, then add a few extra minutes to your commute.If you're boarding at 179th Street, transfer to the E somewhere, and if it's local then add a few extra minutes to your commute. Or, just walk the 10 blocks from Lexington Avenue-63rd Street -- it's really not that far. |
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| (599674) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:48:16 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:25:14 2008. If you notice the bellmounths before and after the station diverging from D1 and D2, those would have been the trackways for the local tracks had they converted Woodhaven to an express stop. |
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| (599675) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Apr 12 01:51:44 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:35:57 2008. useless V localIAWTQ. |
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| (599677) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:53:35 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:48:16 2008. The bellmouths are probably something the TA does not want councilmen to know about. It's step one in making Woodhaven an express stop. I have a feeling it would be relatively easy to do. It's needed. |
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| (599678) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:57:48 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 01:46:17 2008. This is so wrong. The outer boroughs always get crapped on. One week it's "let's eliminate the express bus". The next week it's "let's charge motorists $8 to drive in their own city". Now this. It's almost as if people get a sadistic pleasure out of making other people miserable. I'll probably hear the usual line of "if you want a short commute then move closer to the city" but with the rent in Manhattan and the crime in my old neighborhood that's not possible. Before the V train f'ed up Queens Blvd I had two options. The E and F ran at a combined headway of every 2 minutes. I could take either one and it would bring me to where I needed to go. Now, the F meanders through the 63rd Connector and the E is SRO even at 9PM. The F persistently bunches up during the PM rush. I pay the same fare as someone in Rego Park yet the service pattern clearly favors Queens local riders. |
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| (599679) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:02:31 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 01:53:35 2008. Yep I was thinking about that, but I wondered how it would affect passenger loadings on all four lines during the rush hour.As it is now during the rush hour, many R and V riders that board before Roosevelt stay on board and continue to Manhattan (because they either don't want to deal with the transfer, crowded express, they have a seat, it gets them to their destination). Of course many still do the transfer to express service at Roosevelt anyway. But I have a feeling that if Woodhaven became an express staion, more of those passengers who would have taken the local all the way in would opt for the express, crowding express trains more. I see it at Roosevelt, people going to 53rd Street; they wait for the E or the V (the first one to arrive). So it might have a detrimental effect on overcrowding on express trains. And a negative point to bettering local service, when your busiest local station is now an express stop. So its iffy at best. BTW, it sounds like you live along the line? I live at 63rd Drive Kyle |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:06:03 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:40:56 2008. I remember the first time I worked the G as a motorman. I remembered my days as a passenger, running for the four-car train, while standing on a section of platform where the train does not stop. I always blow my horn entering each station and passengers look up and knew what I mean-That they have to start getting closer to the middle of the station. It helps keep me on-time. They appreciate this.Truthfully, even if TA schedules more local service on weekends, they'll still have to scale back most weekends do to construction(GO's) anyway. There are four segments of local track in Queens. Continental to Roosevelt local. Roosevelt to Queens Plaza local. Queens Plaza to Roosvelet local and Roosevelt to Continental local. Statistically, there's a good chance one will be out of service on weekends for construction. This forces TA to reduce local service regardless of the ridership levels at local Queens stops. |
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| (599681) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 02:06:50 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:57:48 2008. I'm not sure what issue you're complaining about. You seem to have merged many minor issues into something that's larger than it seems.Public transit is not about convenience or comfort. The purpose of public transportation is to move the greatest number of people most efficiently. This might mean running trains local during certain times, or creating service patterns that might inconvenience a minority of riders while serving the majority as a whole. But, as the old saying goes, "you can't satisfy all the people all the time." Not to mention that the Queens Boulevard line has some of the best rapid transit service in the country. I understand that the status quo of the Queens Boulevard line not be the most comfortable mode of transportation, nor may it be the most convenient to everyone. But if you want the ultimate in transportation, seriously consider investing in a personal automobile. Also, what does this have to do with the suggestions I outlined in my previous post? They work fine if you give them a try. |
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| (599682) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:07:15 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:57:48 2008. Well I live at one of those local stops and before 2001 had to rely on overcrowded R Trains taking me directly to Manhattan (ran every 5 minutes). The G was useeless to me. I never went to Roosevelt at the height of rush for an express, because I would have never gotten on the first one or even two trains to come.Commuting in Queens was never easy. |
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| (599683) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:11:21 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 01:57:48 2008. Yeah. You should stand at Rego Park with the passengers and watch those express trains go by while waiting for a local. Ultimate slap in the face is waiting and the next train coming through does not stop.F going through 63rd is good for that line because it gives the trains more room to breathe. Before the 63rd connector, there was congestion from Continental to 5th Ave many days. That's no longer the case. Connector opens up the line so to speak. At least for the F. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:11:27 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:06:03 2008. You're right. With the many GO's and CBTC coming, having the R run local may be the only logical choice. As I understand now on many weekends, they run on a supplement? schedule with 12 minute headways for the R? |
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| (599685) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:13:23 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:11:21 2008. I remember pre-2001 getting on a E Train and taking 20 minutes to go from Roosevelt to Queens Plaza. It's really sped up since. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:14:18 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:02:31 2008. Me too. I live near 63rd and Yellowstone. |
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| (599687) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:22:24 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:02:31 2008. Excellent point when you say that making Woodhaven an express stop would siphon ridership from the local line, and cause overcrowding on the express. No one would be able to get on the express at Roosevelt is what you're saying? Sounds realistic. But the type of people who take the local "all the way" might be determined to do so regardless of whether or not Woodhaven becomes an express stop. They seem to be people who just have to have a seat, or transfer to the Lex express. |
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| (599689) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:24:47 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:11:27 2008. Exactly. Supplements kill everything. That's why it may be impossible for Queens local riders to ever have the five minute or six minute headways they deserve on weekends. |
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| (599690) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 02:27:57 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 02:06:50 2008. But if you want the ultimate in transportation, seriously consider investing in a personal automobile.But then I would be accused of causing congestion. My main gripe is that it seems like the Queens express riders always get the short end of the stick. In 2001, quality F service was sacrificed so the V train could be created. The F no longer heads to where the majority of the people want to go (besides Goldwater Hospital there isn't anything of interest on Roosevelt Island). Now, in the year 2008 people want weekend E express service to be sacrificed so a few impetuous Queens local riders can have their way. Ironically, most local riders end up transfering to the E at Roosevelt. I understand that many Subchatters are well educated and they think that by running the E local they are optimizing capacity on Queens Blvd. However, there's a thing called marginal cost. The marginal cost of running the E local would be encouraging more people to drive on weekends. Trivial statistics can't measure customer satisfaction. |
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| (599691) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:28:31 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:13:23 2008. Yeah. It's better going to Manhattan. Queens-bound is now the problem. But only from 36th to Roosevelt. Sometimes you can be on an express at 65th Ave. and notice a local train on the next track. The express can actually miss that local at Roosevelt due to congestion. Seriously. But overall, things are better. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:28:43 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:22:24 2008. A while back ago, I would wonder if the Lex-53rd Stret transfer was a mistake (a what if). It turned out to be too sucessful and they had to reconstruct the station several years ago.If the transfer wasn't built, we would have E (formerly F) riders piling onto R Trains at Queens Plaza. Many people from the E still do transfer to the R at Queens Plaza during rush hour, though not as much as before 2001 for some reason. There's a photo on nycsubway.org with an 8! car R32 N Train and looking at that photo always reminds me of Queens Plaa and the lack of an E-F-6 Transfer. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 02:32:39 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 02:27:57 2008. I don't see the E ever running local weekend afternoons. don't lose sleep over it. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:34:02 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 02:27:57 2008. Some riders transfer to the E at Roosevelt, some the F, some stay on the R. The R is SRO by Queens Plaza during the weekend.6-7 extra minutes will encourage more people to drive? I question that. |
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| (599697) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 02:35:08 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 00:33:56 2008. Oops, I noticed a mistake.What I wrote: "During the 1980's and before the A ran all local in Brooklyn on the weekends, and it is only until the mid-1990's did C-train service start to run on the weekends in Brooklyn, allowing A-trains to run local." What I meant: "During the 1980's and before the A ran all local in Brooklyn on the weekends, and it is only until the mid-1990's did C-train service start to run on the weekends in Brooklyn, allowing A-trains to run EXPRESS." Sorry about that, I write fast sometimes. Mike |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sat Apr 12 02:44:13 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 02:27:57 2008. The F no longer heads to where the majority of the people want to goPROFF that the majority of F riders on Queens Boulevard are headed for either the Lexington Avenue/53rd Street station or the 5th Avenue/53rd Street station? The F runs through the 63rd Street connector because Queens Boulevard express riders already have service to 53rd Street via the E. Before the V, Queens Boulevard local riders had to transfer while there were two express services, the E and the F, on 53rd Street. The current service plan is beneficial to the majority of riders -- one local service and one express service for 53rd Street, a fair compromise. And I wouldn't say that the MTA is unfavorably favoring Queens Boulevard local riders. Weekend Queens Boulevard local service is terrible, with only the R running. Weekday service isn't much better, but at least there are two lines that actually go to Manhattan. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 03:01:43 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:52:47 2008. From a previous message: "Still, the ridership levels at stations like Woodhaven, Rego Park and Grand seem to indicate that we need a local every five or six minutes. That never seems to happen. Express trains greatly outnumber locals, and you can make this observation just standing at Rego Park, without looking at the schedules."Please note that I am not saying that local service should or should not be improved. Of course I know that EE-trains used to run "normal hours" (weekdays 6am to 8pm) or that N-trains did and did not run at certain periods of the weekday. Through other members of the forum I've learned the RR-trains ran along Queens Blvd weekdays as a local BEFORE the EE-trains existed. I was talking about the WEEKEND day-time service along Queens Blvd, and that E and F trains for decades were ALWAYS running express along that section. That happened whether the local train was the G or GG-train, the R train, or whether now that the V-train makes local stops weekdays. The issue of direct Manhattan local service on the weekends is a good debateable issue. So KLCS, I agree with all of your points in your Sat Apr 12 01:34:22 2008 message - since all of it supports the point I made. The point I made and still make is that E and F trains for decades were ALWAYS running express along Queens Blvd during the day-time portions of the weekends. That was a decision by the TA/MTA - even when they could have chosen to do something different. Mike |
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| (599761) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Apr 12 10:29:05 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 02:34:02 2008. The R is SRO by Queens Plaza during the weekend.Well, the (E) is usually SRO at Kew Gardens, sometimes even earlier. |
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| (599764) | |
Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:37:16 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 00:52:47 2008. Exp to Lcl is 2:1. Well duh... It *is* 2:1. (E)+(F):(R)The question is, what *is* the ridership of the (E) and (F) trains as they arrive at 74th Street. Are they full? Are they mostly full? Are they empty? Now ask yourself, "Self, how many people change from the Local to the Express at Roosevelt?" *THAT* alone should tell you that even they PREFER the express over the local, since the (R) can serve every place in Manhattan that can be reached by either the (E) or the (F). Finally, look at these trains as they are arriving in Manhattan: are they all equally filled. If so then it is working and does not need fixing. ROAR |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:46:36 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by KLCS on Sat Apr 12 01:34:22 2008. I guess you haven't noticed that before May 1987, when we had the EE and N lines on WEEKDAYS ONLY, the G was the ONLY local ssrvice ALL WEEKEND. No direct Manhattan srvice from local stops west of Forest Hills without a transfer to the E or F.That was the original design of the IND. Locals in Brooklyn and Queens were NEVER supposed to enter Manhattan. Locals collected the passengers and they transfered to the Express. That *WAS* the design. The connection with the 60th Street tunnel changed this and placed a Broadway train on the sacred rails of the IND. And skrewed up their whole plan. LION's Plan: (one of many) (F) 179 via Queens Express to Sixth Avenue via 63rd Street (E) Parsons via Queens Express to Eighth Avenue via 53rd Street (R) Forest Hills via Queens Local to Broadway via 60th Street (V) Forest Hills via Queens Local to Sixth Avenue via 53rd Street Hmm.... I think NYCT *likes* this one too! ROARING |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:48:39 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 02:35:08 2008. The (A) was *supposed* to run Express, and the (H) was *supposed to be the Local from Euclid to Court Street. When said (H) was discontinued (did it ever *really* run as originally designed?) the (A) became a local.ROAR |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:50:36 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by KLCS on Fri Apr 11 23:35:50 2008. In this case "Suburban Commuters" include those in eastern Queens who arrive at 179th Street and 169th Street on a bus.(Eeeeek! a Bus... back! Back to BusChat with you, you NASTY vehicle, you!) |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 10:57:41 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:50:36 2008. Yeah, unlike these people along Queens Blvd who are steps away from the subway I have to take a bus to reach the train. That's already 25-30 minutes. And people have the damn audacity to make my train a local. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Apr 12 10:58:11 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:37:16 2008. One of the appealing arguments, though, is that on paper, the Queens Blvd Line is supposed to have two express and two local routes on weekend days, and late nights the line is supposed to have one express and two local routes; ON PAPER, anyway....In practice, as we know, G train sightings on the Queens Blvd Line sometimes don't occur for days and nights at time. As we know, NYCT has decreed that 'until further notice' there will be no G service on the line all weekend long. The reason given for this is, 'We [NYCT] are making track improvements to ensure that trains continue to operate safely along the G line.' They must be doing, and have done, a lot of track improvement! |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view) |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Apr 12 11:04:29 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall (Make the statistics clearer to view), posted by Forest Glen on Sat Apr 12 10:57:41 2008. Look, NYCT insists on running less trains than the published schedule shows, so the trains that do run ought to make more stops. Queens Blvd Line local stops are supposed to have not less than two routes serving them at all times.I do agree, however, that the politically tenable solution would involve NYCT running V trains all times except late nights. If they want to run the V route during late nights too, then run the E express at all times. |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Apr 12 11:57:18 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:48:39 2008. From a previous message: "The (A) was *supposed* to run Express, and the (H) was *supposed to be the Local from Euclid to Court Street. When said (H) was discontinued (did it ever *really* run as originally designed?) the (A) became a local."Actually that is kind of debatable, considering the history of the IND as built and actually run, and as planned at various stages. Yes, the track maps strongly suggest that an HH Fulton Local train would have made all local stops from Court Street to the terminal, it is that the plans for the terminals of the Fulton Street line changed over time due to many circumstances. For example the A train first ended at Rockaway Avenue a local station, where somewhere near Lafayette Avenue, the C Concourse express joined the A-route to/from Manhattan in the late-1930's. However the Court Street shuttle (often called the HH) runs from about 1937 to 1946. There were a number of extensions of the route, and planned terminals that did not happen, as well as a "steal of a subway deal". Essentially the A-train was the only service that ran on the Fulton Street section on the weekends and nights for the last several decades. At some point, especially after the Rockaways sections are added to the A-train route, the E train ran along with the A-train on the Fulton line. This continues for a few decades with A and E-trains switching local and express duties in Brooklyn. However the E-trains generally ran along this Fulton Street and Rockaway sections during the rush hours - leaving the A-train to handle all of the stations during the nights and weekends. Only after the 1990's, after the C-train is extended to Brooklyn and/or the Rockaways - does the A-train begin to run express at times other than the rush hours. At the NYCSubway.Org website there is a wonderful document called, "History of the Independent Subway" that details many of the plans, ideas and actually happenings. Mike |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 12:22:03 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 10:37:16 2008. You have that mindset like most buffs or straphangers who can only see things one way.You suggest asking "How many people change from the local to the express at Roosevelt"? Why don't you also ask "How many people change from the express to the local at Roosevelt northbound PM rush"? |
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Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 12 13:02:49 2008, in response to Re: G Train Hearing at City Hall, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Apr 12 12:22:03 2008. Hmmm.... Good Question. But shouldn't that number be the same?sort of. ROAR |
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