Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) (360302) | |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Fri Jan 12 15:31:52 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Fri Jan 12 07:24:42 2007. And also what proportion of Brighton's residents ... clog up the M23 and the horrendously inadequate western half of the M25 whenever they want to go to Birmingham, Liverpool, or Manchester.Point well taken. And you should also consider residents of anywhere on or near the Brighton line, including south London. With sufficient thought, very good connections to Liverpool and Manchester can be provided at Rugby. I am not really keen on your idea, but a single service from Brighton to Birmingham, with good connections at Rugby, seems preferable to your other plan, which included 1 tph from Brighton to Aberystwyth (not much of a "conurbation"!). scrapping the Gatwick Express or having a daytime goods embargo across East Croydon The Gatwick Express makes poor use of the line, but of course the British Airports Authority wants to keep it. aligning the ... Cross Country train ... with the slots for the South London Line You could do that to provide two slots per hour, which would be reasonable for Brighton to Birmingham. On the other hand the South London Line is a historical relic, and it could be diverted to Victoria East, or preferably discontinued. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Fri Jan 12 19:54:29 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by David Fairthorne on Fri Jan 12 15:31:52 2007. I am not really keen on your idea, but a single service from Brighton to Birmingham, with good connections at Rugby, seems preferable to your other plan, which included 1 tph from Brighton to Aberystwyth (not much of a "conurbation"!).Well, the point of that is that the fast train from Birmingham to Shrewsbury should continue to Aberystwyth (it beats Pwllheli or the slow route to Chester). Shrewsbury and Telford have particularly bad service through not being electric. A WLL service would probably be diesel, so would provide the perfect service the other side of Birmingham to connect the Shrewsbury fast train into. A through train from Shepherd's Bush to Shrewsbury beats missing your connection from Euston at Birmingham New Street or Wolverhampton High Level! I know Brighton to Aberystwyth sounds silly, but there was a certain sort of logic to it! You could do that to provide two slots per hour, which would be reasonable for Brighton to Birmingham. On the other hand the South London Line is a historical relic, and it could be diverted to Victoria East, or preferably discontinued. Diverting it to the Eastern station would mean it couldn't serve Battersea Park. And besides, the Slow Lines into Victoria aren't full and are unlikely to ever be utilised much above half their capacity. If we're diverting the SLL anywhere, the other end should go to Abbey Wood via Lewisham instead of London Bridge. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Sat Jan 13 13:52:59 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Fri Jan 12 19:54:29 2007. the Slow Lines into Victoria aren't fullThat's true, so my remarks about the South London Line are irrelevant. But at some point (say Balham) your through train would have to cross over (at grade) to the fast tracks, which are at or near capacity in the peak hours. This raises a more serious objection to any long-distance service via the West London Line. Because not many people work in the West London Line area, such a service would not carry all that many passengers during peak hours. Therefore, in common with the Gatwick Express, it would not make good use of the available capacity of the Brighton line in the peak hours. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 14:40:07 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by David Fairthorne on Sat Jan 13 13:52:59 2007. That's true, so my remarks about the South London Line are irrelevant. But at some point (say Balham) your through train would have to cross over (at grade) to the fast tracks, which are at or near capacity in the peak hours.It's just about impossible to use the Victoria Fast Lines to capacity without: 1) running virtually no fast trains to London Bridge 2) making very heavy use of the single track Streatham Fast Spur (to the "Portsmouth" (i.e. Epsom) Line) 3) doing awful things to local trains to Croydon The at capacity section is through East and South Croydon stations. This raises a more serious objection to any long-distance service via the West London Line. Because not many people work in the West London Line area, such a service would not carry all that many passengers during peak hours. Therefore, in common with the Gatwick Express, it would not make good use of the available capacity of the Brighton line in the peak hours. There are various little things that would help, for instance: - Do something to the Tattenham Corner Branch. This is currently a big waste of slots across East Croydon. It's not a very popular line with commuters as it's much quicker (if currently rather illogically more expensive) from its outer end to travel into Epsom and catch a train from there. The obvious thing to do is an LRT conversion - finally build the street-running section from Croydon to Purley, then pick up the branch, run all the way to Tattenham Corner, then run into Epsom on Ashley Road and terminate on the station forecourt. - Make rather better use of the possibility of cross-platform transfers at Hayward's Heath - this can be used to provide fairly empty trains at Three Bridges and Gatwick Airport. - Lengthen the platforms at Salfords station from 8- to 12-cars, then combine short slow trains at Gatwick Airport. - Kill the Gatwick Express - at peak times it's a waste of capacity, off-peak it doesn't provide any meaningful advantage. - Create a bay platform 4 at Redhill so that those short Tonbridge trains don't waste main line slots (the only sizeable place on the line, Edenbridge, can be better served by the Uckfield Line). |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Sat Jan 13 15:54:40 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 14:40:07 2007. The at capacity section is through East and South Croydon stations.You are right. - Do something to the Tattenham Corner Branch. This is currently a big waste of slots across East Croydon. Neither the Tattenham Corner nor the Caterham branch has very high ridership, and both have short platforms, so it seems logical to serve them with short trains. But I don't think commuters on these branches would appreciate street-running. Splitting and joining trains at Purley, to make up long trains, can be done without blocking the main line. Or possibly you might operate both branches as shuttle services terminating at Purley. Then the service on the slow tracks via Purley and Reigate should be made more frequent, which I think is desirable anyway. - Make rather better use of the possibility of cross-platform transfers at Hayward's Heath - this can be used to provide fairly empty trains at Three Bridges and Gatwick Airport. Not sure what you have in mind here. - Lengthen the platforms at Salfords station from 8- to 12-cars, then combine short slow trains at Gatwick Airport. Short slow trains could serve short-platformed stations south of Gatwick; north of Gatwick they would form long semi-fast trains. Other long fast trains would continue to run to the coast, calling only at long-platformed stations south of Gatwick. - Kill the Gatwick Express - at peak times it's a waste of capacity, off-peak it doesn't provide any meaningful advantage. I am in favour of capital punishment in this case. - Create a bay platform 4 at Redhill so that those short Tonbridge trains don't waste main line slots (the only sizeable place on the line, Edenbridge, can be better served by the Uckfield Line). Agreed. Let the people change to short trains at Redhill if they are going east via Edenbridge or west via Reigate. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 17:20:12 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by David Fairthorne on Sat Jan 13 15:54:40 2007. Neither the Tattenham Corner nor the Caterham branch has very high ridership, and both have short platforms, so it seems logical to serve them with short trains. But I don't think commuters on these branches would appreciate street-running.Caterham's probably redeemable. I can't be bothered to dig out the stats, but my perception is that on the Tattenham Corner branch only Reedham and Smitham have significant ridership benefitting from the current arrangement (and these stations can obviously be moved to the Main Slow Lines). The effect of the western end of the Tattenham Corner Line being an abject failure is actually quite spectacular - the various roads into Epsom (and to a lesser extent Ewell, Cheam, and Sutton) from the Downs get very busy very early, then any street (not to mention Epsom & Ewell Borough Council's two free car parks that were supposed to serve Court Recreation Ground!) vaguely near a sensible railway station gets littered with commuters' cars all day. - Make rather better use of the possibility of cross-platform transfers at Hayward's Heath - this can be used to provide fairly empty trains at Three Bridges and Gatwick Airport. Not sure what you have in mind here. Run 4tph of 12-car expresses an hour out of Victoria: 1tph Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Hayward's Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park, Hove, Shoreham, Worthing, Barnham, Bognor Regis. 1tph Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Hayward's Heath, Lewes, Polegate, Eastbourne. 2tph Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Hayward's Heath, Brighton. Then use 4-car trains to form the following connections into/out of those trains: 1tph Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges, Hayward's Heath (wait to be overtaken by Bognor fast train), Wivelsfield, Plumpton, Cooksbridge, Lewes, Glynde, Berwick, Polegate, Eastbourne 1tph Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges, Hayward's Heath (wait to be overtaken by Eastbourne fast train), Wivelsfield, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park, Hove, Portslade, Shoreham, Worthing, West Worthing, Durrington, Goring, Angmering, Littlehampton 2tph Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges, Hayward's Heath (wait to be overtaken by Brighton fast train), Wivelsfield, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park, Brighton These 4-car trains would be half of 8-car trains, the other half going to: 2tph Horsham (stopping) 1tph Littlehampton (semi-fast) 1tph Portsmouth & Southsea (semi-fast) There would of course be theoretical capacity to strengthen one half or other of these trains to 8 cars (although there are short platforms on the Eastbourne route), so long as this 4tph did not originate on the Thameslink route (and presuming that Salfords has been lengthened). Actually, this 4tph should probably (as they'd provide the main Gatwick service) switch over the the Quarry Lines and run into Victoria. (Any WLL trains (up to 4tph) would fit nicely through whilst all the combining/decombining at Gatwick and stopping at Three Bridges was going on.) At peak times an extra 4tph can be found by making the in/out connections at Hayward's Heath separate trains, running fast on the additional side. This would then leave the matters of: - providing a service via Redhill (probably terminating at Gatwick) - providing London Bridge / Thameslink service (these last two may nicely add up) - deciding where to send East Grinstead / Uckfield services (London Bridge is better operationally) - working out how the heck to serve Balcombe (this is the downside of nice interchanges at Hayward's Heath) |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Sun Jan 14 14:33:02 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 17:20:12 2007. my perception is that on the Tattenham Corner branch only Reedham and Smitham have significant ridershipAccording to the spreadsheet, ridership is quite evenly distributed along the Tattenham Corner branch, and total ridership on the Tattenham Corner branch is about equal to that on the Caterham branch. The East Grinstead branch carries more passengers than the Tattenham Corner and Caterham branches combined. Run 4tph of 12-car expresses an hour out of Victoria: Then use 4-car trains to form the following connections into/out of those trains: At peak times an extra 4tph can be found by making the in/out connections at Hayward's Heath separate trains, Thanks for the explanation. I want to compare your plan with the present and RUS service patterns before responding. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Sun Jan 14 22:24:09 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 17:20:12 2007. The greatest demand for time-slots is during the peak hours and, as you have mentioned, through East Croydon.During the 08:00 to 08:59 hour the following numbers of trains arrive at London terminals after going via East Croydon: 17 at Victoria; 16 at London Bridge; 2 at Blackfriars (via Tulse Hill; continues towards Bedford); 0 at Kensington Olympia; 35 total. The PRAR website has station work books showing the rolling stock used on each Southern train that terminates. During the 08:00 to 08:59 hour there are 13 12-car trains, 12 8-car trains, 3 6-car trains and 1 4-car train; total 29 trains. The remaining six trains are the two Thameslinks (of unknown length) and the four Gatwick Expresses (believed to be 5-car or 8-car trains). The SRA reported that the biggest waste of time-slots was due to light use of the Gatwick Express in the peak hours. Without exception, all trains via Haywards Heath are 12 cars long in the 8 AM period; these are individual trains, not formed by merging shorter trains. Many of the shorter trains are shorter because of short platforms. The only ones that merge are some of the Tattenham and Caterham trains, which merge at Purley during the peak period to form 6 or 8 car trains. In order to provide a better service, some 12 car trains could be merged from shorter trains; that would also avoid selective door opening, as I think some 12-car trains stop at shorter platformed stations. Apart from that, I agree with the SRA that the Gatwick Express should be killed and replaced by trains from the coast that stop at Gatwick Airport and East Croydon. In my opinion that would make the best use of the route, at least in the rush hours. In the off-peak periods there is no real shortage of slots, and it's easier to devise a reasonable service pattern. But why merge trains at Gatwick Airport rather than Haywards Heath, and why don't all your trains call at Gatwick Airport? By the way, I did notice one Virgin train (probably the only one) that runs from Manchester to Brighton. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 03:51:37 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by David Fairthorne on Sun Jan 14 22:24:09 2007. During the 08:00 to 08:59 hour the following numbers of trains arrive at London terminals after going via East Croydon:17 at Victoria; 2 Slow via Norbury 2 Fast, but from the East Grinstead / Uckfield Lines 4, presumably, Gatwick Express So, presumably, 9 proper fast trains then. 16 at London Bridge; 1 Slow via Norbury 1 Norwood Junction, Sydenham, and Forest Hill only (Slow) 3 Norwood Junction only (Fast) 5 Fast, but from the East Grinstead / Uckfield Lines So, presumably, 6 proper fast trains then. 2 at Blackfriars (via Tulse Hill; continues towards Bedford); 0 at Kensington Olympia; 35 total. It's actually not looking too bad. In the off-peak periods there is no real shortage of slots, and it's easier to devise a reasonable service pattern. But why merge trains at Gatwick Airport rather than Haywards Heath, and why don't all your trains call at Gatwick Airport? Because Gatwick Airport needs the dwell-times, whilst people from the coast are irritated by the idea of those being stuck on their trains. By the way, I did notice one Virgin train (probably the only one) that runs from Manchester to Brighton. Did you notice the exceptionally silly route between Birmingham New Street and Kensington Olympia (it takes 2h29, approximately an hour longer than the sensible route would)? |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Max Roberts on Mon Jan 15 05:43:45 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Fri Jan 12 19:54:29 2007. SLL is an absurdity, but the best solution in my opinion is to divert the SE services from Lewisham into Victoria via the SLL and Battersea Park, so that Clapham and Wandsworth get to keep their services. I think that facilities exist to do this around Denmark Hill. People for London Bridge could change at Peckham Rye. This would save the SLL sets, and is the sort of joined-up thinking that government civil servants are totally incapable of. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 05:46:08 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Max Roberts on Mon Jan 15 05:43:45 2007. And then send them via a more sensible route east of Lewisham too - like the North Kent Line. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Max Roberts on Mon Jan 15 05:53:23 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Sat Jan 13 14:40:07 2007. There is a very tempting line of thought which says "railway not working, convert it into LRT". I am very suspicious of this. The reason why Croydon Tramlink works is that it took railrays in densely populated areas, that did not offer particularly convenient links to London, and sent them to somwhere that people would want to go instead.Tattenham Corner branch does not have the housing density, so would it succeed as LRT? Probably not, and on-street running would make it subject to local traffic. Inner suburban via Selhurst and Norwood Junction need somewhere to turn round, is it being proposed to send them all to West Croydon? If not, (and assuming that East Croydon cannot cope with large numbers of terminating trains) then trains need somewhere to turn round after visiting South Croydon to Purley, and Smitham and Caterham at least take them out of the way. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Mon Jan 15 16:15:04 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 03:51:37 2007. It's actually not looking too bad.Sorry but I didn't count the slow trains via Norbury that start from East Croydon. Count three more "proper fasts". Gatwick Airport needs the dwell-times That's true, and I suppose that's why your four tph long trains wouldn't stop there. And as you mentioned before, cross-platform interchange at Haywards Heath would benefit passengers changing between long trains and short trains. Did you notice the exceptionally silly route between Birmingham New Street and Kensington Olympia No I didn't. Who runs it, and what silly route does it take? Currently in the noon hour the following services run via Redhill or via the Quarry line: 12:00, 12:15, 12:30 and 12:45 Victoria to Gatwick only (Gatwick Express); 12:06 and 12:36 Victoria to Brighton fast (6 cars); 12:17 Victoria to Southampton fast and Eastbourne slow (8 cars; splits at Haywards Heath); 12:47 Victoria to Hastings fast and Littlehampton slow (8 cars; splits at Haywards Heath); 12:11 and 12:41 (Thameslink) London Bridge to Brighton; slow south of Gatwick; 12:26 and 12:46 (Thameslink) London Bridge to Brighton fast; 12:02 Victoria to Portsmouth and Bognor via Redhill and Horsham (8 cars; splits at Barnham); 12:32 Victoria to Chichester via Redhill and Horsham (8 cars); 12:03 London Bridge to Tunbridge Wells via Redhill (3 cars); 12:33 London Bridge to Horsham via Redhill (4 cars); 12:37 (from Watford) Olympia to Brighton; slow south of Gatwick; Total off-peak: 17 tph, or 20 tph counting splits separately. Your service plan, when fully specified, would have to be better than this, and better than the SRA plan. So far as I remember, the SRA would extend the Gatwick Express to the coast, abolish the Haywards Heath splits, and have all trains call at East Croydon. They would also eliminate Brighton services from the West London line. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 16:58:21 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Max Roberts on Mon Jan 15 05:53:23 2007. Tattenham Corner branch does not have the housing density, so would it succeed as LRT? Probably not, and on-street running would make it subject to local traffic.Well, it's not a very good place for any segregated alignment really... Tattenham Corner branch does not have the housing density, so would it succeed as LRT? Probably not, and on-street running would make it subject to local traffic. But the fact remains that it doesn't actually go anywhere that the few people out there would want to go. Inner suburban via Selhurst and Norwood Junction need somewhere to turn round, is it being proposed to send them all to West Croydon? Obviously that wouldn't be good. If not, (and assuming that East Croydon cannot cope with large numbers of terminating trains) then trains need somewhere to turn round after visiting South Croydon to Purley, and Smitham and Caterham at least take them out of the way. Hmmmm. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by JohnL on Mon Jan 15 21:13:32 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by David Fairthorne on Mon Jan 15 16:15:04 2007. Just so you know that you two guys are not having a private conversation. I’m following this with interest but don’t have enough knowledge to provide meaningful contributions.I lived in Notting Hill Gate: south of the Thames is a black hole… |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Max Roberts on Tue Jan 16 05:32:52 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 16:58:21 2007. If the government was really serious about tackling the London Housing shortage, they would take underperforming lines such as this, and relax planning restrictions within a 1 mile radius of every station. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Tue Jan 16 06:26:02 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by JohnL on Mon Jan 15 21:13:32 2007. Just so you know that you two guys are not having a private conversation. I’m following this with interest but don’t have enough knowledge to provide meaningful contributions.Knew you would! I lived in Notting Hill Gate: south of the Thames is a black hole… LOL! Although that's quite an interesting phenomenon... (and I don't feel all that confident about my knowledge of about half of London north of the River (the eastern half).) |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Tue Jan 16 08:01:00 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Max Roberts on Tue Jan 16 05:32:52 2007. If the government was really serious about tackling the London Housing shortage, they would take underperforming lines such as this, and relax planning restrictions within a 1 mile radius of every station.They'd also need a withholding tax (like the French have) or you'll have to wait for the grannies in their detached bungalows, people who'd rather hold onto their land for the horses, and the EU-subsidised farmers to die off. But ultimately development around the outer end of the Tattenham Corner branch would backfire. For arrivals at London termini between 0800 and 0859, Tattenham Corner has the following trains and journey times: 2tph Victoria 53-55 mins 2tph London Bridge 56-57 mins And they're not evenly spaced either - the gaps are: (19) VC 17 LB 8 VC 16 LB (10) Conversely, at Epsom you have in the same interval: 6tph Waterloo 36-39 mins 3tph Victoria 38-42 mins 2tph London Bridge 45-47 mins So people will still drive into Epsom for the faster, more frequent service. The problem is that the buses south from Epsom (166, 318, 460, 621, E5 (Langley Vale branch)) are extremely infrequent, and only the 166 accepts travelcards: 166 - 1bph west of Banstead (how nice of them to turn the other 2bph there) 318 - 5bpd all off-peak Mon Wed Fri only (can someone design a more useless bus service?) 460 - 2bph at 20/40 intervals (you couldn't make this stuff up!), one of which runs into Walton-on-the-Hill and back out again; this route is a detached segment of the Green Line route 406, the TfL portion of which at least runs an even 2bph. 621 - 1bpd off-peak Fri only E5 (Langley Vale branch) - roughly 1bph into Epsom in the am peak, roughly ½bph otherwise, last bus back from Epsom at the uselessly early time of 1845 Somewhere I've got an Excel file of how to sort out the buses around Epsom so that they're actually useable. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by Max Roberts on Tue Jan 16 09:01:28 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Tue Jan 16 08:01:00 2007. Tattenham Corner should have been joined to Epsom Downs, which would have given more competitive journey times to London, the current route is very roundabout. I am sure that the farmers would love to be able to sell off their land for housing, so no need to evict the grannies just yet. |
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Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters) |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Tue Jan 16 14:16:35 2007, in response to Re: West London Line & West Coast Main Line (Was: Cockfosters), posted by Rail Blue on Mon Jan 15 03:51:37 2007. I have noticed that in the off-peak period (midday) there are no trains from Victoria to the following stations:Coulsdon South, Merstham, Earlswood, Salfords (served from London Bridge) Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park (served from Thameslink via London Bridge) Off-peak most passengers want Victoria rather than London Bridge, and that's one thing that I would like to remedy. The present off-peak service is as follows: 4 tph Victoria to Gatwick only 2 tph Victoria to Brighton fast 1 tph Victoria to Southampton & Eastbourne (splits at Haywards Heath) 1 tph Victoria to Hastings & Littlehampton (splits at Haywards Heath) 1 tph Victoria to Portsmouth & Bognor via Redhill and Horsham (splits at Barnham) 1 tph Victoria to Chichester via Redhill and Horsham 2 tph Thameslink via London Bridge to Brighton fast 2 tph Thameslink via London Bridge to Brighton slow 1 tph London Bridge to Tunbridge Wells via Redhill 1 tph London Bridge to Horsham via Redhill 1 tph Watford to Brighton slow TOTAL 17 tph After killing the Gatwick Express, this is what I suggest off-peak: 2 tph Victoria to Brighton fast 2 tph Victoria to Brighton slow 1 tph Victoria to Eastbourne fast 1 tph Victoria to Eastbourne slow 1 tph Victoria to Littlehampton via Hove fast 1 tph Victoria to Littlehampton via Hove slow 1 tph Victoria to Portsmouth via Redhill and Horsham 1 tph Victoria to Bognor via Redhill and Horsham 2 tph Victoria to Horsham via Redhill 2 tph Thameslink via London Bridge to Brighton fast 2 tph Thameslink via London Bridge to Brighton slow TOTAL 16 tph That would eliminate all splitting, and provide at least 1 tph from Victoria to all stations. All trains would call at East Croydon and Gatwick Airport. I would like to send the Thameslinks via Redhill, to maintain a service from London Bridge to Redhill. Then there would be 8 tph via Redhill and 8 tph via the Quarry line. As for the peak hours, the Brighton line is near capacity, and I would want to know the loadings of individual trains before deciding how better to use the Gatwick Express slots. I would not aim for a regular clock-face service pattern during the peak period. |
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