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| Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? (1507039) | |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Mar 17 13:10:26 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 01:28:18 2019. Well, after all, one of the vows Nuns take is the vow of poverty!That bus driver must have been Catholic. |
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| (1507241) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Mar 17 14:49:02 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Mar 17 13:10:26 2019. Nuns are hardly distinguishable today since few wear habits. |
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| (1507243) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 14:54:18 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 15 20:37:43 2019. Well, yeah. Both actions were necessary. For better or worse, the fares can't stay at the same level forever. We can have a lot of debate as to how much of the cost should be covered by the fare, what programs we should have for the disadvantaged, etc. But in the end, there has to be a fare, and increasing it will always be unpopular. I don't like increases myself.So some political method of taking the unpopular action had to be developed. As for Moses, while I don't loathe everything (just a lot) of what he did, (and the way he did it- ex: no transit or pedestrians on the Verrazano) , did need have his power reduced. So ultimately, creating NYCTA and MTA were, to me necessary actions. Have they run the system properly, or as well as could have been done? Obviously no. But their existence is the least-bad alternative...IMO |
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| (1507245) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 14:57:22 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Mar 15 20:02:43 2019. I also agree there's no way to make it profitable. Or completely insulated from politics and corruption. In my evaluation, which, like everyone else's, is affected by personal experience and bias, the current structure is the least-bad approach. |
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| (1507247) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 15:01:29 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 15 20:16:23 2019. Well, I agree. Of course no one foresaw inflation in the pre-WW1 because there had been virtually none in the US since the Civil War. In fact, the attempts to bring about a silver standard, as well as the 1896 campaign of William Jennings Bryan were based on a perceived need for a little inflation.But now we know better- there will always be some level of inflation, and at times, it can spike up. And the IRT/BMT bondholders were entitled to payment- they'd fronted money, after all. So while the nickel fare seemed like a good idea in 1910-ish, by 1925, everyone knew it needed to be raised. Yet, for nakedly political reasons, it couldn't be. |
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| (1507248) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 15:03:13 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 17:16:12 2019. Yes, I know that. |
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| (1507251) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:19:29 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Mar 17 14:49:02 2019. Too bad because it would be educational for Christians to see fellow believers in hejab.As to the driver I saw, maybe Irish, maybe not. H put his hand over the fare boxand asked the sisters to take their seats. |
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| (1507252) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:25:46 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 14:54:18 2019. actually both Estonia and Luxemburg are experimenting with farelass public transit. |
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| (1507253) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 15:36:05 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:25:46 2019. Yes, but those are different societies with different histories than ours. |
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| (1507255) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:48:41 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 15:36:05 2019. yes, and many societies would do well to learn from others. |
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| (1507262) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 17 16:35:30 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:25:46 2019. It could be done, but it is mostly inappropriate for NYC and udder USA cities. What is to prevent people from making their home in the subway, what is to prevent thugs, toughs, troublemakers off of the system.A fare needs to be paid to use the system. And in reality, that is a minimal fare such as we now have. |
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| (1507265) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 17:00:27 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 17 16:35:30 2019. Time to reread Jacob Riis. and Lincoln Steffens. The idea that the abject poor/menatlly challenged/ durg addled have to sleep rough in a supposedly rich first world nation is completely shameful.Some money speculaor named Griffin recently bought a NYC penthouse for over $100 million. I'msorry, given the homeless he should not even have that much disposable income, but clearly I am spouting the idealism of some Jewish man who was murdered fopr that sort of thinking. Rail content. Yes, in our currentstate of income disparity, many transit services are overburdened with "campers" who may or may not have paid a valid fare. |
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| (1507267) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Mar 17 17:19:47 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 17:00:27 2019. IDWTP |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 17 17:47:13 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Mar 17 16:35:30 2019. Amazing. |
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| (1507286) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Mar 17 19:36:48 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Mar 17 15:19:29 2019. First you need numbers. Very few Catholic women heed the call of a religeous vocation nowadays. My sister was a Nun (Dominican) from 1965-72. When she drove in her habit & went to a toll booth crossing the Whitestone Bridge, the toll taker would not take her money. She'd be waved right thru.She left right before final vows. When she was a "postulant" (new entrant)she was one of 52 other girls to enter the religous life. By 1973, all 52 left. |
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| (1507338) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 11:16:55 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 21:32:59 2019. Nycta was 1953. |
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| (1507339) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 11:22:09 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 17 15:36:05 2019. Mabstoa depends on it's fares for pensions. So a lot of legal work would be necessary. We still can't get rid of it even by maintaining fares. |
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| (1507344) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 11:36:40 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 16 11:17:41 2019. Of course congestion pricing advocates will hide that statistic. DOT causes much of the congestion with its own policies and also because of over development. The MTA doesn't help by running sardine trains at 11 PM on a Saturday night in Manhattan. People do not want to stand at that time of night. |
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| (1507345) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 11:38:15 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 21:32:59 2019. TBTA fell under MTA aegis immediately on founding in 1968. The purpose of establishing the MTA (more specifically expanding the mandate of the MCTA and renaming it) was to remove Robert Moses from power and to use the TBTA toll surplus to fund transit expansion. |
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| (1507346) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 11:39:26 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 16 14:08:23 2019. How could you support East River tolling and not congestion charging? I guess you're from Bronx/Westchester. |
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| (1507347) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 11:40:16 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 16 14:20:04 2019. Ignoring that, congestion charging is fairer as everyone using the streets pays, as opposed to giving people coming from the north a free ride. |
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| (1507351) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 18 11:59:59 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 11:40:16 2019. congestion charging is fairer as everyone using the streets pays, as opposed to giving people coming from the north a free ride.What's proposed is a cordon toll rather than congestion pricing. Not everyone using the streets pays. Those who are exempt are those who remain within the cordon. Examples are those who live within it and those entering via the Holland or Lincoln tunnels. |
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| (1507353) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 12:22:16 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 18 11:59:59 2019. entering via the Holland or Lincoln tunnels.Really? WTF? |
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| (1507356) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Mar 18 12:53:22 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 11:39:26 2019. Long Live the Third Avenue Bridge! |
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| (1507380) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 18 14:55:14 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 16 11:17:41 2019. and the gridlock is caused by? |
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| (1507397) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Mar 18 16:14:18 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 18 14:55:14 2019. Eye of the beholder.Mr. Wilhelm's fleet of armored Suburbans which he uses to travel from UES to Park Slope, those authentic working class haunts, for his morning (or afternoon) gym time a candidate.* * Yes I know that's only 3-6 vehicles and they help out by speeding and jumping lights. That makes them take up less spacetime, or something. |
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| (1507406) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 17:54:33 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Mar 16 23:06:35 2019. Old B of T rule books have from the 1940s specifically mentioned that members of the NYPD and FDNY ride free of charge upon display of their badges. |
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| (1507407) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 18:02:23 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Mar 16 17:25:02 2019. From what I understand, even though the MTA is the parent agency, the employees are employees of the constituent sub agencies like the TBTA, LIRR, M/N and NYCTA. The sub agencies have to remain in existence since they are all financed by separate bond issues. That would mean there should be little difficulty in separating the NYCTA from the MTA. A small problem might arise with SIR and MTA bus since they are separate entities under the MTA and not part of the NYCTA. |
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| (1507409) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 18:34:41 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 18:02:23 2019. If it's so easy, why can't the MTA completely get rid of MaBSTOA after over 50 years? Also the MTA took over the privately operated bus lines in 2004. Eleven years later, MTA Bus Company still can't share its depots with NYCT and vice versa. Look how much money they waste just by not operating the B100 out of Flatbush Depot which the route directly passes? Instead they have to send buses all the way to and from Spring Creek.It can't be easy to separate parts of the MTA. |
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| (1507410) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 18:36:45 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 18:02:23 2019. They're also sued separately. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Mar 18 18:58:16 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 18:02:23 2019. That is correct. As a former Metro North employee, paychecks & direct deposit paystubs were on Metro-North payroll stock & not MTA. The only thing that connected MN with the MTA on paper was that stupid looking Packman MTA logo. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 18 18:58:32 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 18 12:53:22 2019. LION would close the brooklyn-manhattan bridges to private cars, ;et them use the tunnels. Small trucks, taxis and beese only over the 'little bridges' |
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| (1507418) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 18 19:00:09 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 18:34:41 2019. why can't the MTA completely get rid of MaBSTOA after over 50 years? Also the MTA took over the privately operated bus lines in 2004. Eleven years later, MTA Bus Company still can't share its depots with NYCT and vice versa.Labor union representation and seniority lists are part of the difficulties. |
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| (1507428) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:21:57 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 11:16:55 2019. I know that. The issue was when the MTA took over NYCTA operations. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:26:45 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Mar 18 18:58:32 2019. Even with reduced traffic as a result of congestion pricing, the tunnels alone couldn’t handle it. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:37:23 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 18:34:41 2019. As I believe I alluded to, MABSTOA is and always was a direct NYCTA subsidiary so it’s employees are interchangeable whereas MTA Bus is a direct MTA subsidiary bypassing the NYCTA or its Had MTA Bus been made a subsidiary of NYCTA instead, it would be different. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:37:48 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 18 18:36:45 2019. That’s correct. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 23:35:58 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:37:23 2019. I don’t know what you mean that it’s employees are interchangeable. There are employees that have both NYCT email and MTABusCo email addresses so aren’t they also “interchangeable”?They couldn’t make MTABus a subsidiary of NYCTA because when MABSTOA was created as a subsidiary of NYCTA, the law said that no additional subsidiaries of NYCTA could ever be created. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 23:37:45 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Mar 18 18:58:16 2019. The only MTA employees are the ones who actually directly work for the MTA. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 00:07:54 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 23:35:58 2019. The law could be changed. Regardless, MTA Bus is not a subsidiary of NYCTA. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 00:32:03 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 18 23:35:58 2019. When MTA Bus was formed it included LI Bus, which wouldn't quite work if it was a subsidiary of NYCTA.Right now all of MTA Bus is within NYC, though. |
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| (1507469) | |
Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 00:52:53 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 00:32:03 2019. It never included LI Bus. LI Bus. LI Bus was the d/b/a of the Metropolitan Suburban Bus Authority. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 01:00:09 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 00:52:53 2019. Hmm, I stand corrected. Maybe they wanted MTA Bus to expand beyond the city borders more easily? |
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| (1507471) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 01:04:31 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 01:00:09 2019. What do you mean? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 01:08:11 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 01:04:31 2019. By attaching it directly to the MTA... there's not much upside to that arrangement, except for the MTA's area reaching beyond the 5 boros. |
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| (1507486) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 08:43:10 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 01:08:11 2019. They couldn’t attach it to anything else. Creating another subsidiary of the NYCTA would involve an act of the state legislature. The MTA can create subsidiary companies at will. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 19 09:21:50 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 19 01:08:11 2019. The only other bus service LIBus was thinking of taking over was Suffolk buses but that would be irrelevant to the point you are making since it wouldn’t be run by MTA Bus co anyway which was only formed to take over the privately operated companies. |
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Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 19 09:23:08 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 00:07:54 2019. Which apparently is not that easy to do which is why we still have the NYCTA and MaBSTOA. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 19 10:11:59 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 19 09:23:08 2019. Completely the opposite of your example. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Mar 19 10:24:13 2019, in response to Re: Should the city take back its buses and subways?, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 19:26:45 2019. GOOD. That is the idea. To keep the cars out of Manhattan. People will quickly figure out that transit is the way to go, and this without being a big bully and simply closing the city to automobiles, which is, if given his druthers, what the LION wopuld do.So no big brudder dictating what you cannot do, you get to figgr this out on your own. ROAR |
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