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| (1536049) | |
IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020 The 145th st lower level has a fun feature:The center track doubles as a "peak time" express track, and a "off peak" terminal track. When B trains are terminating off-hours they open both sets of doors and sit for a few minutes. Riders frequently use this to cross from the uptown to the downtown Island platform. This is useful for people who are transferring between a Washington heights train and an opposite direction Bronx train (avoid extra stairs), and for people who want to exit the station using escalators (only available from the uptown island). I've come to suspect that this may be unique. Are there other stations where a commonly used passenger path is "through a train" ? I realize that this may be physically possible at a 3-track terminal like flushing or grand central shuttle (for now) but I'm not aware that it's common practice at to leave both sets of doors open in either of these cases, and it does not provide a route that is otherwise unavailable. I guess I am wondering if my "walk through the train" shortcut is unique to 145th or not. -Rob |
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| (1536050) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 11:48:09 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. On LIRR, it is known to happen that a train sitting in Jamaica with both doors open gets used to expedite passenger movement from one platform to another, for instance when a connection needs to occur between a train on track 3 and a train on track 1. The train on track 2 becomes a "bridge." And at least once I've heard the overhead announcement "Walk through the train on track 2" or words to that effect.I'm supposing such a configuration is beneficial when a Brooklyn-bound train arrives into track 3, and there are two Penn Station trains in the station, maybe one a direct express that might be preferable to the closer train. But I don't observe trains at Jamaica often enough to know the system for certain. |
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| (1536052) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Jan 20 11:49:56 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. I've occasionally seen it done on the W at Whitehall but I don't think it's standard practice.Not on the subway, but the LIRR at Jamaica is probably the best example of this in the NY area. Trains to Penn pull in on tracks 1 and 2, and a Brooklyn train on 3. Transfer between tracks 1 and 3 by walking through 2. I wonder if such 3-way meets are scheduled or if it's only a 2-way meet. |
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| (1536053) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by andy on Mon Jan 20 11:50:52 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 11:48:09 2020. At Jamaica on the LIRR, a three way connection may involve trains to or from Penn, Atlantic, and LI City. It also occurs in the PM Peak using tracks 6-7-8. |
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| (1536056) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by andy on Mon Jan 20 11:55:46 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by K. Trout on Mon Jan 20 11:49:56 2020. Years ago (1976-87), when the N provided the Queens Blvd./Forest Hills service to/from the BMT Broadway, there were about 6 rush hour trips that begsan or ended at Whitehall (most N service used the Manhattan Bridge south of Canal St.). When the N trips turned at Whitehall both sets of doors were routinely open till the train departed.Believe this was also the case when EE trains provided this service between 1967 and 1976. Except for a few short-turn Canal St. trips, the South terminal of the EE was Whitehall, all day (6am-8pm M F). |
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| (1536063) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 12:19:27 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by andy on Mon Jan 20 11:50:52 2020. When ESA opens will the Atlantic ave LIRR immediately convert to shuttle operation?It would be neat if there is some time when there's a 3-way meet between a train bound for GCT, Penn, and Atlantic. |
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| (1536064) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 12:22:55 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by andy on Mon Jan 20 11:55:46 2020. Ok Whitehall makes sense. Center track terminal in the middle of the R line. I would presume that there would not be a practical reason to "walk through the train" but you could do it.Whitehall is also neat in that it's a terminal in both directions. W during the daytime southbound, R late-night northbound. |
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| (1536066) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 12:25:44 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 12:19:27 2020. Or maybe even 4-way? LIC - GCT - Penn - Atlantic?In any case I would like if even after ESA that they keep some "throwback" specials of Atlantic trains sent on past Jamaica, even if only a little bit into Nassau County and only a couple a day. Like maybe a unique Williston Park (electrified) to Atlantic run. I tend to doubt it though. |
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Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Jan 20 12:26:31 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 11:48:09 2020. My general experience at Jamaica has been exactly that - a local and express at the same time. Usually if the Brooklyn train was on 3 it was a three-way meet, but if it was on 2 there generally wouldn't be a Penn train on 3. I usually rode reverse-peak, though, maybe peak service has more variations. |
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| (1536068) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Jan 20 12:27:02 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 12:19:27 2020. Some through trains to Brooklyn will remain, but the majority of service will be shuttles to the new platform. |
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| (1536074) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 20 14:40:19 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 12:19:27 2020. They do not plan to have any meets. Every train will simply come and then go, in both directions, except for Jamaica-based diesel trains. You make your own connections. |
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| (1536083) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jan 20 15:54:08 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. In between the time of the June 2010 service cuts and the Hurricane Sandy repair of the Montague Tunnel, the center track at Whitehall was used this way in AM rush hours- every time I went own there during that time, a train was laid up on the center track, with all doors open on both sides- this basically created a giant island platform, and made for safer egress from the R.Another time I observed this was in summer of 1975 when I was 7 years old, on the 7. It was a Saturday morning, and Mom and I needed to get from Flushing to Forest Hills. Out normal route was 7-local to 74th Street, and then E or F to 71-Continental. But this morning, there was track work on the local track Manhattan-bound, so we went express to 61 Street (I do not remember if we went express between Willets Point and Junction Blvd). I'd never been on the 7 express before, so this was cool. We switched back to the local just east of 61 Street, and a train was laid up on the center track, all doors open, so pax could double back Flushing bound without going downstairs and backup. Even at that young age, I figured out the reason for parking a train there. |
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| (1536094) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon Jan 20 16:25:53 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. Going back to the 1960s (maybe more recently), during middays on the 42nd St Shuttle when only two trains were operating on tracks 1 and 4, the train on track 3 was parked in Grand Central, and the doors in the second and third cars were left open on both sides for use as a bridge between the two platforms. |
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| (1536105) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 20 16:51:07 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. There are a few K/Hwy short turns on the F that use the middle to turn back and for a brief period overnight, the M Shuttle turns back in the middle at Bway/Myrtle so they probably keep the doors open on both sides for a few minutes. |
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Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jan 20 17:05:16 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 11:48:09 2020. Yes, it's very common at Jamaica. |
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Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Charles G on Mon Jan 20 17:14:59 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by K. Trout on Mon Jan 20 11:49:56 2020. There are many 3-way meets going eastbound at Jamaica -- Train from Brooklyn comes in on track 6, train from Penn comes in on track 7, diesel train originating at Jamaica on track 8. Passengers from Brooklyn who want the diesel are told to cross through the train on track 7. |
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| (1536131) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon Jan 20 20:04:33 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 11:48:09 2020. I seem to remember doing that at least once (waaayy back in the 70s). Coming from (then-Flatbush, now Atlantic Terminal) and doing the walk through to a Babylon train. |
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| (1536140) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 20 21:41:09 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 20 12:25:44 2020. To do a 4-way, they'd have to have two tracks that have platforms on both sides, like tracks 2 and 7. They don't have a platform between tracks 3 and 4 or between 5 and 6. |
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Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Jan 21 09:59:19 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. It sometimes happens at E. 180th St. I'm not sure whether or not it is standard practice to have doors on both sides open for a while when the Dyre Ave. shuttle is running. It has certainly happened, but there is not really any great advantage to walking through the train from one platform to the other. |
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| (1536166) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 10:43:20 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. The Culver Shuttle opened up the doors on both sides at 9th Avenue to facilitate transfers to both the northbound and southbound B trains. |
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| (1536180) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jan 21 17:23:28 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Dan on Tue Jan 21 10:43:20 2020. I forgot about that one. |
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Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Jan 22 01:42:49 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 20 14:40:19 2020. Will they increase off-peak service to Brooklyn from 30 min headway?They can have shorter 4 car trains run more frequently, and this way all cars platform at Atlantic. |
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| (1536300) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 22 18:26:02 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Jan 22 01:42:49 2020. LIRR does not want to run 4 car trains. They have not since the M-7's took over. There were very few 4 car cycles after the M-3's came in 1986. |
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| (1536307) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Jan 22 19:07:19 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 22 18:26:02 2020. If they're just going to run shuttles between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal then why bother with more cars, only tracks 1 and 2 allow more than the first 4 cars to open. |
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| (1536316) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 22 19:46:49 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Jan 22 19:07:19 2020. 3rd rail gapping. |
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| (1536335) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jan 22 21:12:48 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Jan 22 19:07:19 2020. They run 6 cars on the W. Hempstead shuttle from Valley Stream. I bet they only need 1 or 2 cars for it.But it's the same issue on that entire railroad. They have to be concerned with a 4 car train gapping. |
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| (1536363) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 01:31:03 2020, in response to IND 145th Street lower level, posted by ro_jo on Mon Jan 20 11:42:39 2020. I haven't read all the posts, but the northbound lower level platform is twice as wide as the southbound. Any reasons for this - provisions for the 2nd system etc.?Thanks for any info. |
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| (1536384) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 23 08:22:08 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jan 22 21:12:48 2020. When the entire service was M-1's, all West Hempstead trains were 4 cars, except for the 8 car NY train in the morning, and a 6 car Brooklyn train in the PM.When they got the M-3's, the only 4 car train left was an afternoon round trip to Hempstead, which became the 6:09 from Brooklyn to West Hempstead. It deadheads back after that run. With the M-7's, it was the end of 4 car trains. |
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| (1536418) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Jan 23 12:50:30 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 01:31:03 2020. It's for structural reasons. The upper level is 4 tracks wide and the supporting columns between its express tracks go straight down to the station's foundation. Therefore they had to offset the lower level middle track, and they decided to put it directly under the downtown express track. |
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| (1536431) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 14:09:41 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by VictorM on Thu Jan 23 12:50:30 2020. Thanks for the explanation. I always wondered about that. |
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| (1536437) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu Jan 23 14:56:00 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jan 22 21:12:48 2020. That actually happened at least once. A train gapped out at Valley Interlocking and had to be pulled out after blocking all four tracks for at least a half hour. That's why they have to run at least 6 cars on all West Hempstead trains even though most of the platforms on the branch can only platform 4 cars. |
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| (1536452) | |
Re: IND 145th Street lower level |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 23 17:54:02 2020, in response to Re: IND 145th Street lower level, posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 14:09:41 2020. I figured that one out for myself years ago. |
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