|
|
| Times Square shuttle question (1581342) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
|
| (1581346) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Sat Jul 24 16:16:52 2021, in response to Times Square shuttle question, posted by Allan on Sat Jul 24 14:56:15 2021. How does the MTA plan to get 6 car sets. A 5 car set and a single from the Flushing line. Do you think they really need 6 cars and can't use 2 five car train sets already configured? I have the same question with the Franklin Shuttle...what happens when the 75 foot cars have to be replaced? |
|
|
| (1581348) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Allan on Sat Jul 24 16:33:47 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by jabrams on Sat Jul 24 16:16:52 2021. The cars will be R62/62A not R1242/188.As for the R68s on the FS, I would say there is another 10+ years left on those cars. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1581353) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by bzuck on Sat Jul 24 18:29:34 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by Allan on Sat Jul 24 16:33:47 2021. My guess on the FS is when all 75 foot cars are retired the platforms will be extended to 240 feet and four car sets will run there. |
|
|
| (1581357) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 24 20:01:02 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by jabrams on Sat Jul 24 16:16:52 2021. They could treat those Frankin Shuttle 68s like the PCC still running in Boston and Philly... Just simply keep them in service after the mainline R68/68As are retired, just keep SMSing them when needed. Rebuild them to have the population systems the NTT have if you need to. |
|
|
| (1581358) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 24 20:01:06 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by jabrams on Sat Jul 24 16:16:52 2021. They could treat those Frankin Shuttle 68s like the PCC still running in Boston and Philly... Just simply keep them in service after the mainline R68/68As are retired, just keep SMSing them when needed. Rebuild them to have the population systems the NTT have if you need to. |
|
|
| (1581402) | |
Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 25 15:35:26 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by bzuck on Sat Jul 24 18:29:34 2021. If they are going to extend the platforms, I would look to extend them out to the full 600 feet and return the line to two tracks so in an emergency, the (B) and/or (Q) can use them and actually increase capacity on the line as well. Perhaps on weekends in that scenario, the (B) could actually run as a shuttle between Franklin Avenue and Coney Island and replace the (S) then.That would also be part of a longer-term plan to connect the current shuttle to another line. |
|
|
| (1581403) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Jul 25 18:11:09 2021, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 25 15:35:26 2021. I don't know WHY they decided to sever the tracks from the Fulton El in the early 1920s |
|
|
| (1581404) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Jul 25 18:11:09 2021. I don't know WHY they decided to sever the tracks from the Fulton El in the early 1920sThe new subway from Prospect Park to downtown Brooklyn pretty much made the connection no longer useful. Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1581405) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Sun Jul 25 18:38:41 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021. With a single track, any breakdown in either direction north of Botanic Gardens KO's the entire northern part of the line. I guess they would run a shuttle to/from B.G. to PP for the transfer to/from the IRT. |
|
|
| (1581412) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 25 21:08:27 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021. According to a PSC report I have from the time of the dual contract planning, as part of the third tracking and upgrading of the entire Fulton St el an “improved” connection was to be built between the Fulton St el and what the report called the “Brighton Line” which today’s Fkln Shuttle. |
|
|
| (1581414) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Jul 25 23:10:24 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by jabrams on Sun Jul 25 18:38:41 2021. Back then it was 2 tracks. |
|
|
| (1581415) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Jul 25 23:19:37 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021. Still, it was a one seat ride from Park Row to Brighton Beach |
|
|
| (1581419) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 26 04:58:33 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by randyo on Sun Jul 25 21:08:27 2021. Ah, ha, thanks!randyo |
|
|
| (1581422) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 07:06:22 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 24 20:01:02 2021. They can convert 3 or 4 four-car sets of R160s to three-car, and the same number of four-car sets to five-car with the extra B car. Or, since they'll need the option orders on the R211 to retire the R68, they'll just build 3 or 4 sets of three-car trains.They won't want the oddball R68s because of service issues. |
|
|
| (1581426) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 26 07:12:19 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 07:06:22 2021. I agree, though they would probably have to move some machinery around to make 4 cars sets in 3's and 4 car sets in 5'.Minority oddballs do not survive on large transit systems, and they will want the end once and for all to SMEE-derived equipments with H2 couplers. Even now, is there anything stopping them from putting the AA sets of R46's on the Shuttle, and put 8 of the 9 R68's back into main line service other than re-equipping them with side destination signs ? |
|
|
| (1581427) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 08:27:48 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 26 07:12:19 2021. There would be nothing gained by putting the R46 on the shuttle in place of the R68 at this point. |
|
|
| (1581440) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Mon Jul 26 10:10:47 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 08:27:48 2021. We assume you are mixing the Franklin Shuttle with the original Times Square Shuttle thread. |
|
|
| (1581444) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 13:18:25 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by randyo on Sun Jul 25 21:08:27 2021. The upgrading was killed off after the BRT bankruptcy after Malbone St. Its successor, the BMT was supportive of the Ashland Place project until they found out that they would be on the hook for rebuilding the elevated structure as well as the $40 million needed for new 200 steel subway cars. |
|
|
| (1581447) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 26 14:07:28 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 08:27:48 2021. There would be nothing gained by putting the R46 on the shuttle in place of the R68 at this point.Besides the R-68's assigned to the Franklin Ave shuttle no longer has roll sign boxes on the sides. Instead there are fixed signs dedicating these cars to this line. Who knows what happened to the original sign boxes ? Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1581449) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 14:39:01 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Jul 25 23:19:37 2021. In rush hours, yes. Non-rush hours, it ran from Fulton Ferry. |
|
|
| (1581450) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 14:42:03 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021. Not only did the BMT sever the track connection, they rebuilt the Franklin Ave station in 1924. |
|
|
| (1581452) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 15:39:31 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 26 14:07:28 2021. I thought they were used as spares. |
|
|
| (1581454) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 15:41:57 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 13:18:25 2021. I've always wondered if the Ashland Pl connection would work. Wasn't Dekalb already a bottleneck, hence the rebuild? Where would 200 additional cars end up in Manhattan? |
|
|
| (1581461) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 26 17:05:30 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 13:18:25 2021. There is actually more to it than that which I have gone into in detail in other posts on this subject. |
|
|
| (1581462) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 26 17:07:00 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 14:39:01 2021. From what I have read Fulton Ferry was predominantly a rush hour only service so any short line service would have run from Sands St. |
|
|
| (1581465) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 26 17:16:47 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by zac on Mon Jul 26 08:27:48 2021. As I have mentioned before in several posts, due to the R-46s having been GOHed with the more standard OB couplers and electronic signs its not beyond the scope of possibility that the R-68s and 68As will be scrapped ahead of the R-46s. |
|
|
| (1581470) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 26 18:50:05 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 26 17:16:47 2021. Lest we forget, the Triplexes were pulled before the last of the BMT standards. |
|
|
| (1581471) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 26 18:58:09 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 26 17:16:47 2021. Or maybe they will rank them by MDBF, and scrap by anythign that gave them a lot of trouble with every monthly scrap list. They can shift R46's and R68's back and forth between CIY and Pitkin for the triage period. |
|
|
| (1581497) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Dan on Tue Jul 27 08:44:52 2021, in response to Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 25 15:35:26 2021. ' Perhaps on weekends in that scenario, the (B) could actually run as a shuttle between Franklin Avenue and Coney Island... 'IIRC up until around 1950 such a service pattern existed. |
|
|
| (1581503) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 27 09:54:57 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Dan on Tue Jul 27 08:44:52 2021. I think they had that service in the summer until about 1962! |
|
|
| (1581505) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 27 11:20:18 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 27 09:54:57 2021. Yes, and I would be looking to revive that as part of lengthening all of the Franklin shuttle platforms to 600 feet and two tracks.Part of that would also be longer-term to connect the Franklin Shuttle to the existing portion of the Myrtle Avenue Line that remains for a new Myrtle-Brighton line that ALSO would include connections from such a line to the Broadway-Brooklyn line for operational flexibility, especially in an emergency. |
|
|
| (1581509) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by zac on Tue Jul 27 13:32:00 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 26 18:50:05 2021. For that matter, the R32 outlasted all the SMEEs that came after. |
|
|
| (1581524) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by jailhousedoc on Tue Jul 27 16:26:14 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 27 11:20:18 2021. please show on a map of Brooklyn exactly how this would be accomplished. I lived right near the Franklin Ave. shuttle when I was a child up until I turned 21, and the line is nowhere near Myrtle Ave. |
|
|
| (1581525) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 27 16:38:18 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by jailhousedoc on Tue Jul 27 16:26:14 2021. You do realize that you are talking to a guy who wanted to keep the 6th Ave el running, even after the IND subway opened in 1940! |
|
|
| (1581565) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Jul 28 02:20:29 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 26 14:39:01 2021. Yeah, I meant rush hours |
|
|
| (1581849) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 1 15:38:07 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 27 16:38:18 2021. Well then we couldn't have sold it to Japan.The IRT wasn't happy with losing it. It was the ONLY Manhattan El line that brought riders to the heat of Midtown |
|
|
| (1581857) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 1 17:02:20 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 1 15:38:07 2021. For the 10th or more time,THEY NEVER SOLD IT TO JAPAN!!!! The 6th Ave el was taken down by Harris Structural Steel, under the direction of its head, Thomas Harris Sr. In an interview about the Japan rumor, Mr Harris said that all of the iron and steel was shipped to Bethlehem Steel for melting down and reprocessing. According to him, there was no way of knowing what went where, once it was melted down. If you don't believe me, call them up for yourself and ask to speak with his son, Thomas Harris Jr. They are still in business!Your second sentence is also wrong. In early 1938, Thomas E Murray, the very capable Receiver for the bankrupt IRT wanted to break the 1903 lease and separate the Manhattan Elevated Ry from the Interborough. His thinking was that the IRT, divorced from the MER could operate at a profit without the aged els losing money. |
|
|
| (1581858) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Aug 1 17:18:50 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 1 17:02:20 2021. Mike: That is one hoary myth that just wouldn't die. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1581859) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 1 17:32:28 2021, in response to Times Square shuttle question, posted by Allan on Sat Jul 24 14:56:15 2021. I don’t think anyone answered your original question.Considering that there are already both a T/O and a C/R on each run/trip of the 42 Street shuttle, I don’t think anything needs to change once they have 6 car trains. |
|
|
| (1581866) | |
Re: Times Square shuttle question |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 2 01:56:07 2021, in response to Re: Times Square shuttle question, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 1 17:32:28 2021. There are no C/Rs on the T/Sq Shuttle. Both employees are OPTO qualified T/Os. |
|
|
| (1581883) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 2 14:58:20 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 1 17:02:20 2021. Thank you. |
|
|
| (1581942) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 3 15:20:30 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 1 17:02:20 2021. You're confusing two issues.The IRT wanted to break the Manhattan El lease to ameliorate their monopolistic error of trying to dominate the rapid transit market in Manhattan by leasing competitors (same thing that brought NYNH&H down). They didn't succeed in keeping the BRT out, but had the albatross of the el's losses sucking money out of the subway's profits. The 6th Avenue el was a different issue. Within the Manhattan el system it was the most desirable line. |
|
|
| (1581974) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 4 06:41:01 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jul 25 18:33:40 2021. They also probably didn't want to run wooden el cars thru Malbone St ever again. Didn't the BMT want to connect it to its version of the Crosstown line? |
|
|
| (1581977) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Wed Aug 4 07:27:45 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 4 06:41:01 2021. yes. it was to be the bedford ave. subway. provisions were made at fulton-n nostrand[A] line and nostrand on the GG line. |
|
|
| (1581996) | |
Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Aug 4 14:50:58 2021, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 4 06:41:01 2021. Yes, the BMT had an elevated version of the Crosstown line. It would have connected the Franklin shuttle to Queens Plaza. By the time the BMT began to share the IRT Flushing & Astoria lines, in 1923, interest in this Crosstown project, as well as the Ashland Place portal, declined. The newly formed BMT did not want to pay to buy new cars and equipment to run these lines.As for the IND plans, the proposed Bedford Ave subway routes from S 4th St and from the Crosstown line under Lafayette Ave were abandoned in the early 1930's, due to the Depression and distrust of the BMT. Even a scaled back plan from Brooklyn interests, to connect IND Fulton to a Bedford Ave subway, south of Fulton St, were ignored. |
|
|
