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| (224006) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 22:37:31 2006, in response to questions about archer ave extension., posted by xtimx on Sat Mar 4 22:31:44 2006. The upper level was supposed to connect to the LIRR line and terminate in Laurelton, IIRC. There was no plan that I know of to extend the lower level further than Jamaica Center. |
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| (224026) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Mar 4 23:25:30 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 22:37:31 2006. Isn't it the lower level that ends in the middle of a crossover? I seriously doubt the lower level was not planned for extension. |
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| (224035) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 23:45:07 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sat Mar 4 23:25:30 2006. Not sure, since I've never seen the tunnel and track up close. More distant observations from the Jamaica Center platform show only 2 tracks continuing for about one trainlength and then dead ending. |
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| (224047) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Mar 5 00:08:54 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 23:45:07 2006. I think you're mixing up the upper and lower levels. IIRC you can't even see the end of the tunnel from the platform on the lower level. |
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| (224049) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by TonyD on Sun Mar 5 00:10:55 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 23:45:07 2006. Does anyone remember a special Sunday supplement in the New York Times from the early 70's devoted to the MTA and all of the plans they were thinking of at the time ? There were lots of pictures of the then new M1 cars which gave the LIRR a great deal of trouble. |
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| (224063) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by xtimx on Sun Mar 5 00:43:16 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by TonyD on Sun Mar 5 00:10:55 2006. i think i might have that article. i don't remember if the M1 cars were discussed but it did talk about the state of transit in nyc.i'll try to find that article and see what it says. |
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| (224066) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Phantom909 on Sun Mar 5 00:50:18 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 23:45:07 2006. According to Peter Dougherty`s "Tracks of the New York City Subway", Lower level Tracks J1 & J2 extend about a train length east of Jamaica Center. Tracks D1A & D2A on the upper level "curve right and go on to approx. 3000 feet before dead-ending against a bumper block. It was intended to link with the Montauk Branch of the LIRR and "share" the ROW to Springfeild Gardens in SE Queens."IIRC, it was supposed to extend to Springfeild Blvd & Merrick Blvd. Joe |
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| (224068) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Mar 5 00:51:23 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Mar 5 00:08:54 2006. Oops, lol. *I* mixed up the lower and upper levels. LMAO.I still coulda sworn both levels were supposed to be extended... |
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| (224096) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 5 02:48:33 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Mar 5 00:51:23 2006. At one point there was a plan to have the upper and lower levels connect beyond the existing terminal. This was proposed to give greater flexibility in case of a service disruption on the Q.B. lines or the Jamaica lines. The value of such a connection was deemed not worth the expense. I've never seen a drawing of that connection, however. I have seen drawings of the proposed extension of the upper level to Rosedale . |
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| (224116) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 5 08:17:40 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 5 02:48:33 2006. I don't know about the lower level. But my understanding was it was to continue along Archer Avenue somewhere. |
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| (224118) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Alargule on Sun Mar 5 08:27:18 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Phantom909 on Sun Mar 5 00:50:18 2006. So there would have been a joint operation of the LIRR tracks, similar to most of Tokyo's lines? |
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| (224122) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 5 08:38:47 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Alargule on Sun Mar 5 08:27:18 2006. A joint operation if the FRA didn't squash the idea years ago. |
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| (224126) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Eric B on Sun Mar 5 09:11:31 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 5 08:38:47 2006. I don't know if that was the original plan, but I had always heard that the branch would be take over by the subway, and the LIRR trains using it moved to the other branch. (And a problem was whether it could handle the extra traffic). |
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| (224127) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by andy on Sun Mar 5 09:21:21 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Phantom909 on Sun Mar 5 00:50:18 2006. Just to clear up this post and its replies, the upper level (E train) was supposed to be extended to Rosedale on the LIRR Atlantic Branch r.o.w., originally planned to use two new tracks to be built straddling the current ones. Then another plan was floated to triple track the LIRR Montauk Branch and use the the two Atlantic Branch tracks for subways only. Obviously these plans are today dead and buried, especially with the MetroCard eliminating the two-fare zones in Queens and everywhere else.The lower level, (J train) was planned to extend directly east to Hollis, paralleling the LIRR along Archer Ave. Again - very unlikely to happen. |
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| (224138) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 5 09:55:19 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Alargule on Sun Mar 5 08:27:18 2006. No! Joint operation would not be practical due to:LIRR uses 750 VDC for traction power while NYCT uses 600 VDC Signal systems are incompatible Car envelope differences would reqire moving platforms at stations. |
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| (224150) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 10:38:36 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by TonyD on Sun Mar 5 00:10:55 2006. The NYT supplement was called "Millions on the Move", dated 06/20/1971. It contains numerous articles and maps detailing the 2nd Avenue subway and other never-completed or never-started projects.The Archer line appears to be continuing past Parsons then heading south along Guy Brewer Blvd to the LIRR ROW to Springfield Blvd & 141 Avenue. The detail of the Queens NYT map is not down to street level so I'm basing this routing by comparing it to a present-day Hagstrom map. Who knows if construction of any section(s) past Parsons/Archer were ever started? Calling Tunnel Rat....... |
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| (224164) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by H.S.Relay on Sun Mar 5 11:36:50 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 4 22:37:31 2006. The lower level invert is definitely set up for a middle track, or tracks, east of the platforms. Although the BMT wasn't planned to go anywhere further, they were at least thinking about adding extra layup space. |
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| (224181) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:32:46 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Alargule on Sun Mar 5 08:27:18 2006. I don't think so. If you look at the current subway map, the LIRR line intended for subway service from Archer Ave is redundant. A joint service operation would not be necessary. |
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| (224188) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:34:50 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Eric B on Sun Mar 5 09:11:31 2006. That matches what I've heard. Conversion of an existing ROW exclusively for subways. |
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| (224196) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:40:50 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by andy on Sun Mar 5 09:21:21 2006. Obviously these plans are today dead and buried, especially with the MetroCard eliminating the two-fare zones in Queens and everywhere else. The LIRR conversion would make a lot of sense, even with today's realities. That area has no other rail service. Buses from this part of Queens to subways @ Jamaica Center are slow and inefficient. The LIRR doesn't give a damn about the residents of these neighborhoods. There are no stations between Rosedale and Jamaica. This is a prime location for a new subway extension, with several new stations built to serve the community Long Islaners only see as a passing blur on their way to Penn Station. |
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| (224218) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Mar 5 13:05:34 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 10:38:36 2006. Are you sure that's the right date? It's not showing up in the ProQuest archives. |
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| (224238) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 5 14:53:00 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:40:50 2006. They could put in a station or two along that 3000-foot stretch of existing tunnel. |
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| (224283) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Mar 5 17:44:24 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:40:50 2006. There are no stations between Rosedale and Jamaica. This is a prime location for a new subway.Wow, riders at Locust Manor and Laurelton are going to pelt you with eggs. Instead of wasting money on a subway, maybe we should be ecnouraging more ridership via the LIRR. It's done in nearly every other respectible city with transit. |
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| (224286) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 17:51:22 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Mar 5 13:05:34 2006. I have it right in front of me; 'June 20, 1971, Section 11'. Maybe because it's technically an advertising section it's not in ProQuest. |
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| (224306) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by grimace1169 on Sun Mar 5 19:20:55 2006, in response to questions about archer ave extension., posted by xtimx on Sat Mar 4 22:31:44 2006. A track map of the proposed extension for the E line was in a recent Bulletin from the ERA. Supposed to have a multi track yard and car wash. The lower level on the J is not too clear. I remember someone on this board or Subtalk had said that it was supposed to extend just to Merrick Blvd. which isn't far away. That provision for a diamond crossover that ends abruptly at the wall my have been for the new terminal there. |
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| (224322) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Mar 5 20:02:17 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 17:51:22 2006. Rats. ProQuest is finding the ads pointing to the supplement on pages S4, 34, and 44, but it doesn't seem to have archived the supplement itself.According to the display ads, "This supplement will be submitted in New York City and suburbs only." Perhaps ProQuest's ancestor had an out-of-NYC subscription. |
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| (224353) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 5 20:46:23 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by daDouce Man on Sun Mar 5 08:17:40 2006. You can see the end of it from the end of the platform. It's one train length.Truthfully, you could extend it to Merrick Blvd and build a station there. I'll bet you could even bring it in for under $300 million, depending on what you wanted the new terminal to look like. |
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| (224371) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 21:15:43 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by David of Broadway on Sun Mar 5 20:02:17 2006. It's a magazine-style section. I'm glad I saved it all these 35 years. |
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| (224374) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 5 21:17:38 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 21:15:43 2006. Interested in scanning it for us? |
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| (224439) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Mar 5 23:10:43 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Phantom909 on Sun Mar 5 00:50:18 2006. I think that 3000 feet for the E-train is exaggerated. According to a T/O who posted on the old subtalk, the tracks end at Liberty Av and 160 St, a distance of about 900 feet from the east end of the Jamaica Center platform. I know there's an emergency exit at 160 St about 50 feet north of Liberty Av. |
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| (224444) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Mar 5 23:20:41 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by VictorM on Sun Mar 5 23:10:43 2006. Where do the J tracks end? |
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| (224448) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Mar 5 23:31:47 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Mar 5 23:20:41 2006. I think Dougherty's book is correct on that one - about a train length, or a little less. |
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| (224449) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Sun Mar 5 23:41:45 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by VictorM on Sun Mar 5 23:31:47 2006. Having watched construction of both lines[E&J] and having been in both upper&lower sections I can positively say that beyound the bumperblocks on both levels NOTHING was built.On the `J`level the layups go to the b/blocks&the tunnel dead ends.It was supposed to go to merrick blvd/168st.but stopped at jamaica centre.the distance from there to 168st is apx 1/2 a mile. we had this talk about 2 months ago. |
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| (224450) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Mar 5 23:43:27 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Mar 5 17:44:24 2006. "Wow, riders at Locust Manor and Laurelton are going to pelt you with eggs."Maybe the residents and workers of St. Albans aren't as violent, but they surely are booing and hissing. |
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| (224451) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Sun Mar 5 23:44:58 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Mar 5 23:20:41 2006. the E tracks end just south of south road in a church parking lot.the distance IS about 3000 feet. |
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| (224452) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 5 23:46:07 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 5 12:32:46 2006. The Atlantic Branch is not redundant by any means. You would have to funnel traffic from the Babylon, Long Beach and Far Rockaway Lines (and a bit of West Hempstead) into two tracks into Jamaica. Those lines are just too busy. The switching necessary at Valley alone would be a nightmare. |
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| (224453) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Sun Mar 5 23:49:04 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by RonInBayside on Sun Mar 5 20:46:23 2006. There would be no advantage to extend it to merrick road. |
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| (224454) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Mar 5 23:49:06 2006, in response to questions about archer ave extension., posted by xtimx on Sat Mar 4 22:31:44 2006. Just as a general comment-- either or both levels could possibly be extended almost anywhere regardless of whether it was originally planned. The idea may have been to run along the LIRR ROW, but remember that the E extension itself began originally as a provision for a Van Wyck Blvd line, so anyone who is willing to grab the ball can run with it anywhere.Right now, I'd make a big loop between the E and F to increase turning capacity-- but also leave provision for other expansion. |
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| (224486) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Mar 6 07:59:58 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Mar 5 23:49:06 2006. Looping! Thats the answer!Run the "E" and "F" to Belmont Park Raceway. Send the "F" clockwise and the "E" counter Clockwise . This way both trains serve all stattion beyond Van Wyck Blvd, but only on in one direction. SEND the "E" along the LIRR ROW to Hempstead tnpk, north through the raceway station , north to Hillside and back to 179th. Send the "F" along Hillside to the Nassau Line , south to the raceway station then back along Hempstead Tnpk, LIRR row to Jamacia center. Both "E" AND "F" serve all stattions , but only in oposite directions . avid |
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| (224489) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by North-Easten T/O on Mon Mar 6 08:18:35 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Sun Mar 5 00:08:54 2006. The lower level of the J only can hold one train in back of each track, the upper level of the E can hold 3 trains on each track. I hate when they have my Put In in the last posion, The walk can be a killer if your not ready for it.Robert |
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| (224496) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 6 08:44:28 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Tunnel Rat on Sun Mar 5 23:49:04 2006. By itself it wouldn't be a huge advantage. But if you did it with the intention of extending it again to yet another stop east of there (so in two stages) it would definitely be worth it. It would help spur additional redevelopment in that business district. |
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| (224499) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Tunnel Rat on Mon Mar 6 08:50:00 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 6 08:44:28 2006. Unfortunately ther are no plans,or most important,MONEY for any possible ext.I doubt I,ll live to see the SAS/ESA ever built. |
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| (224501) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 6 08:54:53 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Tunnel Rat on Mon Mar 6 08:50:00 2006. The next 12 months will be critical. Let's see what happens. DMDM+Harris is probably half-way through its final tunnel design. That's what the constructors will be following after breaking ground. |
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| (224504) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 6 09:01:59 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 6 08:54:53 2006. DMDM+HarrisTry again, Ron... |
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| (224512) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Mon Mar 6 09:33:54 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Avid Reader on Mon Mar 6 07:59:58 2006. Like the name of a Rutle's song says: "All You Need Is Ca$h!" |
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| (224514) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Mar 6 09:36:23 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 5 21:17:38 2006. I can't scan the whole thing, it's too big. But I have scanned some of the maps and will gladly email them (one at a time, I'm on dialup) to someone who can then post them here or somewhere else. |
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| (224549) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Mar 6 11:29:25 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 17:51:22 2006. I remember that date for another reason. The Mets were playing the Phillies and Ken Singleton hit a mammoth home run completely out of The Toilet Bowl, over the back fence in right field and presumably out to Roosevelt Ave. Yes, Singleton was a Met in '71 and was involved in the trade that brought Rusty Staub to New York - the first time.Just to keep this on topic, I saw the Mets in person the previous day during Batting Helmet Day and took the 7. I still have the helmet. |
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| (224557) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 6 11:56:43 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by Dan on Sun Mar 5 10:38:36 2006. A half-mile of curving tunnel was constructed past Archer/Parson's upper level. |
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| (224576) | |
Re: questions about archer ave extension. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 6 12:22:54 2006, in response to Re: questions about archer ave extension., posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Mar 5 17:44:24 2006. Wow, riders at Locust Manor and Laurelton are going to pelt you with eggs. Wrong line. Montauk, not Far Rock. However, there IS a station on the branch in question that I had forgotten about (St. Albans). |
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