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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 00:40:53 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Fri Dec 14 18:46:46 2007. From the report:"11. The failure of the carbody (underframe) end structure of the 1000-series Metrorail cars may make them susceptible to telescoping and potentially subject to a catastrophic compromise of the occupant survival space." 12. The failure to have minimum crashworthiness standards for preventing telescoping of rail transit cars in collisions places an unnecessary risk on passengers..." |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 09:36:34 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Dec 14 22:46:42 2007. Even if the rolling stock were available, I don't think 90 second headways would be practical due to station dwell times. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Dec 15 11:47:15 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 09:36:34 2007. Even if the rolling stock were available, I don't think 90 second headways would be practical due to station dwell times.Running longer trains on shorter headways would likely allow for shorter dwell times. Fewer passengers waiting on the platforms would takes less time for them to board. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 12:24:55 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Dec 15 11:47:15 2007. But of course with the longer trains the shorter headways wouldn't be necessary...Maybe LA had the right idea after all when they only made the platforms long enough for 6-car trains. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Dec 15 12:42:40 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Thu Dec 13 17:04:18 2007. Nobody, including me, LIKES fare hikes. But sometimes there's no realistic alternative. Look at what "saving" the nickel fare in NYC did, and "saving" the 50 cent fare in the 1970s... |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sat Dec 15 13:04:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by rideonrulez on Fri Dec 14 11:50:08 2007. The way that Catoe can fix the system is by getting his bum thrown out. I'm currently a university student in D.C. and ride the Metro regularly. This past summer, I had a summer job with a daily commute between Farragut North and Union Station. Traveling back and forth five days a week, I got caught in a breakdown about once every two weeks. A few times on the Red Line, there were door problems and the train I was on would be unloaded at somewhere like Metro Center, and everyone would have to cram onto the next train. This happened on the Blue Line a few times. Then, there was the Rosslyn Tunnel breakdown on the Blue/Orange Line back in early August when the train I was on got stuck in the tunnel for an hour and all hell broke loose after finally getting to Rosslyn to the point where they had to shut down the station until they could get trains running again. There were also many trains back in the summer with air-conditioning that didn't work, an experience I've never seen before this past summer, Then on the weekends, there would be trackwork--for example, out on the Red Line between Medical Center and Bethesda--and passengers between that point and Shady Grove would have a notice on the WMATA website to leave extra time. These advisories forgot to mention that service would be cut everywhere else on the Red Line and what should have been a seven-minute wait became fifteen or eighteen minutes with neither warning nor explanation. Also, Catoe wanted to cut late night weekend service which personally was important to me as I worked a restaurant job that went on until midnight or one in the morning, and then one of his goons recently tried to cut train lengths on the weekend which resulted in massive overcrowding.In addition to all of this, I also used the 80 bus--which was a direct route between my workplace and home--and the Circulator for appointments and errands in Georgetown. The Circulator was often up to half-an-hour late, and the 80 bus would often magically disappear late at night with no explanation and the driver of the next bus becoming indignant when I would ask him if he knew anything about the bus that was supposed to show up half an hour before him. I've experienced Metrorail breakdowns, frequent Metrobus lateness and disappearances, and lackluster and sometimes downright rude customer service on the D.C. Metro. Then, I've watched Catoe's misguided focus on cutting costs at the expense of system aesthetics, service, and screwing with car layouts to squeeze ten more people in each at rush hour rather than decently maintain the fleet and system to prevent problems from happening in the first place. Now, there's this horrible fare hike which was unpopular from the start and yet Metro's board approved a variation without even trying to look at alternatives such as perhaps lobbying local governments to take care of a public good through increased subsidies or a loan. Instead, Metrorail riders are disregarded and punished with a 20-some percent fare hike for taking public transportation in the first place. I'm convinced that Catoe and his goons are too concerned with the bottom line than operating a system designed to serve the public. Don't get me wrong; I fully understand the value of business-like fiscal responsibility in a capitalist society, but Catoe has thus far demonstrated that he and his lackeys either lack the respect or knowledge that a public transportation entity exists to serve the public EFFECTIVELY and EFFICIENTLY. I say throw the lot of them out and put someone in charge who cares about a public transportation system and the riders for whom it is designed. |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 15 13:22:04 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sat Dec 15 13:04:08 2007. I don't get it. When I used the Metro it was reliable. I never had to wait more than 5 minutes for a Red line train. Sure it was overcrowded but considering how it stopped at most of the tourist attractions as well as densely populated Montgomery County I could accept that. The only line that was questionable was the Green-Sunday service on the Green line is mediocre at best. They just got rid of those idiotic midday short runs to Grosvenor. They extended the Blue Line to Largo Town Center. Yes the Metro has flaws (no system outside of Moscow is perfect) but people talk as if the Metro is some run down system in a 3rd world country. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 13:52:15 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 15 13:22:04 2007. Because it is.The breakdowns Mirau spoke of are far too frequent to be acceptable. When I rode the New York subway 2x every day in 2004 for a few months, including some weekends, I did not experience a single breakdown. I experienced one delay on the Lex IRT due to a sick passenger (I helped a police officer wrestle a "post-ictal" (combative, confused man after a seizure) patient to a bench and then strapped him onto a stretcher; the train was then released to continue). But that was it. Metrorail has an operational problem, and it will only get worse as the system ages and expansions are built. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 14:03:04 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 13:52:15 2007. I don't know much about WMATA's operations, but so far as maintenance goes, they are reporting MDBFs for newer cars that are, e.g., much lower than the latest numbers I have seen from NYCT, which as we all know has cars from the 1960s still in service.Some statistics I was able to find are relayed here |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 14:15:39 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 14:03:04 2007. Agreed.One way to improve WMATA would be this: Have Metrorail pay NYCTA for somebody like Train Dude to spend 3 months at WMATA helping overhaul procedures in the repair shops, improve maintenance management and teach WMATA employees on the finer points of taking care of equipment. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 14:40:56 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 14:15:39 2007. That's a good idea. I know that LACMTA consults with NYCT on a variety of issues although to my knowledge they haven't had NYCT employees working out here. All USA TA's should use NYCT as a resource as much as they can.I get the impression from both here and the news articles that WMATA's problems are prevalent throughout all layers of their organization. They need help everywhere. Someone like TD could only do so much. |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Dec 15 16:59:38 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 13:52:15 2007. To be honest, with the numbers being stated, you would probably not experience many breakdowns on the train you are on.Even taking the lowest MDBF's listed in the news article about car 6321, 500 Miles, it would take many trips before one was on the train which broke down(Especially since, with long trains of EMUs, you dont have to remove a train from service, even if one car is entirely broken). I have been riding C3s being pulled by DEDM30s since they arrived, and have never been on one that has broken down(mind you, as I am at school, now I am a seasonal user, but it still puts the numbers into perspective.) Also notable-- The lowest WMATA rail numbers are higher then the highest NYCT bus numbers. Not saying that WMATA's numbers are good-- They arent. But to say that they are low enough to make it likely that someone would be delayed isnt true. They are bad, not because they are a problem for day to day service, but because they could be so much better. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sat Dec 15 18:07:50 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Forest Glen on Sat Dec 15 13:22:04 2007. The Metro isn't a bad system. I love the Metro. Aesthetically and in theory operation-wise, I would say that it is one of the best of the world. However, that's operation in theory. In reality, more midday trains to Shady Grove do me no good if the one I'm on has malfunctioning doors and is taken out of service at Metro Center. An extension to Largo Town Center is great for the people who live and work out that way, but it does me no good if I'm on a train with 600 commuters in the evening rush hour that is stuck broken down in the Rosslyn Tunnel for an hour. Taking a bus anywhere does me no good if I'm waiting for a bus for 35 minutes that in the end never shows up. Catoe put forth and somehow bamboozled the board into accepting his fare hike.What is the purpose of the fare hike? To balance the budget. No distinct service increases, no promises of improved reliability, and not even nice-sounding lies connecting the fare increase with the future Silver Line. Catoe won't even admit that he's running a dysfunctional system. Every time something goes wrong, it's just "Oops! We'll try better next time, lol!" Then, he and his cronies go about their merry way figuring out how many seats they would have to rip out to squeeze ten more people into each car...while conveniently forgetting that it doesn't matter how many people can fit into a car if it breaks down at a choke point in the system at rush hour thanks to shoddy maintenance. Catoe's only merit thus far has been his commitment to cut costs. However, seeing how he has targeted service (which is nine times out of ten bad to cut) and system aesthetics to do this and yet still needed his precious fare hike to balance the budget, I would say that he has quite thoroughly failed in this as well. Then, he has this mindset where he wants to rip carpet out of railcars, install bench seating, clutter stations with advertising, install supposedly energy-efficient and definitely irritating bug zapper-like lighting as was done at Foggy Bottom-GWU station, follow the trend of the obnoxious, new "STEP BACK DOORS CLOSING!!" messages with frequent and equally obnoxious public service announcements, and overall, downgrading to NYC MTA "ambiance" without caring to upgrade to NYC MTA service. In short, Catoe has done nothing beneficial for Metro and should be thrown out accordingly before he can screw anything else up. Under him, Metro's operations are gilded. The stations and overall ambiance of the system are timelessly brilliant, but ultimately superficial as basic maintenance and operation of the system are piss-poor. Now, if Catoe were to actually get the boot as he should, what would it take to pull Dan Tangherlini away from the Fenty Administration and get him back in charge of Metro? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:36:48 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 13:52:15 2007. I think Mirau has bad luck. As Lincoln pointed out, the chance of being stuck in a delay is extremely small, and the chance of being on an offloaded train is even smaller. The chance of those events occuring to a single person multiple times over a 1-2 week span is even smaller than that. Let's put things in perspective. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:40:08 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sat Dec 15 18:07:50 2007. Catoe was not in charge when the door chimes were changed. I also think the new lights at Foggy Bottom predate Catoe. At least if you are going to blame him for making mistakes, blame him for a decision he made himself.It is a bit early to judge Catoe, since has not been on the job all that long. However, it can be noted things haven't improved significantly since the start of his tenure. If anything, it shows that Richard White was not the problem, and that the problems Metro is facing are universal, regardless of who the GM is. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:02:19 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:36:48 2007. It's possibleMirau is an outlyer in a statistical distribution. On the other hand, the Red Line is very busy, so how many thousands of other people were affected by that train, over and over? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:04:21 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:40:08 2007. "If anything, it shows that Richard White was not the problem, and that the problems Metro is facing are universal, regardless of who the GM is. "If Catoe's performance continues to suck eggs then it could make me lean in that direction too. On the other hand WMATA could have two sucky managers in a row. If we put David Gunn in charge of WMATA today, and there was no improvement, then you'd really convince me... |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Dec 16 06:35:58 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 15 12:24:55 2007. Maybe LA had the right idea after all when they only made the platforms long enough for 6-car trains.I recall asking shortly after that railroad opened on I believe USENET, 'How long are the platforms on the Los Angles subway?'. The answer I got was 600'. Are you telling me that the answer I got then was wrong and the platforms on that railroad are really only 450' long? John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sun Dec 16 11:21:16 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:40:08 2007. "I think Mirau has bad luck. As Lincoln pointed out, the chance of being stuck in a delay is extremely small, and the chance of being on an offloaded train is even smaller. The chance of those events occuring to a single person multiple times over a 1-2 week span is even smaller than that. Let's put things in perspective."Okay, Oren, so let's assume I have bad luck. I'll get caught in a rush hour breakdown one week, and two weeks later, it'll be an off-hour problem or unannounced service disruption. Two weeks later, a Sunday Metrobus won't show up. Even if I have downright bad luck in the system and experience problems more often that most, that shouldn't lessen the point that there are problems in the system. For every train I'm on that breaks down, there are other people elsewhere who become inconvenienced by the problem. The focus should not be to minimize however many problems one can experience in a given period; it should be to minimize the problems and breakdowns on the system, period. Even if say only two percent of Metro riders are inconvenienced by system-related problems in any given period, it is Metro's duty to fix those problems so that all can get to where they are going without worry of something going wrong. That is their responsibility as operators of a public transportation agency. "Catoe was not in charge when the door chimes were changed. I also think the new lights at Foggy Bottom predate Catoe. At least if you are going to blame him for making mistakes, blame him for a decision he made himself." I'm not blaming Catoe for the obnoxious door chimes (though back in November, I did hear an even newer, slightly more curt but equally obnoxious variation on a rush hour Blue Line train). I'm fully aware that the change to the Randi Miller recordings was Richard White's screwup. What annoys me are all the other messages that followed the change like the garbled messages about broken elevators, the lengthy messages about service disruptions, the Spanish recordings, and the "SEE IT, SAY IT" annoyances that are played after the departure of every Metro. I'm not saying Metro should not say anything leave riders in the dark about what is going about, but most of the info is redundant and already on the PIMS system. Either put it all on the PIMS so that the station can be nice and peaceful as it was designed to be or put it all on recording so that I can actually see when my train is coming. However, making messages so omnipresent that people hear, see, taste, and smell that "if they see it, say it" turns a good message into an ubiquitous farce. Also, the Foggy Bottom bug zapper lights were done under Catoe's watch. Foggy Bottom is one of my home stations, and I watched them get installed in early spring 2007. Besides, according to that Washington Post article back in July about Metro aesthetics, it was Catoe who was originally making a fuss about screwing with lighting in the first place. "It is a bit early to judge Catoe, since has not been on the job all that long. However, it can be noted things haven't improved significantly since the start of his tenure. If anything, it shows that Richard White was not the problem, and that the problems Metro is facing are universal, regardless of who the GM is." It means that neither White nor Catoe have had the balls to stand up and tell local public officials that their public transportation system is rotting and needs desperate attention and funding to catch up on neglected maintenance and return the system to working order. Ridership and demand are increasing, and at the same time, driving is becoming more expensive. There are no plans for expansion, and no major service improvements aside from a few more eight-car rush hour trains and testing cars with more seats ripped out to squeeze ten more people per car. Catoe needs to stop lying to himself that Metro is peachy keen and stop punishing riders with ideas of ridiculous service cuts and fare hikes without system improvement. Without decent leadership, Metro will be a mess. Many of us seem to agree that in a year Catoe has accomplished virtually nothing positive. I only wonder for how long must he consistently fail and have no direction for development or improvement before others agree that he needs to be thrown out and replaced. By the way, the name is Mirai. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 16 12:58:59 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Dec 16 06:35:58 2007. Yup. I've even seen people on rail forums state that our platforms are 600' just like WMATA. The fact is that when we run 6 cars they take up the entire platform, so either our platforms are 450' or are rail cars are longer than we were told! ;)You can see 6 cars in this video. The 6-car marker is at the other end of the platform. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Dec 16 17:36:33 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:02:19 2007. Many thousands can be impacted. However, out of those thousands, how often is it the same people? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Dec 16 17:37:26 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 21:04:21 2007. David Gunn left WMATA due to issues with the Board. I have said for some time and still believe the Board is probably a larger problem than the GM. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 18:03:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Dec 16 17:36:33 2007. A substantial proportion, even a majority are likely to be the same people, while others are new to the situation.There is no way to minimize or sugar coat this. If I am riding Metrorail and mytrain breaks down on a regular schedule like that, it counts as a major fuck-up. There is nothing you can say or point to that minimizes it. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 16 18:06:27 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Dec 16 17:37:26 2007. Even if I agreed with you (and I disagree with you, but it's not 100% because the Board does have responsibility). - Either way, Metrorail is headed for a meltdown. Maybe not tomorrow, or next month. But it will happen. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Dec 16 18:29:32 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 16 12:58:59 2007. Thank you for that clarification.That confirms and makes fact that LAMTA Metro is a 450’ platform railroad along with Miami MDT Metrorail and MTA Baltimore Metro. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 17 18:24:39 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Dec 15 19:36:48 2007. If you want to put things into perspective, just look at WMATA's website (www.wmata.com).You can look at expurgated rail daily summaries from the past several years, and a simple browsing will convince you that rail delays/disruptions are up substantially. These summaries are all under "yesterday's service" from the home page. I know you said before that you don't like the rail daily summaries because they do not describe what you experienced, but you'll have to step out of your shoes and into a system-wide perspective for a little while. |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Dec 17 18:29:42 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 17 18:24:39 2007. It could also be that they are better at reporting and tracking the disruptions. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 17 20:35:01 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 17 18:24:39 2007. I just said they aren't 100% accurate or detailed enough to reflect reality in my experience. That said, I'm well aware that there have been more incidents recently and don't believe I have denied that fact. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Mon Dec 17 21:57:22 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 17 20:35:01 2007. Well, you admit that you believe that Metro has more problems than you have experienced. However, when I mention my frequent problems on the Metro, you write me off as an anomaly, saying "I think [Mirai] has bad luck....Let's put things in perspective." Good experiences are no more valid than bad, and wherever there are bad experiences at the fault of Metro, there are problems that Metro must fix. I commented about Metro's operational problems elsewhere in the topic which seems to have ended with my post, so I'll include a small quote of that one here."The focus should not be to minimize however many problems one can experience in a given period; it should be to minimize the problems and breakdowns on the system, period. Even if say only two percent of Metro riders are inconvenienced by system-related problems in any given period, it is Metro's duty to fix those problems so that all can get to where they are going without worry of something going wrong. That is their responsibility as operators of a public transportation agency." |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 15:08:57 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Mon Dec 17 21:57:22 2007. I pass you off as an anomaly because you seem to be the only person who has so much trouble. You must remember that the number of trips affected by breakdowns is still a fairly small number when compared with the number of trips taken each day. I have been using Metro for over 20 years, as both a daily rider and occasional user for various periods during that time, and I can count the number of times I've been on an offloaded train on one hand (I've been caught in delays plenty more times, but not on the problem train itself). You seem to be exceptionally unlucky. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 15:21:55 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 17 20:35:01 2007. "I just said they aren't 100% accurate or detailed enough to reflect reality in my experience."LOL! That's great! Why don't you call up WMATA and tell them, "My personal railfanning experience is much more reliable than your tallying daily breakdowns. Instead of providing your data to customers, just give them my email address and I'll tell them what I think they should know." While you're at it, maybe you could send each of them an autographed Metrorail car serial number. It's a collector's piece they'll treasure forever. On second thought, why not just go to a bar and offer to foam all over their beer to give it a bigger head. That's a better use of your time... |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 15:23:23 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Mon Dec 17 21:57:22 2007. I like what you posted. I just hope WMATA will one day be up to the task. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Tue Dec 18 16:53:09 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 15:08:57 2007. Well, out of the people here, you and Forest Glen seem to be the only ones who seem to have nothing but super special awesome experiences on Metro. Seeing how more people aren't speaking up with experiences on Metro similar to yours, I believe that would also make you an anomaly. You're just a lucky one who experiences few problems rather than someone like me who experiences many. Besides, you just admitted that even if you rarely get caught on a broken down train, you've been delayed by them a number of times. A delay is just as bad as a broken down train. Let's say people on a broken down train had to be on that specific train to make a connection. They've been unloaded somewhere and will now miss their connection. Some people on the next train will probably have to be somewhere else necessitating being on that specific train and will now miss their connections thanks to the domino effect from the problem train breaking down.However often this happens to any given individual should not be the focus. Neither my experience nor yours should be a disregarded anomaly. What ideally should become an anomaly is when there is a problem in the system. The focus should be that these problems are happening, and that in any respectable transportation system, they should NOT be happening. Therefore, everything should be done by Metro and local governments to stop the problems from happening. That should be the mindset of everyone at Metro so that Metro can properly take care of the entire public as it is supposed to do. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 17:39:27 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Tue Dec 18 16:53:09 2007. "You're just a lucky one who experiences few problems rather than someone like me who experiences many."I've experienced one BIE on Metrorail (yellow line, on the Potomac bridge) in rides, but my many rides do not come close to the rides you take. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 17:52:57 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Tue Dec 18 16:53:09 2007. Why don't you tell the rest of us how long you've been relying on Metro, whether as a frequent or occasional rider. I was a frequent rider around the time of the Blue Line Mutiny in the mid-1990s, as well as the numerous Red Line delays in 2003-2004 due to broken rails, the huge snowstorm that sidelined the fleet, and the construction at New York Avenue, and only rarely had problems even close to what you describe.Your logic about being offloaded is flawed. In many cases, a train is offloaded, the train immediately behind might be delayed due to extended dwells or waiting behind the train being offloaded, but every other train on the line is practically unaffected. Only during rush hours is it likely that the most common problems, such as a door malfunction, station overrun, or sick passenger, will tie up more than one train. While more people are riding at rush hours than off hours, I don't think a stat is available to determine if most disruptions occur during rush hour, and there are plenty of instances where the bulk of a day's disruptions occur outside of rush hour. If you build 5-10 minutes extra into your travel time to account for potential delays, you should be fine almost all the time. Only in rare circumstances is that not enough leeway to balance out any lost time due to delays in my experiences. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 17:59:21 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 17:52:57 2007. "While more people are riding at rush hours than off hours, I don't think a stat is available to determine if most disruptions occur during rush hour, and there are plenty of instances where the bulk of a day's disruptions occur outside of rush hour."That's why you don't work at Metro. You won't find that stat hidden under car serial numbers. :0) "If you build 5-10 minutes extra into your travel time to account for potential delays, you should be fine almost all the time." Let's see, my BIE chewed up over 30 minutes. And that was a NBIE followed by the train being reset and moving again. "Only in rare circumstances is that not enough leeway to balance out any lost time due to delays in my foamer fantasies." True statement by you, Oren. I just wanted to correct a typo for you, no big deal. :0) |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 18:28:47 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 17:52:57 2007. Blue line mutiny in the mid-90's?The Cherry Blossom Mutiny is still often discussed, but that was April 1999. |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 18:32:38 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 15:08:57 2007. While I agree that some were more lucky than others, I strongly urge everyone to look at the system-wide daily stats on WMATA's web page under "yesterday's service". You can clearly trace back how starting in April of this year, breakdowns and delays began increasing.One gotcha with the daily summary stats: they do not include delays due to planned single-tracking. Those rarely happened 10 years ago but are happening almost every day and evening now. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 18:37:38 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 18:28:47 2007. Was it 1999? I was trying to guestimate the date on that one without looking for any references, and on second thought, I realize it couldn't have been in the mid-1990s since White's tenure started in 1996. Thanks for the correction. |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 18:40:09 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 18:37:38 2007. Ah, you just have to claim "mid-Lasnerian-90's" :-). Google Lasnerian if you aren't familiar with the term! |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 18:41:41 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 18:40:09 2007. I'll keep that in mind for next time... |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 20:30:24 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Sun Dec 16 11:21:16 2007. Let's stick to Metrorail. Metrobus is a whole different story.The focus should not be to minimize however many problems one can experience in a given period; it should be to minimize the problems and breakdowns on the system, period. Even if say only two percent of Metro riders are inconvenienced by system-related problems in any given period, it is Metro's duty to fix those problems so that all can get to where they are going without worry of something going wrong. That is their responsibility as operators of a public transportation agency. Please find where I have denied this sentiment. However, to pass off your experience as "normal" would be quite a stretch from reality, and you should stop trying to do so. I'm not blaming Catoe for the obnoxious door chimes (though back in November, I did hear an even newer, slightly more curt but equally obnoxious variation on a rush hour Blue Line train). I'm fully aware that the change to the Randi Miller recordings was Richard White's screwup. As Ron would say, do your homework. It wasn't Richard White's project, either. Your experience on the Blue Line sounds like you got one of the trains that first had the announcements, and then they redid it once it had been piloted to make it work better. They probably decided there was no need to update the trains they used for the pilot, and you got one of those. There are only 6-12 of those, if even that many. Is it really that big a deal? It is good you never rode Breda 3121 before the new chimes were developed or before that car was rehabbed. What annoys me are all the other messages that followed the change like the garbled messages about broken elevators, the lengthy messages about service disruptions, the Spanish recordings, and the "SEE IT, SAY IT" annoyances that are played after the departure of every Metro. I'm not saying Metro should not say anything leave riders in the dark about what is going about, but most of the info is redundant and already on the PIMS system. Either put it all on the PIMS so that the station can be nice and peaceful as it was designed to be or put it all on recording so that I can actually see when my train is coming. However, making messages so omnipresent that people hear, see, taste, and smell that "if they see it, say it" turns a good message into an ubiquitous farce. You can't have it both ways. Yes, the sound system doesn't work too well with the vaults, but they are working to improve the quality of announcements. PIMS cannot be relied on for all system announcements, many of those displays are poorly placed and are obstructed, not to mention, they are difficult to see from far away. if they didn't make announcements, you would be complaining that they weren't keeping you informed of delays and that the system is horrible. I think the balance is fairly appropriate. You seem to forget there was once a time where there were no PIMS displays, information about delays and elevator outages was only able to be relayed over the station's PA system, and you had no idea how many minutes away the next train was until you could see its headlights or the edge lights flashed. Also, the Foggy Bottom bug zapper lights were done under Catoe's watch. Foggy Bottom is one of my home stations, and I watched them get installed in early spring 2007. Besides, according to that Washington Post article back in July about Metro aesthetics, it was Catoe who was originally making a fuss about screwing with lighting in the first place. Foggy Bottom is one of the darkest stations in the system. They need to improve the lighting there, and that was a fine first step. Now they need to finish with the rest of the station. Many Metro managers have talked about improving lighting, none of them ever seem to actually do it. It means that neither White nor Catoe have had the balls to stand up and tell local public officials that their public transportation system is rotting and needs desperate attention and funding to catch up on neglected maintenance and return the system to working order. Ridership and demand are increasing, and at the same time, driving is becoming more expensive. There are no plans for expansion, and no major service improvements aside from a few more eight-car rush hour trains and testing cars with more seats ripped out to squeeze ten more people per car. Wake up already. White, Tangherlini, and Catoe have all done this, but clearly you (and the local politicians and feds) paid no attention. Ever hear of the MetroMatters program? Expansion money is separate from operating/maintenance funds, we've been through that already, and the system will be expanded further. Running additional 8 car trains is a major change if you ask me. What do you consider it to be? Catoe needs to stop lying to himself that Metro is peachy keen and stop punishing riders with ideas of ridiculous service cuts and fare hikes without system improvement. Without decent leadership, Metro will be a mess. Many of us seem to agree that in a year Catoe has accomplished virtually nothing positive. I only wonder for how long must he consistently fail and have no direction for development or improvement before others agree that he needs to be thrown out and replaced. I stand by my earlier statement. You can't judge Mr. Catoe just yet. By the way, the name is Mirai. My apologies. |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Tue Dec 18 20:55:31 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 15:21:55 2007. It is completely fair to say that a sentence or two about a disruption does not fully describe the spatial-temporal-customer effect that resulted.The unexpurgated daily summaries include some numbers that attempt to summarize this information numerically but it often misses the true picture too. But really, trying to tell senior management about spatial-temporal-customer disruptions never flies! |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 21:59:29 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 20:30:24 2007. "White, Tangherlini, and Catoe have all done this,"No, they haven't. "Expansion money is separate from operating/maintenance funds" No, expansion money is secured for construction and Metrorail has to hold bake sales and send its employees to street corners to beg for "spare change." The funds are separate, but if you don't have any of the latter, it doesn't matter. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 22:07:01 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 18 21:59:29 2007. Ron, please pinch yourself or do whatever it takes for you to get out of your fantasy world, google "Metro Matters" and see what comes up. And when you are disappointed by the results, please resist the temptation to avoid all my questions and insult me. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Tue Dec 18 23:50:41 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 17:52:57 2007. "Why don't you tell the rest of us how long you've been relying on Metro, whether as a frequent or occasional rider. I was a frequent rider around the time of the Blue Line Mutiny in the mid-1990s, as well as the numerous Red Line delays in 2003-2004 due to broken rails, the huge snowstorm that sidelined the fleet, and the construction at New York Avenue, and only rarely had problems even close to what you describe."Fair enough. I've been riding Metro for about the last thirteen years. Most of that was as an occasional tourist as I was a child who would either come to D.C. with my parents for vacation or come to visit my aunt in Annapolis. I never remember so much as a stop between stations for the majority at that time. I've been a regular rider for the last two and a half years when I came study at university in D.C. and was a near-daily rider from May to October of this year. That is when I experienced most of the problems I mentioned. I got caught in one major breakdown (the Rossyln Tunnel) in August that lasted an hour and resulted in chaos after finally getting unloaded with fourteen cars-worth of passengers in an already crowded station at rush hour, have had numerous door malfunctions both at rush hour and other times requiring the train to be unloaded, got a few cars in the middle of the summer with broken air conditioners and stations with malfunctioning chillers, and have had numerous delays en route either due to track work, train breakdowns elsewhere, infrastructure problems. Once, I waited about 45 minutes until 3:20 in the morning for a train from Reagan National back into the city. (By the way, there was no announced trackwork that night.) Like you, I've also avoided many problems such as the power outages on the Green Line, the fire in the Farragut North tunnels, the CAF derailment at Mt. Vernon Square, et cetera. Whenever I read of those events in the Washington Post, I was glad that I either wasn't on the Metro on those days or that I am virtually never on the Green Line. I will admit quite frankly that I can't comment on many past Metro episodes like the "Blue Line Mutiny" or the Red Line broken rail problem. I did not ride the Metro regularly then as I was young and lived elsewhere. As such, I have to rely on performance statistics, news articles, and to hearsay to understand how Metro was compared with how it is. All seem to reflect a general downturn in Metro's performance over the last few years. From your own ability to avoid problems during these episodes, I'm led to believe that either you had extremely good luck, the problems weren't as bad as they were said to be, or whenever there was a door problem, the cars were taken out of service ASAP to be fixed up. As for the blizzard (1996 or 2003?) and the construction of New York Avenue, one was a freak event and the other was construction. I don't know how construction would affect trains or cause unexpected delays aside from maybe a short period of cautious testing when the ROW was adjusted for the new station. As for blizzards, they are extremely rare in the D.C. area and therefore hard to prepare for. There is no fault on the part of Metro in being stopped by a blizzard that probably stopped virtually all transportation in the area. These two events are much different from unprovoked mechanical and infrastructure failure as has been common in the recent past. As for the bit about offloading, I provided an example, not an all-encompassing theory of the definite effects of a breakdown on the Metrorail system. My thought wasn't meant to represent any given hour in Metro as we all know that there are many different traffic patterns and levels of congestion on Metro. I spoke of a scenario involving a train breaking down and troubling its passengers and those on the one that followed. I am aware that trains are rarely any more tightly timed than this. However, rush hour would probably have this problem. Even in the non-rush hours, doubled-up lines (Orange/Blue, Yellow/Green, Yellow/Blue) might also have this problem, and I have personally seen it happen at Farragut West. So, either there can be a breakdown during rush hour in which typically passengers of two trains are made late, or there's a breakdown during non-rush hour in which typically passengers of one train are made really late. Is that at least a more agreeably thorough model? Either way, people are still made late. Finally, your advice regarding time is good. It echoes one of my mother's most prized and reiterated proverbs that I have heard over the twenty years and seven months of my life thus far. Nevertheless, the extra five to ten minutes should be so that I can calmly sashay to my destination with the peace that I will arrive early. It should not be the result of telling myself that there will be yet another delay on Metro. When people tolerate mediocrity, mediocrity prevails. As a taxpayer and a rider of Metrorail who will be hit with higher fares this coming January, I will not tolerate mediocrity, as goddammit I want to sashay in my extra ten minutes rather than worry about delays that Metro won't fix. Hopefully, I'm not alone in wanting to eliminate mediocrity and be able to calmly sashay off on time trains. |
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Posted by Mirai Zikasu on Wed Dec 19 12:09:25 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Dec 18 20:30:24 2007. "Please find where I have denied this sentiment."Well, I never explicitly said that you did. However, when you spoke as if my experiences on Metro were not important due to them being very unusual, I wanted to make sure that my argument's thesis was clear that there are problems on the Metro that need to be fixed because how often an individual experiences a problem is not as important as the matter that problems are happening. "However, to pass off your experience as "normal" would be quite a stretch from reality, and you should stop trying to do so." That I never did, period. My experiences are my own, and I have portrayed them as just that. However they compare with others' experiences on Metro is for others to decide. You are the one who is claiming that I describe my experiences as "normal" and dismissing me for your own self-fabricated delusion. The boldest I went in any of my statements was "Seeing how more people aren't speaking up with experiences on Metro similar to yours, I believe that would also make you an anomaly." Note the usage of also. Your experiences on Metro are on the same level as mine as are everyone else's because they are by nature individual experiences. My writings represent my own experiences rather than some narcissistic claim that my vision of Metro is the exact representation of normal commuting experience, and you are free to look back and verify this if you wish. "As Ron would say, do your homework. It wasn't Richard White's project, either." It happened in the last two months of his tenure. It was either his project or that of someone under him. News articles that I have read including that of the Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, and Metro's own site cited the Metro spokeswoman, a few consultants, and "Metro officials." If it wasn't White, it was at least one of the people under him. If it was neither White nor someone under him, then a little help rather than a snide "do your homework" would be appreciated when I have not offered you the same rudeness. "Your experience on the Blue Line sounds like you got one of the trains that first had the announcements, and then they redid it once it had been piloted to make it work better. They probably decided there was no need to update the trains they used for the pilot, and you got one of those. There are only 6-12 of those, if even that many. Is it really that big a deal?" For the record, it was car 5080 on October 7th. The message was as follows. "Step back...so customers may exit. When boarding move to the center of the car." I found a press release that I had missed before mentioning this variation, and so, you're probably be right. For the most part, it just surprised me as I heard it after this year's October LunchTalk when someone else passed on a complaint about the new recordings. This other recording was slightly more curt and done in a softer tone though it seemed almost choppy as if some words had been cut out and the remainder spliced back together. It was a bit of a big deal at that moment to me as it seemed as if it was a late acknowledgment of discontent for the new recordings and an attempt to backtrack on the verbosity and forceful tone that came with the recordings' new authoritative, bossy quality sought in the voice contest. As I didn't know that Metro did test recordings and then revised them, I suppose that makes what I heard nothing more than an unchanged test. Anyway, I talk about it as I hate the new voice recordings. If there is any little issue that I take up with Metro, it is that. I understand that it is unlikely that the old, pleasant recordings will be resurrected, but change is slow, and as evident by the LunchTalk chat back in October, Metro still acknowledges discontent for the new recordings from people other than me. So there's an ever so small hope that they might change it back. You can't have it both ways. Yes, the sound system doesn't work too well with the vaults, but they are working to improve the quality of announcements. PIMS cannot be relied on for all system announcements, many of those displays are poorly placed and are obstructed, not to mention, they are difficult to see from far away. if they didn't make announcements, you would be complaining that they weren't keeping you informed of delays and that the system is horrible. I think the balance is fairly appropriate. You seem to forget there was once a time where there were no PIMS displays, information about delays and elevator outages was only able to be relayed over the station's PA system, and you had no idea how many minutes away the next train was until you could see its headlights or the edge lights flashed. I don't want it both ways. I'd rather either see the majority on the PIMS or hear the majority over the loudspeaker, not everything on both or nothing on neither. Redundant, verbose information on both is excessive and annoying. Service advisories and elevator outages seem to show well on the PIMS, and most people probably don't pay attention to the "see it, say it" campaigns or whatever is being muttered about in Spanish over the loudspeakers regardless of their audibility, anyway. If usage of the loudspeakers isn't eliminated, at least reduce the frequency so that Mister and Miss Chatty Cathy Public Service Announcement doesn't go shooting their mouths off every five minutes with the same repeated public service announcements. Also, no, I wouldn't be complaining if they cut the public service announcements and reduced service advisories to one medium or the other. I check WMATA.com for service advisories anymore so I know beforehand what I'm getting into when I head off to the Metro. I also remember very well what the Metro was like before the PIMS system. I don't remember the announcements, but I remember waiting for a train, not knowing what would show up or when it would come. Without the PIMS system, though, at least the PA systems were the only thing used for announcements. I say lose the verbose, droning PSAs for people to "see it, say it" and Metro's "Please excuse our failure to provide you decent service, and we thank you for putting up with riding the Metrorail system." (Sarcasm) "Foggy Bottom is one of the darkest stations in the system. They need to improve the lighting there, and that was a fine first step. Now they need to finish with the rest of the station. Many Metro managers have talked about improving lighting, none of them ever seem to actually do it." That would be because they did it wrong, and their fine first step was off a cliff. Rather than clean the lights of the existing station or replace old bulbs with new fluorescents, they ripped out the installations under the mezzanine and installed the bug zappers instead. The lighting in that station is now unequal, unpleasant, and downright jarring to the point where even Catoe himself agreed that it was bad to use those lights. (His response is to the third question from the bottom.) To me, as long as one is sure to open his eyes, there is no Metro station that too dark. If Metro MUST increase the lighting though, they have to do it properly, gradually, and with regard to station aesthetics, not by installing a bunch of bug zapper spotlights directly over people's heads. "Wake up already. White, Tangherlini, and Catoe have all done this, but clearly you (and the local politicians and feds) paid no attention. Ever hear of the MetroMatters program? Expansion money is separate from operating/maintenance funds, we've been through that already, and the system will be expanded further. Running additional 8 car trains is a major change if you ask me. What do you consider it to be?" I've had my coffee already, thank you. And thank you for the correction in regards to White's efforts to increase Metro's funding. I was wrong about him as I forgot about the Metro Matters program. So, then, White made efforts to lobby for improved Metro's funding back in 2004. Okay. Still, the system rotted under his leadership with excessive usage of quick fixes. I never said anything about Tangherlini as it seems there was push to get dedicated funding during his tenure. As for Catoe, what has he done besides say "Cut costs and service; raise fares" is nothing. No lobbying, no "Please contact your representative to support us," just "Cut costs and service; raise fares." The system will one day be expanded further, but when? The last I checked, the Tysons Corner expansion was still amusing the NIMBY tunnel people and getting caught up in how to fully fund the project. As for service changes, eight car trains are great if one can ride at rush hour. However, when Metro balances it out by forcing more people in the off hours to cram into four car trains, that's bad. Given the problem that people who couldn't fit onto one train would have to wait up to another fifteen minutes, that really bad. So bad, that I would say it negates the extra capacity at rush hour due to the difference in frequency. A public transportation system can't run with all focus on rush hour alone. "I stand by my earlier statement. You can't judge Mr. Catoe just yet." I'm afraid that I'm not comfortable with the thought of sitting back with my mouth shut for the next five years watching service stagnate and fare rise. A month is a short time. Half a year is a short time. A year of virtually nothing but a fare increase is pushing it. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 19 12:44:34 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Wed Dec 19 12:09:25 2007. It happened in the last two months of his tenure. It was either his project or that of someone under him. News articles that I have read including that of the Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, and Metro's own site cited the Metro spokeswoman, a few consultants, and "Metro officials." If it wasn't White, it was at least one of the people under him. If it was neither White nor someone under him, then a little help rather than a snide "do your homework" would be appreciated when I have not offered you the same rudeness.No it didn't. It happened under Dan Tangherlini's interim management. I'm no fan of the new chimes either, I think it was silly and a waste of time to change them with a big media spectacle, but it is over, people still ignore the chimes, and nothing changed. Try out for the next contest in a few years if you want to change things. For the record, it was car 5080 on October 7th. The message was as follows. "Step back...so customers may exit. When boarding move to the center of the car." I found a press release that I had missed before mentioning this variation, and so, you're probably be right. For the most part, it just surprised me as I heard it after this year's October LunchTalk when someone else passed on a complaint about the new recordings. This other recording was slightly more curt and done in a softer tone though it seemed almost choppy as if some words had been cut out and the remainder spliced back together. It was a bit of a big deal at that moment to me as it seemed as if it was a late acknowledgment of discontent for the new recordings and an attempt to backtrack on the verbosity and forceful tone that came with the recordings' new authoritative, bossy quality sought in the voice contest. As I didn't know that Metro did test recordings and then revised them, I suppose that makes what I heard nothing more than an unchanged test. Anyway, I talk about it as I hate the new voice recordings. If there is any little issue that I take up with Metro, it is that. I understand that it is unlikely that the old, pleasant recordings will be resurrected, but change is slow, and as evident by the LunchTalk chat back in October, Metro still acknowledges discontent for the new recordings from people other than me. So there's an ever so small hope that they might change it back. You definately got the pilot for the new recordings. I do think you put too much faith in these online chats though. They are a stunt done to satisfy some whiny commuters who want accountability from Metro management. I read through those and see a bunch of canned responses to a variety of issues. Is it really worth Catoe's time to do this? I don't want it both ways. I'd rather either see the majority on the PIMS or hear the majority over the loudspeaker, not everything on both or nothing on neither. Redundant, verbose information on both is excessive and annoying. Service advisories and elevator outages seem to show well on the PIMS, and most people probably don't pay attention to the "see it, say it" campaigns or whatever is being muttered about in Spanish over the loudspeakers regardless of their audibility, anyway. If usage of the loudspeakers isn't eliminated, at least reduce the frequency so that Mister and Miss Chatty Cathy Public Service Announcement doesn't go shooting their mouths off every five minutes with the same repeated public service announcements. I don't think the announcements are redundant or verbose. Also, considering the average wait for a train off hours is 6-8 minutes in most stations, it means that you are likely to hear an announcement of some sort while waiting. No problem with that in my opinion. Most people actually WANT these types of announcement due to the large number of tourists who use the system because they are believed to discourage people from eating or standing on the left side of the escalators. Also, no, I wouldn't be complaining if they cut the public service announcements and reduced service advisories to one medium or the other. I check WMATA.com for service advisories anymore so I know beforehand what I'm getting into when I head off to the Metro. I also remember very well what the Metro was like before the PIMS system. I don't remember the announcements, but I remember waiting for a train, not knowing what would show up or when it would come. Without the PIMS system, though, at least the PA systems were the only thing used for announcements. I say lose the verbose, droning PSAs for people to "see it, say it" and Metro's "Please excuse our failure to provide you decent service, and we thank you for putting up with riding the Metrorail system." (Sarcasm) You may check wmata.com every time you ride, but many others don't. Also, it takes me 20 minutes to get from home to my station. What happens if something happens in those 20 minutes? How am I to find out about it? Also, when there was an ongoing delay when I left home, it was frequently cleared by the time I reached the station. Those announcements are essential to providing good customer service, and your proposals to limit it to a PIMS display is simply not practical. That would be because they did it wrong, and their fine first step was off a cliff. Rather than clean the lights of the existing station or replace old bulbs with new fluorescents, they ripped out the installations under the mezzanine and installed the bug zappers instead. The lighting in that station is now unequal, unpleasant, and downright jarring to the point where even Catoe himself agreed that it was bad to use those lights. (His response is to the third question from the bottom.) To me, as long as one is sure to open his eyes, there is no Metro station that too dark. If Metro MUST increase the lighting though, they have to do it properly, gradually, and with regard to station aesthetics, not by installing a bunch of bug zapper spotlights directly over people's heads. Most people agreed it wasn't an even treatment throughout the station, but how are they to determine what works and doesn't work if they don't at least try something new? They have been trying to clean light fixtures and replace bulbs for years with limited improvements, so you can't blame them for trying something new. Some stations are better than others, including Farragut North and at least until its lighting type was changed, Glenmont, while others, such as Foggy Bottom and Friendship Heights, are much worse. I've had my coffee already, thank you. And thank you for the correction in regards to White's efforts to increase Metro's funding. I was wrong about him as I forgot about the Metro Matters program. So, then, White made efforts to lobby for improved Metro's funding back in 2004. Okay. Still, the system rotted under his leadership with excessive usage of quick fixes. I never said anything about Tangherlini as it seems there was push to get dedicated funding during his tenure. As for Catoe, what has he done besides say "Cut costs and service; raise fares" is nothing. No lobbying, no "Please contact your representative to support us," just "Cut costs and service; raise fares." The system will one day be expanded further, but when? The last I checked, the Tysons Corner expansion was still amusing the NIMBY tunnel people and getting caught up in how to fully fund the project. As for service changes, eight car trains are great if one can ride at rush hour. However, when Metro balances it out by forcing more people in the off hours to cram into four car trains, that's bad. Given the problem that people who couldn't fit onto one train would have to wait up to another fifteen minutes, that really bad. So bad, that I would say it negates the extra capacity at rush hour due to the difference in frequency. A public transportation system can't run with all focus on rush hour alone. Things have happened exactly as White predicted depending upon what stance you take. Catoe needs additional cash to run things now, and thus the fare hike. He doesn't have time to wait for appropriations from Congress, it is too late for that now. Let's be realistic about what is happening. Tysons construction is to begin in this quarter, though it will probably happen early next year at this rate. Running 8 car trains off hours is a waste of resources, but running 4 car trains off hours during the winter has been done historically, and probably is still practical on some weekends. With the amount of trackwork they do on weekends now, 6 car trains may be needed due to the increased headways, and WMATA should consider doing some more detailed ridership data collection to determine what is most practical under normal weekend conditions sans trackwork. |
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Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 19 12:54:55 2007, in response to Re: WMATA Board Approves Fare Hike, posted by Mirai Zikasu on Tue Dec 18 23:50:41 2007. Blue Line Mutiny: Passengers refused to get off a train needing to be offloaded at Smithsonian during PM Rush Hour during the Cherry Blossom FestivalNew York Avenue Construction: There were a number of times that weekend construction was not completed prior to system opening on Monday morning, causing significant delays on the Red Line during the following rush hour Red Line Broken Rails: Multiple broken rails occurred on the Red Line in 2004 and 2005 on the western end, including one very "non-standard" break in comparison to how rails usually break, resulting in single tracking and major delays while the rails were fixed to allow service. Complete repairs would take place when the system closed that evening. I got stuck in a number of NYA construction related delays, the Red Line broken rails, and a number of computer crashes in the mid-1990s that caused massive rush hour delays. I was also on the Green Line this summer the morning the power failed. The common stretches on the Blue, Orange, Yellow, and Green Lines are not scheduled any more frequently than the Red Line is, so your hypothesis is irrelevant to any discussion. You finally do seem to understand my point though about how widespread delays are. And while yes, the goal is no delays, let's be reasonable and expect brekdowns to occasionally occur. I'm glad to see you have some common sense in analyzing the impact of blizzards on WMATA. Most posters on this board don't seem to get it, you do. |
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