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"Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain"

Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 09:39:21 2021

LGA

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(1584633)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 7 11:59:51 2021, in response to "Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain", posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 09:39:21 2021.

Please Kathy, just scrap the whole damn thing.

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(1584642)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 12:42:50 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 7 11:59:51 2021.

Andrew's minions still run the Port Authority. Being from Buffalo, she would not know the nitty-gritty of getting around northern Queens. It is conceivable they could brainwash her.

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(1584645)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 7 13:14:49 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 12:42:50 2021.

Being from Buffalo, she would not know the nitty-gritty of getting around northern Queens.

Her chief of operations is Kathryn Garcia, who does know the nitty gritty of Queens.



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(1584646)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Allan on Tue Sep 7 13:16:08 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 12:42:50 2021.

His minions only run half of the PA, the other half is run by Gov. Murphy.

It is the Port Authority of NY and NJ.

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(1584648)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Sep 7 13:20:01 2021, in response to "Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain", posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 09:39:21 2021.

It's too expensive.

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(1584650)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 13:41:38 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Allan on Tue Sep 7 13:16:08 2021.

NY's half wouldn't vote against something for the NJ half, and vice versa. Voting against this could jeopardize the new PABT, which is for NJ even though it is in Manhattan. Don't count on Murphy to block anything.

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(1584651)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe on Tue Sep 7 14:12:58 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 13:41:38 2021.

One of Prince Andrew's good qualities is that he could bowl over the obstructions of NIMBYs, as in New Hyde Park with the 3rd track. The AirTrain to Shea is bringing people to a time-wasting connection. I attended one of the early meetings regarding sending the subway to LaGuardia. The meeting was held in an auditorium in the Museum of the Moving Image. No matter which route was proposed,a crowd of NIMBYs and their politicians blocked it. I came away favoring a route close to the Hell Gate bridge line (more noise near Woodside houses), then following the BQE to the terminals, forking east of St. Marys cemetery.

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(1584652)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 14:31:01 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 7 11:59:51 2021.

As someone that has taken the Q70 to Roosevelt a few times I can't imagine that this AirTrain could possibly be a better route than the bus. Just make the bus better by allowing it to approach the subway unobstructed by all the double parked cars and create a dedicated space for a terminal.

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(1584653)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 14:38:27 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 14:31:01 2021.

I guess there already is a dedicated place... I never take it towards LGA, just going home, and they drop you on Roosevelt under the El, but pick up in the bus zone.

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(1584654)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 14:42:42 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 14:31:01 2021.

Whatever traffic lights the Q70 encounters, the drivers should be equipped with a device to "shoot the lights" to save a couple of minutes. I don't know the technical term.

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(1584655)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 7 14:47:35 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 14:31:01 2021.

Yeah, just subsidize the bus by running a few more than needed, perhaps so it comes every 5 minutes instead of every 10, and do a few things to give it priority, and you'd have a wonderful improvement for a tiny portion of the long-term cost.



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(1584670)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe on Tue Sep 7 14:12:58 2021.

One of my neighbors, whose been in the neighborhood for decades, says she wouldn't stand the subway being extended, nor would her 80-something year old friend.

The NIMBY power is Astoria is really underestimated.

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(1584678)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by randyo on Tue Sep 7 18:23:59 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021.

What we need is a subway version of Robert Moses who would do for rapid transit what Moses did for highways regardless of the opposition!

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(1584682)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 19:01:35 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021.

Define "wouldn't stand".

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(1584683)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Sep 7 19:14:31 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Tue Sep 7 18:23:59 2021.

True

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(1584688)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by zac on Tue Sep 7 20:43:43 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Tue Sep 7 14:47:35 2021.

It wouldn't cost all that much to improve the bus that last little bit that it needs. I agree, every 5 minutes would be better. You'd never feel like you missed it that way. Escalators to the platform for the E/F/R/M? Are there any? If not, an escalator directly to the bus exit if possible with luggage holders too. Make it a more direct connection than it already is and advertise it. Use some of those billions that they save.

I see on streetview that there are bicycle lanes on Broadway. Relocate them so the buses can move more freely although as a cyclist I'm sure this is a bike lane that isn't honored anyway.

We are talking about 2-3 long blocks on Broadway that need some improvement and that's not that much. That section of the BQE doesn't get too bad towards LGA (but I couldn't tell you by time of day) but once on the GCP a dedicated lane is needed as that can be slow or at a standstill, and a dedicated entrance to the terminal drop offs too. If they could build a monorail, they can build a busway.

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(1584786)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 8 23:53:07 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 19:01:35 2021.

They can't stand the thought of the line being extended.

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(1584861)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Sep 9 18:55:36 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Sep 8 23:53:07 2021.

Probably because it would reduce the value of their homes that I'm sure in some cases, their heirs are already counting on the money from once they pass.

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(1584886)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Sep 9 23:03:47 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021.

Run a special airport service from the end of the El using old 2-stroke diesels with the screaming scavenge blower from Ditmars to the airport. Thatíll change their tune ;-)

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(1584892)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Sep 9 23:56:14 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021.

Run a special airport service from the end of the El using old 2-stroke diesels with the screaming scavenge blower from Ditmars to the airport. Thatíll change their tune ;-)

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(1584900)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 10 01:51:02 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Sep 9 18:55:36 2021.

On the other hand it might INCREASE the value of their homes as was the case in Jersey City along the streets that the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail runs on.

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(1584912)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 07:09:40 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Steamdriven on Thu Sep 9 23:56:14 2021.

Someone ought to replicate some old Mack buses with their growling engines, and have them idle at Ditmars station.

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(1584939)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 11:34:19 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Fri Sep 10 01:51:02 2021.

NIMBYs always fear reduced real esate values, which is the opposite of what happens when transit arrives.

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(1584945)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 10 12:24:42 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by randyo on Fri Sep 10 01:51:02 2021.

Except that it wouldnít. The people along the stretch of 31st past the el terminal would get an el over their street, but no real benefit as they wonít be any closer to a subway station.

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(1584950)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 10 12:47:08 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 10 12:24:42 2021.

They wouldnít extend the el up 31st/Ditmars towards LGA when you have the freeway to LGA crossing the line right before that at Astoria Boulevard.

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(1584951)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 10 12:51:11 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 10 12:47:08 2021.

Ö But I get your point. 🙂

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(1584963)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:27:59 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Sep 10 12:47:08 2021.

The plans was to branch off at Astoria Blvd, not extend from Ditmars.

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(1584969)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Sep 10 15:47:31 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:27:59 2021.

Not the original plan.

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(1584971)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:56:58 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Italianstallion on Fri Sep 10 15:47:31 2021.

There is a plan somewhere that says that.

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(1584975)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Sep 10 16:15:47 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 11:34:19 2021.

Why not run those new electric buses from LGA to Ditmars & 31st St?

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(1584976)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by jimmymc25 on Fri Sep 10 16:28:49 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:56:58 2021.

Honestly, I lost track of what was what.

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(1585045)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 10:22:13 2021, in response to "Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain", posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 7 09:39:21 2021.

Sadly I think the Air Train is a go under Hochul.

She gave an endorsement to Rick Cotton and said she likes big projects because they bring J-O-B-S.

This according to an article I read on line the other day. I honestly forgot the source/author.

But bringing jobs just for the sake of jobs for such an assinine project is wasteful over the long run.

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(1585046)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 10:27:26 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:27:59 2021.

Poor idea. Then it becomes double headways and reduced service for Ditmars Blvd., exactly like Lefferts/Far Rock.

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(1585049)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 10:42:32 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 10:27:26 2021.

Not exactly. N & W would split. Leffert/Far Rock is a split A, so 20 -24 minute intervals, though they would have to run the W on weekends.

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(1585052)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 11:05:44 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 10:42:32 2021.

Forget about line names.

NYCT would never run twice the service actually needed. If some trains were to split off at Astoria Blvd, Ditmars would definitely have less service than it used to have. That doesn't make it necessarily a bad idea, but there's no point denying that Ditmars would lose some service.



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(1585056)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 11 12:18:28 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 11:05:44 2021.

This would be a proper FU to the NIMBIES.

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(1585057)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 11 12:19:09 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 11 10:22:13 2021.

IAWTP

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(1585064)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 13:01:26 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 11:05:44 2021.

Say we had the Rockaway Beach Line, with one of the Locals sent down it. 71st Ave-Forest Hills loses service.

F train went to 63rd. 53rd-Lex and 53rd-5th lost F trains, back-filled only with daytime weekday M's, and fewer of them than lost F's.

Hillside lost half their trains to Archer.

New service often means someone loses.

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(1585065)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 13:55:11 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:27:59 2021.

The plans was to branch off at Astoria Blvd, not extend from Ditmars.

Never was.

The problem is that the approach to the Hell Gate Bridge is in the way.

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(1585066)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 13:58:01 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 10 15:56:58 2021.

There is a plan somewhere that says that.

But not one that is physically practical.

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(1585067)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 14:06:22 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 13:01:26 2021.

New service often means someone loses.

That was my point.


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(1585068)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 14:13:00 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 13:55:11 2021.

One could go over it.

It's 2,000 feet from the Astoria El to the Hell Gate Bridge. Enough distance to gain the needed elevation.


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(1585069)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 11 14:14:44 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Sep 11 12:18:28 2021.

Agreed, the NIMBYs around Ditmars Boulevard would be the reason it would have to follow the expressway, so if they complain bring that back up to them.

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(1585070)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 11 14:25:37 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 13:55:11 2021.

The IND plan was kind of weird.

They wanted to build a 21st Street subway as well that would turn east down Ditmars where the Astoria line would merge with it, and then both lines would make their way to Horace Harding Boulevard and Springfield Boulevard via Astoria Boulevard, 114th Street, Flushing Meadows Park, and Horace Harding Boulevard.

Iíve never seen any official provision for service to LaGuardia Airport so I canít comment on that, but the Horace Harding Boulevard idea was killed when Robert Moses built the Long Island Expressway and against the cityís wishes left no room for mass transit along it.

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(1585073)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Ancient Mariner on Sat Sep 11 15:26:19 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by GojiMet86 on Tue Sep 7 16:47:31 2021.

Every time this subject is raised, I suggest doing an end run around the NIMBYs and just build a branch off of Phase II of the Second Avenue Line turning EAST north of the 116th Street station. This would permit a clear shot under the East River, surfacing either on Randall's Island or on the northern shore of Queens near Lawrence Point, and then traversing an area which is 100% industrial, with nary a NIMBY in sight.

Express trains from LaGuardia would have direct access to the upper East Side, and then Broadway in Manhattan - none of Cuomo's backward crap.

Why wouldn't this work???

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(1585077)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 16:48:08 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Ancient Mariner on Sat Sep 11 15:26:19 2021.

Why wouldn't this work???

Time. Money.

Otherwise an excellent idea.



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(1585080)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 18:06:31 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 14:13:00 2021.

One could go over it.

It's 2,000 feet from the Astoria El to the Hell Gate Bridge. Enough distance to gain the needed elevation.


Here's your problem.

According to DeLorme's Topo North America ver. 10.0 (2013), the land elevation at Astoria Blv N & 31st St is 28 ft above sea level. The land elevation at Astoria Blv N & 41st St is 53 ft above sea level.

A 1% grade for 2000 ft would gain 20 ft. That's taken up by the increase in land elevation.

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(1585081)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 18:13:54 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Sep 11 18:06:31 2021.

A 1% grade

There are plenty of Class 1 major freight railroads that have 2.2%*. I can't easily find what the WB is, but I think it's more.

* Examples: Stampede Pass in WA, crossing northeast OR diagonally. There certainly are many more.


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(1585082)

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Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain''

Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 11 18:24:20 2021, in response to Re: ''Transit advocates urge Hochul to scrap LaGuardia AirTrain'', posted by AlM on Sat Sep 11 18:13:54 2021.

Isn't LIRR's Cold Spring Hill around 1.7% ? MU's have no trouble with it.

The TA has 5% grades.

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