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| Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX (1645026) | |
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| (1645170) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:16:47 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Handbrake on Fri Nov 14 17:36:59 2025. They don't have rights to property that isn't their own, and yet they think they do.Zoning constrains one's right to do with one's real property what one pleases. I don't criticize Robert Moses for what he accomplished and whenever the topic comes up, I usually praise him and lament that he didn't go far enough, even though I still oppose his anti-transit bent. An elevated highway would make my life a lot easier, yes. Would save me many hours a week from having to drive to and from the nearest highway. |
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| (1645171) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:20:09 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 18:05:09 2025. No. People should travel how they feel like traveling as long as they pay the costs of it. |
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| (1645172) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 18:22:38 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Handbrake on Fri Nov 14 17:14:54 2025. Pictured here is the NYCRR ROW at Roosevelt Ave in the early 1920s with 2 tracks clearly showing room for additional tracks |
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| (1645173) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:24:12 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 18:22:38 2025. That looks like one track and room for a second and then that's it? |
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| (1645174) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Nov 14 19:30:34 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 18:22:38 2025. Pictured here is the NYCRR ROW at Roosevelt Ave in the early 1920sThe unused western half was made part of the BQE in the early 1960's. |
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| (1645175) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Nov 14 19:34:19 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 13 14:17:03 2025. The value of their homes would go up, not down.So will their property taxes. |
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| (1645178) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 20:39:59 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Nov 14 19:34:19 2025. Yes, that’s how property taxes work. |
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| (1645179) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 20:40:21 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Nov 14 19:30:34 2025. Not at that spot. The BQE ran next to the RR ROW leaving that overpass intact. At one time there was a Rosevelt Ave exit (northbound) from the highway. Since then the exit is gone with the BQE's reconstruction. |
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| (1645180) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 20:42:48 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:24:12 2025. On the eastbound side ROW, you can see 2 sets of coal exhaust stains on the overpass. A clear indication of 2 tracks |
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| (1645182) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 14 20:52:04 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:20:09 2025. But with parking minima, aren't we telling developers that they have to accommodate and make one mode -- driving -- easier? That is, the developers need to pay the drivers costs? |
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| (1645184) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 21:22:12 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 18:20:09 2025. If gas powered cars paid their REAL costs, only the very well off could afford to drive them. You could start with the US Navy costs of shepherding oil tankers in the mid east, pollution next door to refineries, as many deaths in car incidents as murders, land wasted as multi-lane freeways rather than plants making oxygen, and multiple other costs we could avoid. |
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| (1645185) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 21:27:26 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 20:42:48 2025. Thanks! |
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| (1645186) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 21:28:49 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Nov 14 20:52:04 2025. They pay the costs of the externalities they create, or pay to prevent them.Negative externalities are one of those things that capitalist economies need government intervention for. |
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| (1645187) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Nov 14 21:29:27 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 16:53:05 2025. I’m not down with replacing small private houses with multiple dwellings. |
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| (1645188) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 21:31:00 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 21:22:12 2025. Hyperbole. |
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| (1645189) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 21:36:04 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 21:31:00 2025. Have you ever lived in suburban sprawl, or had a refinery as a neighbor? |
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| (1645190) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Nov 14 21:46:01 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 18:05:09 2025. I didn’t agree with that |
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| (1645191) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Nov 14 22:10:04 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 21:27:26 2025. You're welcome |
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| (1645192) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 22:13:24 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Nov 14 21:36:04 2025. No, I’ve never had a refinery as a neighbor. What’s your point? There are other “undesirable” land uses besides refineries and oil has other uses.I wouldn’t want to live next to an organic power plant either, but electrical power is absolutely necessary. |
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| (1645194) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by sloth on Fri Nov 14 23:40:22 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Handbrake on Fri Nov 14 17:14:54 2025. Has there been any indication that CSX is willing to play ball on the right of way north of Fresh Pond? Because I don't think that's a given and no one ever talks about it. |
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| (1645198) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Bill West on Sat Nov 15 03:11:25 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 14 20:39:59 2025. Denser zoning may raise the dollar digits in a house's value but the homeowner actually loses. This is because a house's value is dollar value+home size/quality value+location value. Rating the location as 1 to 10 stars, a home in a single family neighbourhood that is rezoned to high rise might go from $500k to $750k but it will fall from 7 stars to 3. Meanwhile the $500k/7 star houses in a nearby un-rezoned neighbourhood will go to $800k because of the reduced number of such houses available. Oh and if you take the money and move, the real estate commission on selling the $750k house in order to move will be around $20-25k along with $10-15k moving costs. So that's $730k net sale and $815k net buy to end up no better than you were.Our whole political dilemma these days is not thinking these things through far enough. Bill |
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| (1645202) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 15 03:36:31 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Bill West on Sat Nov 15 03:11:25 2025. You’ve upgraded to a more valuable house. How is that no better? |
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| (1645213) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by piyer on Sat Nov 15 10:08:41 2025, in response to Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 10 15:25:14 2025. WOW! There's at least one NIMBY who objects to the freight traffic too.*ahem* I think the city is woefully behind the curve in expanding rail rapid transit services. There need was seen a century ago with the IND Second System proposals. The city has grown, even in under-served areas, while expansion plans have been torpedoed or shelved. I am not, however, sold on the IBX. I'm concerned about several issues, chief among them is the impact this would have on future freight operations. The bridges can only support so much traffic. The more truck traffic, the less auto traffic. By downgrading the Bay Ridge line's freight capacity, are we trading a rail corridor for a new set of bridges to get truck freight into the city? In one of the other comments here, someone was talking about existing subway stations being the same half-mile walk to new IBX stops. While this might be true, it ignores capacity issues. Can existing stops and lines absorb more passengers and more trains? I attended Brooklyn College in the 2008 to 2010 window. Pulling into the Flatbush Ave terminal in the morning, trains were often delayed due to traffic. You'd see outbound trains packed like sardines as they left the terminal. That's a station that would be a half-mile walk from an IBX stop. Would IBX reduce the crowding on the 2&5? Maybe not, but could the 2&5 absorb a few thousand more riders that might otherwise have used IBX? Definitely not. It's the same elsewhere. New lines aren't just for convenience but to address capacity issues elsewhere. Like Second Avenue is supposed to help the 4/5/6 in Manhattan. I do have empathy for the NIMBY crowd. I grew up in Brighton Beach in the 1970s & 80s. The blocks of little bungalows and the Brighton Beach Baths - and the Oceana movie theatre. *sigh* The neighborhood is barely recognizable today. I'd have loved to have kept my "hometown" as it was. But the one constant in life is change. You can choose to be a architect of that change to a victim of it. NIMBY folks are the latter. |
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| (1645223) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Nov 15 12:16:38 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by piyer on Sat Nov 15 10:08:41 2025. I attended Brooklyn College in the 2008 to 2010 window. Pulling into the Flatbush Ave terminal in the morning, trains were often delayed due to traffic.A couple factors combine to create congestion at terminals. Generally, stub terminals should be able to handle 15 tph. This us due to the time it takes trains to clear the interlocking ahead of the station. The interlocking must handle trains in both direction or 30 tph. It takes about 1 minute for a train to clear the interlocking. If trains arrive at the interlocking every 2 minutes (30 tph), then a sufficient condition to eliminate switching conflicts is to schedule trains to arrive every 2 minutes and to ensure that all trains are within 30 seconds of their scheduled arrival. Unfortunately, MTA schedules are precise the nearest 30 seconds. They need to write schedules with 1 second precision. The second problem is that the MTA increased scheduled running time to "improve" end-to-end on time performance. Trains travel faster than the published schedules. The result is that trains arrive at terminals well before their scheduled arrival time. Outgoing train departures are written according to the scheduled arrival time. The real world result is that early arriving trains must wait until the outgoing train leaves according to the padded schedule. Like Second Avenue is supposed to help the 4/5/6 in Manhattan. Actually it was the reverse. The MTA created crowding on the Lex to justify building the SAS. I discussed how this was accomplished in a this previous post. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1645092 |
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| (1645225) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Bill West on Sat Nov 15 14:06:36 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 15 03:36:31 2025. You’ve upgraded to a more valuable house. How is that no better?Because the $500k house on a quiet street with space between the houses and grass in the yards is a lot more valuable to the owner's total enjoyment of his home than a $750k house with curb to curb traffic, a high rise towering over it, the view is a 100' into some apartment living room and the whole rest of the block is concrete. And when he sells that $750k it will not buy a better place in the same neighbourhood than the $500k place would buy in its neighbourhood. In my youth I played in grassy yards within the city, I just drove past a low rise apartment in an up-zoned area. The kids can only play in the parking lot and the view out of their windows is of the dumpster bins. Not unusual but not as appealing. We need to spread out. There is lots of open space in this country for new towns of 75-150k population that would be quite nice to live in. All that is needed as a seed is 3-4 medium sized companies committing to setting up enough core employment. Bill |
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| (1645226) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 15 14:34:13 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Bill West on Sat Nov 15 14:06:36 2025. Of course it won’t go in the same neighborhood. I think I made that clear when I talked about how I DGAF about saving neighborhoods. Obviously the people would have to take their profits and move to a new neighborhood farther away.Anyway, your post implied that the 800K house cost 700K when the first house cost only 500K. It made it sound like the homeowner was able to move on up to a more deeluxe house on the grou-ound. The reason the build dwellings without yards in the city is because the land is spectacularly expensive. Artificially keeping some land underdeveloped makes more useful land more scarce. |
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| (1645265) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 17 13:36:57 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Nov 11 15:28:25 2025. Old Vulcan proverb:"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - or the one." If IBX fills the needs of more people than it harms, then the needs of the many come first. If the needs of the few or the one came first, nothing would ever get built. |
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| (1645266) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 17 14:18:43 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 17 13:36:57 2025. You would be correct if no grift/graft were ivolved. |
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| (1645270) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 17 19:18:54 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 17 13:36:57 2025. If the needs of the few or the one came first, nothing would ever get builtLOL! That's exactly how things get built, particularly when it's the wants of the oligarchic types running the government. |
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| (1645271) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Nov 17 20:48:46 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 17 19:18:54 2025. correct. |
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| (1645274) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Nov 18 09:02:58 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 17 13:36:57 2025. Actuall,"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is a core principle of Utilitarianism, and is a quotation originally from John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) an English philosopher and political economist. |
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| (1645276) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Tue Nov 18 13:33:27 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Nov 17 19:18:54 2025. Finally you realize that our current government is run by oligarchs. |
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| (1645277) | |
Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 18 14:00:25 2025, in response to Re: Middle Village and Maspeth NIMBYs come out to oppose IBX, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Nov 18 09:02:58 2025. PWNED! |
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