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Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019



Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1912 – The Book of Last Runs

Bronx, New York
New York, New Haven & Hartford Railroad Company

Service is discontinued on the Steamer Maryland Ferry between Port Morris in The Bronx and Exchange Place in Jersey City. The ferryboat MARYLAND (II) carried two trains a day each way. The vessel was converted to a barge in 1913.

Source: “Over & Back” (Fordham University Press /1990) by Mr. Brian J. Cudahy


Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1920 – The Book of Last Runs

Brooklyn, New York
Brooklyn Rapid Transit Company

The Canarsie Line is cut back from the Canarsie Pier to Rockaway Parkway. Service to the stations at Flatlands Avenue, Avenue L and the Canarsie Terminal will now be provided by trolley cars operating on the former rapid transit ROW.

Source: New York Division Bulletin /September 1998, article by Mr. Bernard Linder

Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1957 - The Book of Wrecks

Holtsville, New York
Long Island Railroad

A two car train of RDC’s collides with a loaded sand truck in Holtsville, New York.
The engineer, Mr. Patsy Molese, was fatally injured.

The lead car was RDC-1(all-coach) 3101. It was badly damaged and placed on the dead line in Corona on the remnant of the old Whitestone Branch. It was sold for scrap in December, 1971. The second car was RDC-2 3121 (combine). She was sold to the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad and later to the Maryland DOT. She was listed as “stored, unserviceable” in December, 1989.

Source: “Long Island Rail Road Power in Color” (Morning Sun Books / 2016), by Mr. Arthur J. Erdman

“Budd Car, The RDC Story” (Weekend Chief Publishing / 1990) by Mr. Chuck Crouse



Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1999 – The Book of First Runs

Brooklyn, New York
New York City Transit Authority
BMT Division

The Franklin Avenue Shuttle re-opens for service after being closed since July 1998 for reconstruction. The first train is run for the media with R-68’s 2921-2920. Regular service begins just after 10 AM with the above train and R-68’s 2922-2923.

Source: New York Division Bulletin /December 1999

Personal Note: Doug Diamond aka BMT Man was very interested in the re-building of the Franklin Avenue Shuttle. He provided us with frequent updates on the old Sub-Talk Bulletin Board.

Larry, RedbirdR33



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(1527184)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by zac on Fri Oct 18 09:44:38 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

And 20 years later those same cars are still the mainstay of the Franklin Shuttle, along with one other pair, 2919 and 2924. The sign boxes were removed and replaced with printed signs.

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(1527211)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 18 13:27:30 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

Are there any pre-Oct. 1920 photos of AB's operating beyond Rockaway Parkway to the Canarsie Pier which you or anyone else out there might have?

Also, has anyone saved/collected Doug Diamon's Sub-Talk posts on the Franklin Shuttle renovation and might possibly be able to re-post them here?
Thanks!

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(1527220)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 18 14:41:43 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

Thank you as always. I certainly remember the Franklin re-opening. This was a project delayed again and again, with repeated talk of just abandoning the line. I'm glad this got done.

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(1527240)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:34:12 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Express Rider on Fri Oct 18 13:27:30 2019.

Steels (ABs) never ran to the Canarsie pier since with the exception of the one or two that were photographed on the Sea Beach Line, they weren’t equipped with trolley poles and the line S/O E 105 St was trolley wire and not 3rd rail. Up till that time, 3rd rail ended at E105 St where the BUs changed from 3rd rail to overhead. 3rd rail was extended into Rock Pky station when that became the terminal.

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(1527241)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

I still maintain that the Fkln Shuttle should have been rebuilt in its entirety fo 600 ft trains with a 2 tk terminal at Fkln. That way in the event of any disruptions on the subway such as Manny B closures, an alternate Brighton Lcl service could be operated into Fkln to allow passengers to transfer to the IRT at E/Pky and the IND at Fkln.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 18 19:42:39 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by zac on Fri Oct 18 09:44:38 2019.

9 cars assigned.

2916-2924.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Oct 18 23:20:02 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Oct 18 19:42:39 2019.

I always wondered why the R-68 order was for a odd number of cars (425). I know originally they were singles, and I wonder if anyone at MTA thought that one day they might be unitized into 4-car sets (or 2-car in the case of the Franklin). So now, there's always an odd car out. Yes, it could serve as a spare, but still kinda weird. At least over in the A division, those are in 5-car sets, so the 325 car R-62 order doesn't have that issue.

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(1527276)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bzuck on Sat Oct 19 08:24:46 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Oct 18 23:20:02 2019.

The nine cars assigned to the Franklyn shuttle are singles, not two car linked sets. Normally four cars are in service on two trains and two cars are kept at Prospect Park as a spare train. The other three cars are at Coney Island for maintenance cycles.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Oct 19 16:01:30 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

I agree that would have been better. But given funding constraints, the alternative to the job that actually got done was abandonment.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Oct 19 16:05:32 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

Agreed.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 19 17:41:49 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

The rebuild has even less capacity than before hand.
They could still put in place provisions for expansion..

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Express Rider on Sat Oct 19 21:46:55 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:34:12 2019.

Thanks for clarifying.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Oct 20 00:27:17 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

I agree with you.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 10:56:51 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

At the very least, 150-foot platforms were a huge oversight. The 75-foot cars will eventually be retired, and either capacity will be limited with 2 60-foot cars, or money will need to be spent on extending platforms. 240 or 300 feet should have been the minimum, so a normal trainset could be cut in half to easily send something up there.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 12:10:32 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Fri Oct 18 16:37:45 2019.

They can transfer to the IRT at Atlantic, which already has a 2 track 600’ island platform.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 12:13:13 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 10:56:51 2019.

Why spend money on something that won’t be necessary for decades? They can spend the money on platform extensions when the R-68 are retired.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 12:43:01 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 12:13:13 2019.

Even going for 180 feet would have been immediately useful in 1999, since it would have allowed either 2 75-foot or 3 60-foot cars to be used.

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(1527394)

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 14:28:39 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 12:43:01 2019.

What 3 60’ cars? Would they have used the R-32S?

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 20 17:43:16 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 12:10:32 2019.

But a transfer farther back on the line would give passengers better opportunity for seats.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 18:48:52 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 20 17:43:16 2019.

LOL!

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 18:54:10 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 14:28:39 2019.

According to Joe Korman's car assignment list, in October 1999, R32s and R40 slants were assigned to the N, Q, and R, so presumably CI could have supplied or been assigned a few more for the shuttle.

My point is that 60' has been the standard car size for a long time and as such it's hard to understand (other than penny-pinching) why the TA didn't go for the additional 30' at a minimum. Just because R68s were in use at the time does not mean that 75' cars would be used forever.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 19:05:20 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 18:54:10 2019.

My point was that a 3 car train of 60’ cars was impossible and building for it was completely worthless, even if it literally cost pennies.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 20 19:26:35 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 18:54:10 2019.

R32/R30 are married pairs, therefore a 3 car train would be an impossibility.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 20 19:29:05 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 20 19:26:35 2019.

Correction: R32/R40.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Oct 20 19:41:24 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 12:10:32 2019.

They can transfer to the IRT at Atlantic, which already has a 2 track 600’ island platform.

IIRC, given Brooklyn's street grid and buses, I suspect the theory at play is that if the Brighton is screwed up, you either stay (or get on the bus) and ride to F at a Culver (or N to the Sea Beach) station or you make your way to the IRT on Nostrand.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Oct 20 19:45:07 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1957 - The Book of Wrecks

Holtsville, New York
Long Island Railroad

A two car train of RDC’s collides with a loaded sand truck in Holtsville, New York.
The engineer, Mr. Patsy Molese, was fatally injured.

The lead car was RDC-1(all-coach) 3101. It was badly damaged and placed on the dead line in Corona on the remnant of the old Whitestone Branch. It was sold for scrap in December, 1971. The second car was RDC-2 3121 (combine). She was sold to the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad and later to the Maryland DOT. She was listed as “stored, unserviceable” in December, 1989.
image host

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 20 23:28:45 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Oct 20 19:29:05 2019.

R-30s are also married pairs, for that matter.

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[PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 18 09:03:28 2019.

Tuscarora Almanac – October 18, 1999 – The Book of First Runs

Brooklyn, New York
New York City Transit Authority
BMT Division

The Franklin Avenue Shuttle re-opens for service after being closed since July 1998 for reconstruction. The first train is run for the media with R-68’s 2921-2920. Regular service begins just after 10 AM with the above train and R-68’s 2922-2923.

Franklin Ave Station (All Photos: October 18, 1999)
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Park Place Station
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Is the side of #2920 chrome plated ? LOL
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View South Towards Prospect Park Station
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View North Towards Franklin Ave. Station
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Prospect Park Station
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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 21 01:28:08 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.

very nice.

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 21 08:20:48 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.

Very nice- thanks for sharing. I remember this as well. For all the overhaul's inadequacies, I still think the only other choice offered was abandonment, so I'm glad it took place.

As for the very shiny R68 in Pic5 (also Pic 10), I'd guess the TA shined them up especially for the occasion. Yes, the cars were still quite new then (newer than R142/142As are today), but I don't think they'd have looked that good without help.

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 21 09:21:02 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.



Bill: I rode the Franklin Avenue Shuttle a few days after the re-opening, October 26, 1999. The consist of the two trains in operation were 2922-2923 and 2917-2921.

Thank you for posting these excellent pictures.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by zac on Mon Oct 21 09:37:14 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.

Now that there are restaurants along Franklin Ave I ride it fairly frequently and use both Park Pl and Botanic Gardens stations. And one time, only once, they were using the southbound platform at Prospect Park so we went through the S curve at 2mph, or so it seemed, in both directions. I sometimes also come from the other direction on the C, but not very often. I think the last time it was because an R32 came in at W4th and I realized I hadn't been on one in a very long time, RFW and all.

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 21 10:33:46 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.

For as many times as I have ridden that train, I have never left the platform at Franklyn Avenue to have a look around.

Maybe I should but that in my bucket should I get back to NYC again.

ROARUIONG

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 12:18:20 2019, in response to [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 21 00:17:35 2019.

Is that the original station building at Park Place?

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 21 13:53:56 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 18:54:10 2019.

Maybe in 1999, it wasn't firmly decided that 75' cars were not ideal. In fact, as those were the newest cars in the system, 75' may still have seemed the way of the future.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 21 16:07:35 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by K. Trout on Sun Oct 20 18:54:10 2019.

Right.
However, the 62/68/68a were complete cars with operators controls at both ends.
Single units.

The TA painted themselves in to a situation by unitizing all singles into four and five care sets...then ordering large numbers of cars with the same set up.

The problem could have been solved by designing cars with end bonnets with larger windows, storm doors And operator's cab.

The 211/262s will carry on the unitized trend... but with some cars articulated walk throughs.

The 68s can be a test bed for what European car builders have been doing for years.
Take old rolling stock,strip them down to the car shell, and rebuild them to New car status.. with all new components inside and out.
This isn't what the GOH program did with the older R units.
We saying use the BEST car shells to build New cars, including the R46,68 and 68a.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 21 20:12:31 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 21 13:53:56 2019.

Actually, up until the last minute, the R-179s were supposed to be 75 ft.

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(1527616)

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Oct 22 07:41:44 2019, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by 3-9 on Mon Oct 21 12:18:20 2019.

Is that the original station building at Park Place?
No, the original building was between the tracks at platform level.
The new building was constructed to closely resemble the entrance building on the Sea Beach line. (Photo: Oct. 17, 1981)

image host

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 22 07:45:29 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 21 20:12:31 2019.

That sounds familiar. And yes, it shows that building the Franklin to run with 3 75-footers was a totally awful decision. But I do agree with you and others that it should have been built for 600-ft trains, that just wasn't happening.

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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Oct 22 12:02:58 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 22 07:45:29 2019.

Lengthening the platforms at a future time is not a big deal. OTOH, building unnecessary long platforms and then blocking off the excess for decades is a total waste and creates an attractive nuisance.

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Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Oct 22 16:14:41 2019, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Tuscarora Almanac for October 18, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Oct 21 10:33:46 2019.

Eh.. you should have taken a walk around the neighborhood.
Nobody would have bothered you.
Especially today.

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