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| (154375) | |
other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Wed Oct 12 12:47:49 2005 when I was akid riding the seabeach towards man.I noticed a lirr track crew removing a switchback between the bayridge line and the seabeach line,this is about 1957,where both roads paralel each other for a few 100 feet.over the years I,ve asked both T.A.&lirr guys if they remember this conn.none did.apx.5 years ago I was in the crew quarters at penn.station/lirr. and asked about this,alirr conducter who lived in bayridge also remembered it.he had been asking the same thing for years and no one remembered it.he was glad to meet me,and I him as to confirm this connection.anyone else out there recall this? there was the parkville conn.between the lirr and south bklyn rr.where we got both freight and new cars delivered.also the ny&northern rr.conn.into the 9th. ave el. at 155st.early timetables show that the ny&northern ran specials from boston to wall st.via 9th. ave tracks&3rd.ave.el.row,ah,the good old days.in the late 1880s there was a giant revivale meeting up state,the ny&northern could not handle the load and called upon the 9th.ave.to supply both trains and crew to help them out.so for a few days you had nyc.rapid transit going upstate.my authority on this is bill wall,for those of you that know him.he also has talked to oldtime maintainers who HAVE been in the 76st. station.and describe it exactly the way it was described to me.more to follow at a later date. |
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| (154378) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Wed Oct 12 13:11:55 2005, in response to other interesting track connections, posted by tunnel rat on Wed Oct 12 12:47:49 2005. for those of you that know him.he also has talked to oldtime maintainers who HAVE been in the 76st. station.and describe it exactly the way it was described to me.more to follow at a later date.Talk about opening a can of worms.... |
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| (154403) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Oct 12 14:45:54 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Bob Andersen on Wed Oct 12 13:11:55 2005. A little-known program on the R110B's showed C to 76th Street. :) |
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| (154452) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 16:36:40 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Bob Andersen on Wed Oct 12 13:11:55 2005.  he also has talked to oldtime maintainers who HAVE been in the 76st. station.and describe it exactly the way it was described to me The LION *was* at Pitkin and 76th Street this summer! The LIONs report *is* authoritive.  The LION got off of the (C) train at Euclid Avenue, and after a brief examination of the station, said LION went up to the street. There are IND type ventilation grates along both sides of Pitkin Avenue at this point. The LION walked east on Pitkin Avenue, and the subway grates followed him, or rather they followed Pitkin Avenue, upon which throughafare the LION was walking. The LION walked to Conduit Avenue, and the grates were still there. Beyond Conduit The (A) train bends to the Left, and the Grant Avenue station is right there. It might as well be on Pitkin for all practicle purposes. There *are* subway grates beyond Grant street, and there are also subway grates bending to the south and the Pitkin Avenue yards. At Eldert Lane the contour of the land drops suddenly about 30 feet, and there are NO MORE subway grates beyond Eldert Lane. Pitkin avenue is also somewhat narrower, and the sidewalks are much smaller. Therfore from the surface examination the LION concludes that there was NEVER as subway tunnel beyond Eldert Lane on Pitkin Avenue.  The LIONs findings as outlined in this report are binding on all SubChaters as the definitive and penultimate intrepretation on the existance or non-existance of said 76th Street station on Pitkin Avenue in Queens New York. Desenting Opinions are NOT permitted. |
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| (154462) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by vfrt on Wed Oct 12 17:09:13 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 16:36:40 2005. That settles it. Elderts is 4 blocks from 76th Street. The subway vent grates would have to continue to 76th if there was a tunnel beneath Pitkin along that stretch. So there is no station at 76th Street. Case closed. |
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| (154465) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Clayton on Wed Oct 12 17:15:41 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 16:36:40 2005. You guys never heard of an unventilated tunnel? I've "seen" abandoned tunnels/stations before that have absolutely no method of ventilation making it quite stuffy. This doesn't prove anything. |
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| (154468) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Oct 12 17:24:31 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 16:36:40 2005. Hey, I like your photo....it must be like some sort of religious experience once a railfan finally visits that intersection....sort of like visiting Area 51 for UFO buffs, or the Winchester Mansion in San Jose for Ghost enthusiasts.Winchester Mansion, Area 51, Pitkin/76th St, all the same difference. |
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| (154470) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 17:33:23 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Clayton on Wed Oct 12 17:15:41 2005. This doesn't prove anything. Does Too! We are talking about a late vintage IND tunnel. It would have been ventilated. Especially this close to the surface.
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| (154476) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by vengence on Wed Oct 12 17:57:42 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 17:33:23 2005. Not if they wanted to make the tunnel disappear....Simple repaving..resufacing..New sidewalks...removeal of any traces of subway work can be done. Look in upper Manhattan..The sidewalk vents for the SAS are filled in..and if you didn't know about it ALREADY,you would've never known there was a tunnel under the street. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Wed Oct 12 19:27:50 2005, in response to other interesting track connections, posted by tunnel rat on Wed Oct 12 12:47:49 2005. There was also a track connection between the New Haven RRand the 3rd Avenue El in the Bronx near 133 St. The New Haven had a fleet of smaller coaches and Forney steam locomotives which were of a size compatible with the Manhattan elevated lines. It is possible that the NHRR ran specials down to City Hall or South Ferry via the 3rd or 2nd Ave el during the steam days. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 12 20:05:46 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 17:33:23 2005. They could have been removed. No need to ventilate a space no one uses. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 12 20:07:53 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Oct 12 14:45:54 2005. We have confirmation! |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:44:29 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 17:33:23 2005. >> It would have been ventilated. <<It might have been filled in when Jimmy Hoffa was buried there. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Wed Oct 12 20:44:33 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Oct 12 16:36:40 2005. I dissent!What you gonna do about it? :) Hell, I've been there myself, and there's stuff to support either conclusison. There's nothing definitive... |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:48:34 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Oct 12 17:24:31 2005. >> It must be like some sort of religious experience once a railfan finally visits that intersection... <<I don't know about that-- but the few times I've driven on Pitkin Ave, what has made me curious is that the street is mostly residential-- not the sort of neighborhood where one might expect to find a subway. Maybe what happened was that as they were digging the tunnel, after they got past 76 St, someone poked his head above ground for a bit and said, "Lands, sakes gang-- we done gone and dug too far! This is a suburban-type neighborhood-- better stop here!" |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:25:49 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by vengence on Wed Oct 12 17:57:42 2005. Simple repaving..resufacing..New sidewalks... NOPE! Pitken would be wider, and so would the sidewalks. That work has not been done. So no tunnel. BTW: Did I not tell you that the LION spake the LAST words on this topic?
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:28:43 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 12 20:05:46 2005. They could have been removed. No need to ventilate a space no one uses. The streets and sidewalks would still be wider than what they are. The LION has spake the LAST WORD, or do you want to be catfood.
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:30:46 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:44:29 2005. It might have been filled in when Jimmy Hoffa was buried there. Jimmy Hoffa NOT there. Jimmy Hoffa is riding Redbirds off the Jersey coast.
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| (154577) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 00:31:18 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:25:49 2005. pitkin is just as wide at grant ave where the 4 layup tracks end as it is at 76st.any doubts about this,go down and measure it yourself. |
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| (154579) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:32:26 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by R7 Torresdale Express on Wed Oct 12 20:44:33 2005. There's nothing definitive.. The Grand and Glorious and Most Imperial LION *is* definitive by definition. Cat Food!
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| (154580) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by vengence on Thu Oct 13 00:34:25 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:25:49 2005. How do You KNOW the work hasn't been done?I see the photo's and walk the area....paving work HAS been done..sidewalk replacement HAS been done... So IF ANY subway work had been carried out...the signs are gone... Just like the Second Avenue subway... |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:37:17 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:48:34 2005. The tracks stop at Elderts. That *is* the county line. The last of the Pitkin grates are just before Elderts, there are none on the other side. From that point the terrain drops about 30 feet, the street is of different construction, and the sidewalks are narrower, that is the houses there still have front yards. These would be the sidewalks had the line continued.(ROAR) |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by vengence on Thu Oct 13 00:39:50 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:48:34 2005. The same thing could have been said about parts of Queens Blvd...and Hillside Avenue..while they were building the IND there...Yet they continued to build. |
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| (154594) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 00:56:12 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Jeff H. on Wed Oct 12 19:27:50 2005. jeff,the 3rd.ave el.,in the days of steam had trackage rights over the nhrr to the morris park race track.it ran from wall st.to the racetrack and was known as `the brokers express`.not because you were a broker,just that you came back broker than you left.true story.also an old time brt/bmt motorman by the name of`frenchy`who I loaded up the signal dolly told me that when fordham had boat races against columbia U.the 3rd. ave.el. would fire up the old forneys and hook them up to the summer observation cars they would go via the willis ave. conn.into the nhrr freight yards,back up the 5 trains to the harlem river and he and his pop would watch the races.he also remembers going to rockaway park via LIRR mp41s at chambers st. big maroon cars with gold lettering on the sides saying LIRR.the boatrace trains sterted somewhere in lower manhatten. supercop. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 01:17:43 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by vfrt on Wed Oct 12 17:09:13 2005. The Lion has spoken. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 01:18:42 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:37:17 2005. dear mr.lion,did dorothy and toto accompany you on your journey?FYI elderts lane is not the county line,its 3 blocks east,try forbell st.tunnel rat rules and the cowardly lion drools.lol. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 01:25:46 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 00:56:12 2005. First of all, I have to pay homage to my home line. The S curve on the M train between Central Avenue and Myrtle-Broadway is one of the most interesting in the system. It was even more interesting, from a switching perspective, when the old Myrtle MJ was running before 1969. That ramp up to the upper level was something--what a wonderful, unobstructed view of south Brooklyn while heading to Jay Street.Second of all, I have a question about the old Second and Third Avenue els. After the trains crossed into The Bronx, I have heard that there was a ramp connection between the Third Avenue el structure and the White Plains Road el. Is this true? Where was it located? Did White Plains trains ever go down either old el? And, of course, do any of you railfans have any old photos? |
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| (154603) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Oct 13 01:38:40 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Oct 12 20:07:53 2005. Does anyone have pics? |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Oct 13 01:44:42 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 12 20:48:34 2005. Maybe the neighborhood was rezoned for a suburban-type neighborhood as the line was movimg along. |
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| (154617) | |
Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by //ROOT on Thu Oct 13 04:31:33 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 01:25:46 2005. I believe there was a track connection at Gun Hill Road. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 13 05:13:29 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by //ROOT on Thu Oct 13 04:31:33 2005. Gun Hill Road it was! Here's a view from GunHill road on the Third Avenue el pointing to where it turned and went up to the lower level at the gunHill road stop on the WPR, and from there merged going north to 241. I believe originally the Third Avenue el trains ended at 238th ... You can see more pictures of the Third Avenue el in 1973 here: http://www.palter.org/~subway/index.html |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 13 11:21:46 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:30:46 2005. No No, he's at Giants Stadium :) |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 13 11:32:14 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:28:43 2005. Hey, I agree. I'm just playing devil's advocate. 76th St doesn't exist. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Thu Oct 13 12:00:38 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 01:25:46 2005. In 1904, there was a connection from the el at 149th Street to the Bronx Park branch of the new subway. This was generally (always?) used by Second Ave. el trains to Freeman St.At the time of the Dual Contract construction, a new connection was built from the el, between 143rd and 149th St. stations, via Bergen Ave, to the same point on the subway, to avoid the congestion at 149th St. After that, the original connection remained in place, but was used less (or not at all). Also as part of the Dual Contracts, the el was extended from a junction north of Fordham Rd. via Webster Ave. and Gun Hill Road to a connection with the White Plains Road line. Until some time in the early 1950s, el trains ran up the ramp north of Gun Hill Rd. station and onto the White Plains Road line. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Oct 13 12:07:16 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 13 11:32:14 2005. 76th St doesn't exist.If 76th St. doesn't exist, why did they name a subway station after it? |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 13 12:13:49 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Oct 13 12:07:16 2005. Hahahaha!drumb goes: tatatata tap |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Thu Oct 13 12:16:14 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 13 11:21:46 2005. You've been watching too much Mythbusters. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Oct 13 12:20:06 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Oct 13 12:07:16 2005. That's just bad. Rotten. But I walked right into it. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 13 12:48:59 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Oct 13 01:38:40 2005. That doctored R-10 photo doesn't count. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 13 12:51:49 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Oct 13 11:21:46 2005. I say he's in Grant's Tomb. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Oct 13 13:19:32 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 00:28:43 2005. The margay, ocelot, African sand-cat, the lynx, and the Bobcat will all gang up on you! |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Oct 13 13:25:57 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 13 12:48:59 2005. Besides that. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 13 13:35:27 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Oct 13 12:48:59 2005. There's no R10 in this one, so does it count?I almost got clobbered the last time I posted this.... 
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 14:32:56 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 01:18:42 2005. FYI elderts lane is not the county line,its 3 blocks east,try forbell st.tunnel rat rules My Bad. Rat very bad! Elderts *is* County line for long distance, but not at Pitkin. Still LION finds no evidence of tunnel east of Elderts. East of Elderts terrain falls as LION has said. On Pitkin County Line *is* three blocks east of Elderts, but is NOT Forbell! On Pitkin line is at Ruby Street! At NO PLACE is county line on Forbell. So PHFTFTftftftfftttttttttt.............. First numbered street *is* 76th Street. LION makes Cat Food out of Rats. LIONs RULE!
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 14:48:11 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 14:32:56 2005. broadway pussycat,meow,meow meow,meow +12.I was testing you and you passed,I patroled those streets as a city cop for ten years.you get a extra mouse for din-din.tonite. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 15:09:03 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 14:48:11 2005.  |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by tunnel rat on Thu Oct 13 15:55:10 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 15:09:03 2005. your better looking than I imanagined,can I come over and rub your tummy with a picture of 76st.?lol the caption should read"who dat dat drop dat upside mah head" |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 20:28:29 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Michael Wares on Thu Oct 13 12:00:38 2005. Thanks, Unca Selkirk and Michael. Youse has loined me sumptin'. |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by rushhoursardine on Thu Oct 13 20:31:52 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 13 13:35:27 2005. Chris, dat stop don't exist nowhere. Concede the point that the photo is doctored by those affected by Pitkinitis, or be devoured by da Broadway Lion! |
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Re: other interesting track connections |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Fri Oct 14 02:19:16 2005, in response to Re: other interesting track connections, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Oct 13 14:32:56 2005. The Brooklyn/Queens line varies from Jamaica Avenue to Jamaica Bay. |
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