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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 28 07:58:32 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 04:44:05 2020.

Did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Fire College too?

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(1541834)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 28 08:15:04 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 07:42:55 2020.

Perhaps the arsonist didn't know this.

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(1541835)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 08:47:32 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 04:44:05 2020.

That's of course because the prefix "in" can mean both "into" and "not."



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(1541837)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Mar 28 09:27:20 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Mar 27 16:53:19 2020.

Is that five-car set a total loss, or can any cars be salvaged?

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(1541838)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 28 09:28:19 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Mar 27 17:41:53 2020.

Unless that site is blocked by his famous filtering.

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(1541841)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:07:39 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 28 08:15:04 2020.

What do you mean, "the arsonist didn't know this." Everyone knows this except for the FDNY videotographer. He was surprised that there was a second alarm and expressed that on the recording. Perhaps jayzero should reconstruct him.

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(1541843)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:09:01 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Mar 28 09:27:20 2020.

I heard 3 cars were a total loss so I guess 2 will be kept as organ donors.

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(1541845)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 10:46:14 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:07:39 2020.

Div. 3 transmitted the second alarm (on arrival) before he even got out of his car. Not going to get into a debate with you on this side of the board.

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(1541846)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Mar 28 10:50:20 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:09:01 2020.

I heard 3 cars were a total loss so I guess 2 will be kept as organ donors.

Something like R-143 #8277 that hit the bumping block at Canarsie yard some years back ? I heard that car was sent to Kawasaki for repair, but sent back as unrepairable.

So #8277's mates have been canabalized since then ?

Bill Newkirk

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(1541847)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:54:34 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Mar 28 10:46:14 2020.

I wasn't looking o debate with you. You are the FDNY expert. Nearly saying that the guy who did the video disagreed with you

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(1541848)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 10:56:22 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Mar 28 10:50:20 2020.

Pretty much. There's a long back story there, though

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(1541852)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 28 11:56:28 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Mar 28 10:50:20 2020.

8277 was repaired and is back in service along with her mates.

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(1541853)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 28 12:08:56 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 28 09:28:19 2020.

Wcbs is not blocked, but since both WCBS and WINS are owned by the same company, their product is almost identical.

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(1541855)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 13:05:32 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 28 12:08:56 2020.

Yeah. I can't get it when I press play/listen button.

I get no audio.

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(1541858)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 13:26:28 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by JRR4 on Sat Mar 28 06:47:10 2020.

Yes. It seems planned.

Overwhelm with so many fires spreading FDNY NYPD and NYCT response thin.

Any subway arson reminds me of the token booth arsonist in the early 90s.

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(1541862)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Ble-nimx on Sat Mar 28 14:34:51 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 13:26:28 2020.

One thing that makes me very angry about this guy losing his life is in the fire department videos I only saw 2 or 3 street gratings venting smoke and I know a lot of queens boulevard had theirs sealed up to prevent flooding and keep residents quiet. Because he went into cardiac arrest 3 car lengths North of the train trying to escape that smoke presumes logic There was nowhere for that smoke and heat to go

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(1541863)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Mar 28 14:40:36 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 27 17:01:58 2020.

If the fires include one at 116th Street (Broadway or Lenox, it's unclear which is meant), that would rule out them being set by this train's undercarriage. Some (later?) stories do mention the 166th St. fire, some don't.

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(1541864)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Mar 28 14:51:08 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Mar 27 17:01:21 2020.

In the video below some hobbyist got down on the platform! I wonder how he got down there considering he was NOT an first responder.





And no, the guy who filmed this is not a railfan.

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(1541865)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Mar 28 14:53:18 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 28 11:56:28 2020.

I love catching the 8277 set cause its so much cleaner than the other 143s & 160s at ENY yard cause it was OOS for so long.

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(1541866)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 28 14:53:59 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Mar 28 14:51:08 2020.

He's a fire buff or off-duty fireman. On the longer version, he talks to a chief.

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(1541867)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 15:03:45 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 28 14:53:59 2020.

Yes. At some point they comment that they have yet to speak to anyone from Transit.

There is a noticeable lack of Transit presence. The time of day and probability TSS and superintendent first went to 86 and 96 fires and were dealing with that not realizing severity of on board fire.

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(1541868)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 15:05:33 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 28 11:56:28 2020.

Similar to 2755 which was wrecked leaving Coney Island on its maiden run. That car now lags the rest of the fleet by several hundred thousand total miles.

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(1541870)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by mrw on Sat Mar 28 15:41:46 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 28 14:53:59 2020.

nycfire.net has a rundown of the FDNY response. It also includes a mention of an emergency exit at Central Park West & West 107th but I think it might actually be this structure which is a bit further south at 104th.


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(1541871)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by mrw on Sat Mar 28 15:45:55 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 28 07:58:32 2020.

Station appears to have some significant damage as well...


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(1541872)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Mar 28 15:47:02 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Train Dude on Fri Mar 27 17:43:38 2020.

Flammable alcohol-based cleansers/sanitizers? (I don't know if they are being used or not.)

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(1541874)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 15:58:48 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Mar 28 15:47:02 2020.

Not during my time.

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(1541875)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 16:02:33 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Ble-nimx on Sat Mar 28 14:34:51 2020.

a lot of queens boulevard had theirs sealed up to prevent flooding

This location is 25 feet above sea level and dropping down gently to the lake in Central Park. Not an obvious flooding location.



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(1541876)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Peter Rosa on Sat Mar 28 16:07:40 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Mar 28 14:51:08 2020.

FDNYalerts is affiliated with the Department in some way.

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(1541877)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 28 16:32:40 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 28 07:58:32 2020.

Yes. But they didn’t teach me how to put out satellite fires.

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(1541879)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by murray1575 on Sat Mar 28 16:35:58 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by mrw on Sat Mar 28 15:45:55 2020.

How will they get that train out of there? It might have to be cut up on site.

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(1541880)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 28 17:06:51 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by murray1575 on Sat Mar 28 16:35:58 2020.

They'll have car equipment unlink the cars and take each car out with a diesel.

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(1541881)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 28 17:07:52 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by murray1575 on Sat Mar 28 16:35:58 2020.

I wonder if the whole train is a loss, or just 6347 (which I think was the 2nd car, which may mean the entire set 6346-50 is done).

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(1541882)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by GonzoUSN on Sat Mar 28 17:08:15 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Ble-nimx on Sat Mar 28 14:34:51 2020.

How many staircases does the station have to vent that smoke and heat?

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(1541892)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:11:06 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Ble-nimx on Sat Mar 28 14:34:51 2020.

only saw 2 or 3 street gratings venting smoke and I know a lot of queens boulevard had theirs sealed up to prevent flooding and keep residents quiet. Because he went into cardiac arrest 3 car lengths North of the train trying to escape that smoke presumes logic There was nowhere for that smoke and heat to go

Interesting observation. NYCT and others will probably reevaluate the sealed vents.

Queens Blvd has several areas that are on a grade causing streams of water to gush into the grating, especially the express tracks.

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(1541893)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:37:07 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by AlM on Sat Mar 28 16:02:33 2020.

The shape of the tunnel especially in that area could change the air flows. There is a suction in that stretch I can't explain but the T/O are familiar with it.

When two trains pass each other there(between 96 and 110) you feel a suction that has a vacuum effect on the front storm door and side doors. It definitely would affect smoke flows when this fire happened.

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(1541895)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 03:28:53 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:37:07 2020.

sounds like some remedialair handling work is in order. Another exam,ple of fixes which do not usually bring the highly shined shoes and custom suits to a ribbon cutting, but are critically important

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(1541896)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 03:47:37 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 03:28:53 2020.

it's kind of like going through a river tube. I guess similar to two L trains at 1st Ave, one entering one leaving tubes at same time. Suction.



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(1541897)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 29 03:48:09 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:37:07 2020.

There is a suction in that stretch

That would indicate a lack of vents. Note that the tracks run under the west edge of a Central Park lake, and then curve to run under a hill which is 100 feet higher than the topography at 110th Street, so a lack of vents is not surprising. I only questioned whether the lack of vents was due to flooding issues.




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(1541898)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by AlM on Sun Mar 29 03:50:59 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 29 03:28:53 2020.

remedial air handling work

Wouldn't be cheap or quick. Going south, first you're under a lake, then you're under a 100 foot high hill. And you'd have the huge permitting issues of doing construction work in Central Park.


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(1541901)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Mar 29 08:30:06 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Mar 28 11:56:28 2020.

Thanks Bill.

I was ill informed about the fate of #8277.

Bill Newkirk

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(1541903)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Mar 29 08:34:03 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 28 15:05:33 2020.

Similar to 2755 which was wrecked leaving Coney Island on its maiden run. That car now lags the rest of the fleet by several hundred thousand total miles.

I've seen #2755 well after returning from repair. Looking at the car body, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of car body repairs.

No replacement panels welded in place etc.

Could the damaged body have been deemed not repairable and and a new car body substituted in place ?

Bill Newkirk

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(1541904)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Mar 29 08:36:57 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by murray1575 on Sat Mar 28 16:35:58 2020.

How will they get that train out of there? It might have to be cut up on site.

If it was severe collision damage and unable to be towed, then a cut up on site would take place.

Bill Newkirk

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(1541908)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 29 09:39:52 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by AlM on Sun Mar 29 03:50:59 2020.

Back when that line was built, the mentality was, "OK, let's do it!"

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(1541925)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Mar 29 13:53:11 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:11:06 2020.

The more of those vents that are sealed to remedy the next 100 year storm will seal the fate on the next 100 year train fire. THE IND designed their system to incorporate emergency exits, now reversible river tube fans and plenty of vents. Apparently there is now lack of plenty

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(1541929)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Mar 29 14:46:48 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sat Mar 28 13:05:32 2020.

I’ve gotten Wfan in Europe on the radio.com app

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(1541946)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 29 16:50:19 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by BLE-NIMX on Sun Mar 29 13:53:11 2020.

I hadn’t heard that the vents were actually sealed, but that the ones along the Qns Blvd median were raised several inches to mitigate the possibility of flooding even though it might not prevent it entirely.

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(1541951)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 29 17:00:36 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by LuchAAA on Sun Mar 29 02:37:07 2020.

The vacuum effect that you are referring to exists between 145 St and Dyckman on the Bway Line as well as between 149/G/Conc and 149/3. It also existed to a lesser degree in the entire original IRT subway. Under the dual contracts the problem was addressed to some degree by constructing curtain walls between opposing directions of traffic and in the case of the 4 Av and Center St BMT subways, even between each track. According to a PSC report I have from circa 1915, the air in the “first subway” was stirred up but never completely removed with the passage of the trains resulting in excessive heat in the tunnels. By separating the opposing directions, it was felt that the trains going in their respective directions would cause a sort of piston effect forcing old air out ahead of the trains and allowing fresh air to enter behind them, something not possible with trains of both directions in a completely open underground space.

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(1541959)

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Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes)

Posted by VictorM on Sun Mar 29 17:19:40 2020, in response to Re: Northbound (2) train caught on fire @ 110 St station: 1 dead, 16 injured (Major service changes), posted by randyo on Sun Mar 29 16:50:19 2020.

That's right, and you can also see examples of this along Hillside Av in Jamaica:


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