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| (504784) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Fri Oct 19 08:38:27 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by David on Thu Oct 18 22:17:14 2007. "I don't know how far back GOs of that type went ("Edwards" says they ran in the 1970s), but 75-foot cars were removed from D service shortly after a particularly violent derailment near Kings Highway on January 16, 1981 almost put a train of R-44s into several backyards. They didn't reappear there until R-68s started arriving in 1986."The GO rerouting the D via Nassau seems to have taken place entirely during that 1981-86 window. I remember driving over the Willy B at night sometime in 1982 or '83 and seeing a heavily graffitied Mod 40 or 42 signed as a D sitting midway on the span (no doubt changing ends) full of confused-looking passengers. Of course, the Christie/Manny B connection was severed circa 1986-88 forcing two separate D services. During that time, the 68s were introduced to the Brooklyn branch followed by the 68As to the Bronx branch. I don't recall any further occurrence of the D-via-Nassau GO since the December '88 consolidation- which includes the 1995 off-hour Manny B northside closure and the 2001-04 southside closure. It would have been very interesting to ride a 68/A via Nassau assuming it's even possible- the very topic being debated on this thread. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Oct 19 08:41:23 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:44:32 2007. Ah yes, that photo of R-46s with the Bicentennial stripe posing as a Moe. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Oct 19 08:48:27 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Oct 18 16:01:07 2007. Canarsie, I didn't expect to be a problem. But going down to Crescent---the train may hit critical structures or just not fit. |
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| (504815) | |
Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 19 10:32:51 2007, in response to Re: R68 Delivery Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by North-Easten T/O on Fri Oct 19 08:34:35 2007. Very possible. It probably was the R142's I am thinking of then. I even have photos somewhere. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Oct 19 11:00:56 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 20:14:55 2007. From a previous message: "And again, even without that, why would they not design the Chrystie cut that was built in the 60's, when they were purchasing 75 foot cars, and converting the system to be able to handle 75 foot cars and still planning to one day do the Eastern Division too; why would they build that cut to not handle it? It wouldn't make sense!"Imagine that the Chyrstie cut, the tunnels for the K-train, and the tunnel and station for the B and D trains wee indeed able to accommodate 75-foot cars. The passageway for N and Q trains able to handle 75-foot cars. Imagine that for a K-train, 75-foot cars can make it all of the way to and can enter the Essex Street station. Imagine that since the other parts of the line, the pathway over the Williamsburg Bridge, various curves along the J-M-Z route were built at a very early period some of these sections (one section or more) can not accommodate 75-foot cars - it would then make sense to not allow 75-foot trains to use the K-tracks of the Chrystie Street cut. Not because the cut can not allow such trains but due to the fact that other areas of the route can not. Just a thought, Mike |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 19 11:23:26 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Michael549 on Fri Oct 19 11:00:56 2007. Obviously. The argument he was saying is that the cut itself can't handle it. That's what was being discussed, not the reason why they don't allow them through the cut.I know that other parts of the J has trouble with them. |
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| (504836) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 12:07:16 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 19:45:58 2007. No..full 10 car trains were used...At Essex st..the D's usually pulled out of the station for a car length..so it didn't block the interlocking,I suppose.. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 12:41:03 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Oct 18 22:38:41 2007. The idea for the longer car has been around since the creation of the Standard..this is nothing new.The car designer the TA employed was a old fart who idea for passenger comfort was a rolling box with seats. It was during the R40 contract that the longer car movement really took off..as the city/state went full steam with the SECOND AVENUE/63RD ST planning... Is it any wonder how the FIRST R44 car arrived in the city in 1970, during the period when the last of the R42 cars were being delivered? Even though the cars were rejected[20 of them]for various flaws...and sent back to the builder..later that year they reappeared during tours around the system in a "raw form"..body shells for clearance testing. Check it out..make interesting reading. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Oct 19 12:54:29 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by David on Thu Oct 18 22:17:14 2007. I also lived that GO from 1982 - 1984 going to/from NYU from Kings Highway. I don't recall ever having R-44s or R-46s when this happened. It was usually the R-40Ms/R-42s as you said. That was pretty much standard equipment on the D in those days.One question though. I thought it was Brighton Line resident complaints, especially along Brighton Beach Avenue, about excessive wheel vibration from the R-46s which led the TA to remove them and substitute some R-10s instead. This is the first time I heard that an accident led to their removal. Was there a certain finding from thsi accident that caused this decision? --Mark |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Oct 19 12:55:11 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by EastSideRider on Thu Oct 18 17:02:16 2007. Somewhere in the 1980's article (And a very good one I must say!)Thank you! --Mark |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 19 12:59:07 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 12:07:16 2007. Did they lock out the doors in the last car or two? |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Oct 19 12:59:40 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 12:07:16 2007. The D trains during this GO always ran with 10 car trains. D trains ran non-stop between DeKalb and Broadway - Lafayette via tunnel, the Centre St loop and Essex St, and stopped at Essex St only to allow a second motorman to board the train to bring it back into Essex Street (then leave the train) while the regular motorman changed ends.--Mark |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Oct 19 13:04:44 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 12:07:16 2007. Wrong, 10 car trains were used. R40m/42 & even an occasional R27 / 30, which did make appearances on the D . They even did this reroute with 68`s too. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Oct 19 13:13:37 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mr. D - Type on Fri Oct 19 13:04:44 2007. I think you misread his typing style. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 19 13:38:58 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Oct 19 13:13:37 2007. HE CERTAINLY DID. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Oct 19 14:15:57 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 23:14:54 2007. Yea, what I mean by residential buildings, is that the new development and housing that went up near the structure. |
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| (504927) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 19 15:46:36 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Fri Oct 19 14:15:57 2007. No, I know that....but there are no new buildings that would encroach on the MTA's ROW of the El structures. |
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| (504928) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 19 15:48:12 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Oct 19 12:59:40 2007. Oh, that explains it. I didn't realize they didn't make any stops along the Nassau line. That GO would be easier now....they could just use the old Queens track on the abandoned side.... |
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| (505067) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by David on Sat Oct 20 00:49:19 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Oct 19 12:54:29 2007. I recall the residents' opposition to the 75' cars. They claimed that vibrations from the cars were weakening the retaining walls separating the right-of-way from their backyards. The first thing NYCT(A) did was to replace the R-46s (Rockwell HPT-2 trucks) with R-44s (standard GSI trucks) on the D. Right after the January 16, 1981 derailment, the R-44s were removed from the line. I don't know whether there was a specific finding in the derailment investigation that spurred the car swap; it was more likely a case of this being the "last straw" to local politicians.Incidentally, somewhere around that same time, trucks from R-44 cars and R-46 cars were swapped, and the R-44s were put into storage. This was done because outside of the trucks, the R-46s were pretty reliable, while the R-44s were basket cases. After the R-46 trucks were replaced (with Buckeye trucks?), the R-44s got their trucks back. David |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Sat Oct 20 07:55:47 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 18 12:52:21 2007. There was a time when the R46s had some special work done on them at ENY, to the point where the overhead doors leading into the barn had to be re-worked. That would have been in the early 80s. |
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| (505124) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by David on Sat Oct 20 08:08:46 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Sat Oct 20 07:55:47 2007. I don't understand why the overhead doors would have had to be modified to accommodate R-46s. They're the same width as the R-42s that were in use over there at the time (as they are now) and they're actually about half an inch shorter.That said, the only work I can think of that would have been done on the cars at the time that might necessitate a separate work area would be the truck replacement, which happened ca. 1983. David |
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| (505127) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 20 08:45:54 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by David on Sat Oct 20 08:08:46 2007. Perhaps it was not the door itself. Maybe itis the fact that the lead tracks are curved and the sweep of a 75' car caused the car to strike the support column between 2 door openings. If the column were removed and the two doors were replaced with one large door, then a 75' car could enter the shop unobstructed. |
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| (505128) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by 15 BEECHHURST on Sat Oct 20 08:59:17 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by Train Dude on Sat Oct 20 08:45:54 2007. There you go, that was it...yes, it was the supports. The truck replacement program began with repair of the cracks on a pier at the Brroklyn Army Terminal in 1982 (possibly even 1981). |
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| (505131) | |
Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Oct 20 10:23:14 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by monorail on Fri Oct 19 00:35:10 2007. I am from around here...and it just happens to be SOP for the two stations that cannot fit the entire train. |
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Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Oct 21 10:28:19 2007, in response to Re: No 75 Foot Cars To Essex Street, posted by David on Sat Oct 20 00:49:19 2007. After the R-46 trucks were replaced (with Buckeye trucks?)Yes. Thanks for the complete story. |
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