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| (504551) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:35:54 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 18 15:07:34 2007. I understand that. But that doesn't answer the question. If it's not the sideswiping that's the problem, what is it? That has nothing to do with "coming up from Jay St on the F" |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:37:19 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 14:08:15 2007. That isn't the problem. Technically (someone please correct if wrong), a 75 foot car COULD run to Canarsie via Broadway (Brooklyn) if two trains of 75' cars aren't passing by the Manhattan portal of the Williamsburg Bridge at the same time. But I don't think they can run to Metropolitan Avenue, and I'm sure they cannot run east of Broadway Junction into Alabama Avenue even if these rules were amended. |
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| (504554) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:38:09 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 18 16:26:14 2007. This is what I have always heard, please correct any of the ones that are wrong:-Sideswipe problem at the ends of the Willy B. -sideswipe problem for M line at Myrtle-Bway curve. -impassible problem at Crescent St S curve. -impassible problem on the L line around Graham or Grand. |
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| (504555) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:38:31 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 14:40:25 2007. The real problem is not that, but by Crescent where the curve is so sharp that 75' cars cannot make it. |
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| (504557) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:40:41 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 14:47:48 2007. I'm saying that the 75 foot cars cannot fit on that cut, i'm not saying thats the primary reason for the cars not being able to be used on the East Div.I know what you are saying, and I am saying that doesn't make sense. They built the Chrystie cut in the 60's when they were planning to get 75 foot cars, and back then, they were still planning to one day retrofit the Eastern Division. Why would they build a brand new tunnel that wouldn't allow for the planned 75 foot cars? |
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| (504558) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:40:44 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Michael549 on Thu Oct 18 15:00:22 2007. I don't remember this, but it wouldn't surprise me because it can be done with restrictions.But these days, I would imagine that customers may have to be told that only certain cars will open at stations, since cars are now in sets (were they at the time of this G.O.)? |
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| (504559) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Oct 18 19:40:44 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:31:54 2007. Bicentennial R46s on Bicentennial day 7/4/1976. Pefect combo for a fan trip plus the rare visit of the R46 to the eastern division. |
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| (504560) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:41:29 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by monorail on Thu Oct 18 14:54:51 2007. Then just inform customers that they must be in certain cars to be able to get off or on the train. |
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| (504561) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:42:44 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 13:22:35 2007. However, when have 44/46 cars run to FP Yard? (I stand corrected in prior posts if such evidence is found.) |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:43:06 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 15:02:13 2007. They HAVE in the past. I believe the Bicentenial R44-46 fantrip to Metropolitan Ave and Canarsie ran through the cut. The 75 foot cars HAVE been on the Eastern Division in the past. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:43:30 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 13:22:35 2007. Why did/do the R44's/R46's have to run to Fresh Pond Yard. |
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| (504564) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:43:51 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Dan on Thu Oct 18 14:52:20 2007. They can be. However, physical problems prevent running beyond Broadway Junction to Queens on the el. |
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| (504565) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:43:56 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:43:06 2007. Yes, it was on the East. in the past. |
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| (504567) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 19:44:31 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 14:52:55 2007. You mean from Coney Island to ENY.Probably. |
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| (504568) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:44:32 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Oct 18 16:01:07 2007. YOU were on that trip? Do you have any photos??!?!?!?! The only one we have is one on the Fresh Pond Rd incline of the 1976 trip of 75 foot cars. |
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| (504569) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:45:07 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 19:44:31 2007. Yup, thats exactly what I meant. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:45:58 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:40:44 2007. They could have used shorter trains. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by DCmetrogreen on Thu Oct 18 19:46:00 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by EastSideRider on Thu Oct 18 17:02:16 2007. You were right! It's here:The proposal never saw the light of day, but the Manhattan Bridge continued to deteriorate. In May of 1982, a routine inspection revealed a cracked beam above the north side subway tracks near the Manhattan tower, forcing emergency rerouting of B and D trains. In both 1982 and 1983, midday routings of D trains would send them via tunnel and Nassau Street Loop to just past Essex Street onto the Williamsburgh Bridge, where trains would reverse direction, go through the Chrystie Street cut, and rejoin 6th Avenue service at Broadway/Lafayette. This added 20 minutes to the mid-day commute for Brighton Line riders. Thanks! |
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| (504572) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:46:20 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:38:31 2007. That's what I thought. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:48:00 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:42:44 2007. In 1976, they ran a fan trip using R44-46's that ran to Fresh Pond Yard (I don't know if they went into Metroplitan), The Broadway El, and to Canarsie via the J line. |
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| (504577) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:49:55 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:43:30 2007. They ran as far as Fresh Pond Yard on July 4th, 1976:
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| (504578) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 19:50:05 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:45:07 2007. I figured this was in the late seventies early eighties so maybe the cars came from Jamaica and came down 6 Av, Chrystie, then to ENY for repairs. |
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| (504579) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Oct 18 19:51:01 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Oct 18 18:14:52 2007. Actually, fantrips on new equipment are nothing new. Around 1962 when the R-29s were delivered, the ERA ran a fan trip on them since they were the first NYCTA cars in many years that were painted red instead of the olive drab or "subway green" color of the R-21s thru 28s (and also the R-16s and 30s) which made the cars look like they were US Army surplus. The R-1/9s were painted olive drab but with the R-10 thru 14 the B of T tried a new paint scheme of 2 tone gray belted by a red/orange stripe below the window line and another one at the roof line. With the R-15s, the B of T used a maroon paint scheme with a grey band trimmed in yellow below the window line. That same scheme was used on the SIRT cars the TA purchased in 1954. The R-17s had a simpler paint scheme which was the same shade of maroon used on the R-15s but without the striping. With the R-16,the TA reverted to the military olive drab paint scheme which lasted until the R-30s. Since the TA back then didn't have car washes, cars of all colors soon were coated with the greyish/rust steel dust color which made them all look alike anyhow. Why the R-16s were green while the R-17s were maroon, I'm not really sure, but in many cases, the cars of a particular contract order don't always come in in strict numerical order. For example, the R-29 were actually newer than the R-30s since the latter car order was tacked on to the R-27 order. Had that not happened, the R-30s may very well have been red like the R-29s. The R-33s and 36s were the last painted steel cars the TA ordered yet the first stainless steel car order, the R-32 carries a lowere number. Again had the R-33 and 36 orders been placed later, they might very well have been stainless steel and probably still on the property instead of being scrapped. |
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| (504580) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:51:32 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by DCmetrogreen on Thu Oct 18 19:46:00 2007. I always knew about this odd GO, however did they use 60 foot car trains or 75 foot car trains for this GO...that is the question. There's no doubt the GO happened, just what rolling stock they used. |
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| (504582) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:51:46 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:49:55 2007. Yes, when they had the fan trip. |
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| (504591) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 20:03:06 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:48:00 2007. I saw the photo. I stand corrected. |
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| (504595) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:09:06 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 19:51:46 2007. Right...but that means they got there.... |
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| (504598) | |
R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:10:27 2007, in response to No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Russ on Thu Oct 18 12:29:12 2007. How were the R68's delivered? I know the R143's went through Fresh Pond, and then to I think the Yard by Livonia for transfer to the subway system. How did they get the R68's into the system? Did they come through the L line too? What about the R44-46's? |
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| (504599) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:11:43 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 18 14:48:48 2007. Interesting, so they used the 75 foot cars for that GO. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:13:56 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:09:06 2007. Yes, but what I thought you said (I may have read wrong, so sorry), is that if they used to continue to go to F.P.Y. |
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| (504602) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:14:55 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Edwards! on Thu Oct 18 14:51:19 2007. And again, even without that, why would they not design the Chrystie cut that was built in the 60's, when they were purchasing 75 foot cars, and converting the system to be able to handle 75 foot cars and still planning to one day do the Eastern Division too; why would they build that cut to not handle it? It wouldn't make sense! |
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| (504603) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:15:27 2007, in response to R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:10:27 2007. I seen a photo, by Train Dude in nycsubway.org, of an R68A loaded up on a flat bed truck, being delivered, I don't know if this was the same for the R68's. |
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| (504604) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:16:28 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Dan on Thu Oct 18 19:40:44 2007. Right, even then it was something special to have an R46 on the Eastern Division.... |
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| (504606) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:18:46 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:37:19 2007. But I don't think they can run to Metropolitan AvenueThe R46 DID run to Metropolitan, or just to near the station. Here it is at Fresh Pond Rd:
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:20:33 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:13:56 2007. No, I said they CAN go to Fresh Pond Yard, and HAVE:
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| (504609) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:21:15 2007, in response to Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:15:27 2007. Oh, so they weren't delivered by rail like the R143's were. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:21:51 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:20:33 2007. Yes, they can. But then again, over the years, there has been lots on reconstruction, to residential buildings, platforms, track, etc.... So, can they STILL run to Metropolitan today? |
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| (504616) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 20:30:12 2007, in response to R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:10:27 2007. I've seen many pictures of R46's coming in via barge and then I guess through the South Brooklyn Railway tracks into the Sea Beach. |
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Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:32:25 2007, in response to Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 20:30:12 2007. Well, first it had to be on the West End. That's where the switch is, at the 36th street portal, from the SBK. |
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| (504626) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 20:37:51 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:21:51 2007. There hasn't been that much construction to the line...and the MTA is careful enough to own enough land on either side so that buildings become irrelevant. |
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| (504645) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 21:16:47 2007, in response to Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:32:25 2007. Yes, the pictures show the new equipment near the warehouses on 2nd Avenue in Brooklyn and also on the street at McDonald Avenue. |
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Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Oct 18 21:19:39 2007, in response to Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Oct 18 20:30:12 2007. Some R46s were delivered by barge to the LIRR at Bay Ridge, then via Parkville Junction to the SBK tracks along McDonald Avenue to Coney Island Yard. I remember walking home one day from classes and seeing an R46 sitting on Avenue I near McDonald Ave. It had become derailed and a crew was trying to re-rail it. This was in 1975. |
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| (504657) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by David on Thu Oct 18 22:17:14 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:51:32 2007. I rode the D when it did that. The cars in use were R-40M/R-42s. One day in 1984 ('85?) I was on 4764/5 (the pair that went to Pueblo, Colorado for testing and were out of service for many years -- the cars still had USDOT stickers inside and hadn't been painted tan/orange) on the Williamsburg Bridge. We must have been up there for half an hour; I think someone forgot we were there!I don't know how far back GOs of that type went ("Edwards" says they ran in the 1970s), but 75-foot cars were removed from D service shortly after a particularly violent derailment near Kings Highway on January 16, 1981 almost put a train of R-44s into several backyards. They didn't reappear there until R-68s started arriving in 1986. David |
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| (504658) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by David on Thu Oct 18 22:21:47 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:40:41 2007. I think the timeline is a bit off here. The Chrystie Street and Sixth Avenue express services began running in 1967-68, after ten years of construction (not to mention however long it took for design work). The R-44 contract (for 75-foot cars) was awarded to St. Louis Car in 1969.David |
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| (504661) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Oct 18 22:38:41 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by David on Thu Oct 18 22:21:47 2007. "I think the timeline is a bit off here. The Chrystie Street and Sixth Avenue express services began running in 1967-68, after ten years of construction (not to mention however long it took for design work). The R-44 contract (for 75-foot cars) was awarded to St. Louis Car in 1969."That doesn't mean, though, that the thought of 75' cars happened for the first time in 1969, to be sure. |
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| (504662) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Thu Oct 18 22:54:18 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by randyo on Thu Oct 18 19:51:01 2007. Cool, thanks for the info. I just couldn't imagine today having a fantrip like that with an R-160 or any of this newer equipment. Interesting about the R-32 having a lower number than the scrapped R-33 and 36's. I used to wonder why that was the case. |
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| (504667) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 23:14:54 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Thu Oct 18 20:21:51 2007. I agree there have been some structures added and perhaps change in tracks, but "residential buildings"? |
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| (504694) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Oct 19 00:35:10 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Oct 18 19:41:29 2007. 'Then just inform customers that they must be in certain cars to be able to get off or on the train.' you are not from around here, are you????? |
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| (504741) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by David on Fri Oct 19 07:05:05 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Oct 18 22:38:41 2007. Absolutely. However, my point is that NYCT(A) probably wasn't thinking of 75' cars in 1956 or so, when the connection was under design.David |
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| (504780) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Fri Oct 19 08:34:35 2007, in response to R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:10:27 2007. Correction. The R143's and R142a's both came right to 207st Yard via a flatbed truck. Your thinking of the R142's into Fresh Pond yard and the transferred to Lindon via B&A RR. I have seen a few train being transferred back when they were coming in.Robert |
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