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| Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters (550330) | |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 18:13:03 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 10 14:56:09 2008. Really? And you know this how? |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 18:13:58 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 10 17:31:15 2008. Do you really think anything has changed? |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:28:32 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 15:21:45 2008. Arguably, though, service to Brooklyn and New York is frequent enough during the AM peak period that there shouldn't be a hold for connections.It's not the subway where you can just pull out. These are SCHEDULED trains on the timetable. Tell someone that is relying on those timetables that their train wasn't held. Also, many of those brooklyn trains use different stops. Some stop at Nostrand, some stop at East New York, some stop at both East NY and Nostrand, some stop at neither. And that goes for the Penn Station line too. Some stop at Woodside, some stop at FOrest Hills, some stop at Kew Gardens. Some stop at only Woodside, some stop at all three. Some stop at only two of the three. Every train is different and scheduled to connect according to timetable. You can't pull them out without the proper connection being there, as you will then have people that read the timetable, were expecting the connection, whatever it may be, and now they are stuck without that connection. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:30:49 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 15:48:39 2008. Charles meant Locust Manor, not Springfield Gardens, it was a typo. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:32:22 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 18:08:44 2008. Yes, but you may not be accounting for interlocking before Jamaica, also that that dwell time at Jamaica may be necessary to allow for all the connection trains too. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 18:33:12 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 17:42:28 2008. The main reason is such a good reason that LIRR doesn't need any other reason. Assignment to a fare zone is as the train runs, not as the bird flies. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:36:09 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 18:10:18 2008. Uh no. Most people should not be cutting it so close that they are only leaving enough time to be running onto the platform as the train is pulling in. There are too many outside factors that can screw you up. That's just a gamble if that is what they want to do.If they change the 9:03 to 8:58, people will just cut it close by still only allowing a minute. No matter what time they change the train to idiots will be running from some direction because they cut it too close. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:38:28 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 17:14:19 2008. I always thought it was the other way around. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Thu Jan 10 18:44:18 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jan 9 13:24:47 2008. Get there early or to bad.I have that happen at Denville some times just part of life. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 18:44:36 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 18:33:12 2008. Just a side observation, I noticed that a ticket to Waterbury on the Metro-North Railroad is still cheaper than the ticket to Wassaic although Waterbury is a longer ride. And on that note it's cheaper to go from Hoboken to Port Jervis than it is to go from GCT-Waterbury/Wassaic IIRC. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 18:58:47 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:28:32 2008. It's not the subway where you can just pull out. These are SCHEDULED trains on the timetable. Tell someone that is relying on those timetables that their train wasn't held.The timetables have changed before. Every few months, changes are made, including to connecting trains. I'm not suggesting that we suddenly foist an unannounced schedule change on commuters, so I don't know why you're suggesting that I upset someone's expectations about connecting trains, which even nowadays are sometimes not met. If the LIRR eliminated the practice of holding for peak hour connections in the next timetable and eliminated that dwell time so that Jamaica was just another stop, more trains could make that routine stop instead of bypassing as is presently the case, with resultant overloading of some trains between NYP and Jamaica and relatively sparse loading of non-stop trains. Also, many of those brooklyn trains use different stops. Some stop at Nostrand, some stop at East New York, some stop at both East NY and Nostrand, some stop at neither. And that goes for the Penn Station line too. Some stop at Woodside, some stop at FOrest Hills, some stop at Kew Gardens. Some stop at only Woodside, some stop at all three. Some stop at only two of the three. Every train is different and scheduled to connect according to timetable. And that has what to do with the particular elimination of a hold for connections that I suggested? The train out of Far Rockaway - the one mentioned in the original post - arrives at Jamaica at 9:25am. It can be scheduled to depart a minute thereafter, cutting the running down time by at least 4 minutes. So what about the people on that Far Rockaway train who wanted other destinations? Well, none of them wanted HPA, since HPA service has ended already. They could still catch their present express train to NYP at 9:30. Or if they missed that, they can take the following train to New York, another NYP express, at 9:33. For Woodside, they already wait until 9:36 now (although that train could be under way at 9:34), and for Forest Hills and Kew Gardens they already presently wait until 9:44. What about the people on the Babylon train that connected with the Far Rockaway train who want a Brooklyn stop? No matter. At 9:36, the following train to Brooklyn makes all stops to FBA. That train actually gets into Jamaica at 9:33, so it could be set to depart a minute later. And this is at the shoulder of the AM peak period. When service is far more frequent as during the height of the rush, arranging connections is even more beside the point. At that point, one really is talking about subway-like frequencies of service. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:03:43 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 18:12:27 2008. If there's a train stopping at Springfield Gardens, I'm riding it.
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:06:28 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Jan 10 17:06:03 2008. Right, and typically the Ronkonkoma, Babylon, and Huntington trains, since they are the busiest lines, have the longest trains. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:06:43 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by FLASH GORDON on Thu Jan 10 18:44:18 2008. Speaking of Denville, that happened to me once. I had actually arrived early for the following train, but as I got there, the diesel train to Hoboken was pulling in. The engineer in the cab car asked whether we meant to get on to that Hoboken train. Others said no, I replied that if wouldn't be too much trouble, sure, and got on from the side opposite the platform. It was a quick ride to Hoboken and I took PATH into 33rd St. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:09:04 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 17:37:11 2008. The trains are longer on the busier lines, and they usually need the full length trains. The Flatbush line stations can't handle the longer trains they run on Babylon, Huntington, and Ronkonkoma. This isn't about "deserving", it's about operational functionality.And the transfer at Jamaica is a very simple cross the platform transfer. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:16:22 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 18:44:36 2008. Perhaps, and I don't know the fare structure there, but it's still not the same thing.... On the Far Rockaway line, you are talking people on the SAME TRAIN and same line would be paying less than people than people traveling less. You are proposing that people traveling all the way from Far Rockaway should be paying less than someone getting on the same train at Valley Stream. That would be ludicrous. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:17:54 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 18:44:36 2008. CDOT sets the Connecticut fares, not MTA, so that's probably why. You'll notice that the latest Metro North fare hikes do not apply to Connecticut stations. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Thu Jan 10 19:20:44 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:06:43 2008. HIThe parking area is on the west bound side at Denville and the station is on a curve. Lots of trains but I want to go to Penn station not Hoboken. Morristown the parking is on the east bound side right next to the track. FLASH GORDON |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:24:11 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 18:58:47 2008. The timetables have changed before. Every few months, changes are made, including to connecting trains. I'm not suggesting that we suddenly foist an unannounced schedule change on commuters, so I don't know why you're suggesting that I upset someone's expectations about connecting trains, which even nowadays are sometimes not met.You missed the point. You mentioned why perhaps they hold these trains when there are other trains on the same line coming within minutes. I mentioned that you can't just do that because not all trains stop at the same stations, even if using the same branch. Again, a minute here and a minute there is all accounted for. A train that leaves a little later may require some track or interlocking switches effecting another train leaving or arriving into Jamaica. And changing that second train may effect a third train, and then that effects some other train's timed slot into Penn, and this is a domino effect all over the railroad. It's not a matter of "just" changing one train. Changing one train can effect 5 or 6 trains on various lines, and thus conflicts at other stations, if not at Cedarhurst, perhaps Gibson, or perhaps even a meet at let's say Deer Park way down on the Ronkonkoma. That's not crazy talk, it's a real domino effect. The LIRR is a complicated system. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:24:12 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:32:22 2008. Nope.My idea won't work -- but not for that reason. There is an eastbound train at Valley Stream at 9:15. 3 trains, 2 tracks --> big problem. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:24:34 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by FLASH GORDON on Thu Jan 10 19:20:44 2008. But it's quicker to Hoboken! And even if you're continuing on to New York. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:25:22 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:17:54 2008. That probably also explains Port Jervis which operates through New Jersey. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:25:25 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:09:04 2008. The trains are longer on the busier lines, and they usually need the full length trains. The Flatbush line stations can't handle the longer trains they run on Babylon, Huntington, and Ronkonkoma. This isn't about "deserving", it's about operational functionality.According to my observations, the Huntington/Babylon trains that currently go to Flatbush Avenue during the rush usually only have 6 cars and seem to do fine with that amount, but maybe I am wrong. I've only observed one of those kind of trains twice, once at Hicksville and once at Rockville Centre, both times during the PM Rush. At Hicksville a huge crowd got off there, but it seemed like there was enough room on board. At Rockville Centre, not as many people got off, but the train did have a few standing passengers on it, in both cases, the sets were 6 cars long. I am not sure about the Ronkonkoma runs although I cannot imagine them having more than 8 cars. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:27:10 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:16:22 2008. Yes, no argument there no more, just an observation. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:28:38 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:24:12 2008. It's all a domino effect. As much as everyone complains, it's some complex job that the schedulers do on the LIRR. It's truly a remarkable task to complete with SO many trains going in so many different directions onto to and from so many branches....and often many sharing the same tracks, switches, etc.It is remarkable. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:28:57 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:17:54 2008. I think that regardless of who is in charge of the fare situation it's still an interesting observation, although I understand why it's like that. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by FLASH GORDON on Thu Jan 10 19:29:42 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:36:09 2008. Just have their mothers change their dieppers sooner.FLASH GORDON |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:30:22 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:24:11 2008. No, I'm saying that even if one doesn't make any change at Cedarhurst, eliminate hold for connection at Jamaica; let the train to Brooklyn proceed instead of holding it for 5 minutes. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:32:51 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:25:25 2008. Trains bound to FBA are shorter than those headed to NYP, no matter where they originated. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:33:46 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:28:57 2008. It's definitely interesting. By the way, CDOT is going to keep their fares the same? I haven't heard anything yet. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:36:02 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 18:36:09 2008. I think you misunderstood my question. I wasn't proposing to move the train time by 5 minutes.It is clear that you (and most others in this thread) believe that the railroad needn't make any adjustment to their schedules/practices if they have a situation that requires commuters to arrive two or three minutes earlier than the posted departure time. I'm sure that all of you believe that there is some amount of time for which it is unreasonable for the railroad to expect that people will know to arrive a certain number of minutes before the posted departure time. For example, it would seem we could all agree that if passengers had to arrive 30 minutes before the posted departure time that this would be unreasonable. So the question I'm asking is -- At what point do you think the railroad should take action of some kind? For example -- someone described the situation whereby, even arriving at the station 15 minutes early they are unable to use the TVM and as such could be subjected to paying the penalty fare. Most seemed to think that was unreasonable and that the LIRR ought to address that by making some kind of accomodation (waive the on-board fee, add another TVM at the station). So arriving 15 minutes early and having a problem should require the LIRR to take action, while arriving 2 minutes early and having a problem does not. My question is when the situation requires that the railroad take some type of corrective action. Is it if the situation requires people to arrive 5 minutes early? 10 minutes early? What do you (and others) think? |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:38:32 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 19:27:10 2008. Okay, I am just metioning it because you mentioned something to the effect of the demographics of Far Rockaway vs people at other stations on the Far Rockaway line could be a for the LIRR not wanting as you phrased it, "I think it's just the LIRR not wanting the "ne'er do wells" of Far Rockaway on their trains.". That couldn't be further from the truth, as it's travel related, not demographic related.It just so happens that Far Rockaway just happens to be in Queens and the stations "closer" to Jamaica are in Nassau. And that's just a victim of the way the line was originally built as a loop using the A line. When that was severed, it sort of made an anormality requiring the fare structure it gets. Again, no one mentioned how it was handled years ago when a train going either direction from Far Rockaway could be going to Penn Station or Flatbush. How did they handle the fare there before the subway took away the Rockaway line? |
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Re: Charming Conductor and unpreparted passengeHow the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:43:54 2008, in response to Re: Charming Conductor and unpreparted passengeHow the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 10 11:28:58 2008. I think she should have had you tossed in jail with the key thrown away... |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:46:04 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:25:22 2008. Yep. Same thing. You always see some intersting fare relationships at the NY/NJ and NY/CT state lines. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:46:43 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:36:02 2008. So the question I'm asking is -- At what point do you think the railroad should take action of some kind? For example -- someone described the situation whereby, even arriving at the station 15 minutes early they are unable to use the TVM and as such could be subjected to paying the penalty fare. Most seemed to think that was unreasonable and that the LIRR ought to address that by making some kind of accomodation (waive the on-board fee, add another TVM at the station).A agree with the ticket thing because it's way easier to add a ticket machine where needed than shuffle the schedule and all the trains that are effected. And the ticket machine is LITERALLY 10 or 15 minutes needed to buy your ticket at some stations sometimes. THAT is way more than the 5 minutes that almost everyone should allow to arrive at any station when trying to catch a train. So arriving 15 minutes early and having a problem should require the LIRR to take action, while arriving 2 minutes early and having a problem does not. Absolutely. 15 minutes is way different than 2. Even 2 minutes may be cutting your time to risky! My question is when the situation requires that the railroad take some type of corrective action. Is it if the situation requires people to arrive 5 minutes early? 10 minutes early? My opinion is most people should allow at least 5 minutes. How can you not? There are many factors that can effect people's getting to the station, and leaving a minute just won't account for that. A person walking slowly in front of you car at a stop sign when driving to the station can mess you up if it's that close! Too many factors to not allow at least up to about 5 minutes. 10 minutes would be a bit extreme, although not out of the rehlm. However, if they said the Cedarhurst problem was effecting people coming up to 8-10 minutes early, I would say there is a SEVERE problem. However, I can't find that same sympathy for people that only leave "3" minutes to catch their train. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:54:46 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 18:33:12 2008. Assignment to a fare zone is as the train runs, not as the bird flies.It isn't even that. Fare zone assignments were made back in the early 70's and were pretty clearly made to make conductors lives easier when collecting fares. Rockville Centre is 21.1 miles from Penn -- yet it was put in Zone 5 (which was later combined with zones 6 and 7 to create the current Zone 7). Meanwhile, the following stations are in Zone 4: Far Rockaway (23 miles from Penn) Hempstead (21.6 miles from Penn) West Hempstead (22.5 miles from Penn) East Williston (21.6 miles from Penn). But -- if you put the three terminal stations into Zone 5, then conductors would have to pay attention to which passengers were getting off at Zone 4 or Zone 5 stations. By lumping them all into Zone 4, conductors could basically take tickets after Jamaica and only be concerned with anyone who boarded at an intermediate station. Similarly, if they had put Rockville Centre into Zone 4, then they'd have to pay attention to whether people were buying tickets for RVC but staying on the train until Baldwin or Freeport on those 12-car RVC/Baldwin/Freeport express trains that they tend to cover with just 2 or 3 conductors. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:56:41 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 19:30:22 2008. No, I'm saying that even if one doesn't make any change at Cedarhurst, eliminate hold for connection at Jamaica; let the train to Brooklyn proceed instead of holding it for 5 minutes.Right, I understand that is what you mean. But you can't do that for many trains. Many of those trains rely on those connections. Taking that away may mess up some line's sechduled connection to or from that train. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:58:49 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:56:41 2008. Right, but you can do it for this train. And this train is the only train in the entire system that has a scheduled 5 minute dwell at Jamaica.Nearly every other train has a 2 minute dwell, with perhaps a 3 minute dwell here or there. Trains with no connection are scheduled for a 1 minute dwell. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 20:01:35 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:54:46 2008. Interesting. I also noticed they constantly are eliminating more and more zones. There are a lot of numbers missing, and have been for years as they eliminated zones over the years. I think even Patchogue was combined with Sayville and stuff like that probably in the most recent mergers of zones. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:08:07 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 11:34:33 2008. Years ago (and perhaps now, but I haven't ridden the line lately), there was significant off-peak travel between the stations between Flatbush and Jamaica and Laurelton/Locust Manor. I have to assume that the 15 minute LIRR ride was significantly better than whatever train/bus combination you would have otherwise had to come up with.Interestingly, however, when the LIRR switched Long Beach from a weekend Flatbush line to a weekend Penn line they added Rosedale/Laurelton/Locust Manor to the Long Beach line on weekends and made the Far Rock trains express between Valley Stream and Jamaica and then local to Flatbush. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 20:09:02 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 19:58:49 2008. That's my point. Of course, in practice, the connecting trains more often have higher dwell times than the timetable indicates compared to the non-connecting trains as well.The train is question is very much an odd one in terms of that large amount of scheduled dwell time. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:12:21 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 20:09:02 2008. When someone (probably you) pointed it out here a few months ago, I was shocked.I consider myself pretty knowledgable about LIRR operations (especially since I don't work for them) and I'd never seen anything like that before. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:16:15 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 20:01:35 2008. At one time, all the numbers were used from 1-15 (Montauk was alone in Zone 15, IIRC). If you buy a ticket on board the train and look at the system map on the back, you can still see where the lines between all 15 zones were, because the stations are spaced a bit further apart at the zone breaks.There was also Zone 1A and Zone 1B. Stations on the Flatbush line were all in Zone 1B, while the stations west of Jamaica going to Penn (as well as Elmhurst and Shea Stadium) were all in Zone 1A. Travel to Zone 1B was less expensive than travel to Zone 1A. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:22:29 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by AlM on Thu Jan 10 12:57:00 2008. The only difference here is that the LIRR is the agency that created the situation because their eastbound (southwestbound) train was running late, thereby creating the situation that caused people to miss the westbound (northeastbound) train.Other than that, there is no difference. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 20:26:06 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:12:21 2008. It's definitely the largest scheduled dwell time I've seen in LIRR.Although shockingly, I was curious to see whether it's the sole record-holder for longest scheduled westbound dwell, and it's not! Tying it, again on the Far Rockaway Branch, is no. 2859: a layover from 5:10 to 5:15pm. On the Hempstead Branch, there is no. 719: 5 minutes. But Hempstead is where also resides the king of dwell time! No. 761 - and if this is a typo it's in the printed schedules too - has a whopping NINE MINUTES of dwell time, from 5:23 to 5:32pm !!! |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 20:27:56 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Jan 10 20:26:06 2008. Mercifully, I stopped looking for the train with a 10-minute scheduled dwell. If it exists, the only reason I'll probably want to know is so that I won't be on it. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 20:28:25 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:16:15 2008. I have a 1972 set of LIRR schedules, and remember seeing the 1A and 1B zones. I don't know if every 1-15 zone was still on there off hand though without looking at it. I do remember the Zone 15 for Montauk however, and I think most if not all were still there in 1972. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 20:35:50 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 10 20:08:07 2008. There still is, but the Far Rockaway trains skipping it on the weekends defeat the whole purpose of it, I myself remember when Long Beach was a Flatbush line, it was used A LOT during the summer for beachgoers, including myself, it must've happened around 1999-2000. Was the Far Rockaway branch originally a Penn Station line on the weekends? Or was it like the West Hempstead now and only went to Valley Stream/Jamaica? |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 20:39:04 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 19:38:32 2008. I wonder why the LIRR didn't cut it back at Inwood for, to compete with the (A)? Was there no other choice? I ask this because of the preference of the (A) and the nearby N31/N32 bus routes, along with the low usage of the stations (then again, they could have been well used stations until recently), and the LIRR is really meant to serve Nassau/Suffolk. |
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Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 10 20:57:19 2008, in response to Re: How the LIRR and Nassau PD Conspire Against Commuters, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 10 20:39:04 2008. I don't know. The original Mott Ave station was actually on the other side of Mott Ave from the current Mott Ave station the A uses. THAT was the original LIRR Far Rockaway station. There was no station where the current LIRR Far Rockaway station is today. The next stop after Mott Ave was Inwood.The original Mott Ave station when the LIRR operated the whole Rockaway line looked like all the side platform stations on the subway's route. |
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