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| Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair (1469919) | |
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Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018 World's Fair RailroadAre there photos of the Horace Harding Blvd station mentioned in the article? |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 10:56:00 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. The outside of the station has a deco look. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by George Foelschow on Sun Mar 18 13:34:56 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 10:56:00 2018. I would call the station architecture "Art Moderne". Art Deco enjoyed its ascendant period in the 1920's and evolved into Art Moderne in the late thirties and into the forties. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by George Foelschow on Sun Mar 18 13:58:18 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. Persons interested in a more complete history of the subway to the World's Fair should consult Frederick A. Kramer's "Subway to the World's Fair" published in 1991 by Bells and Whistles of Westfield, New Jersey, 32 pages, softbound. It well illustrates both construction and operation. There is also a section with the competing IRT-BMT operation to the north of the fair. The fair itself had a subway exhibit complete with dioramas, a model railroad, and full scale subway signals. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by northshore on Sun Mar 18 14:25:00 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. During the 1939-40 World's Fair, Horace Harding Blvd was renamed World's Fair Blvd. for the portion that ran through the fairgrounds.BTW, Horace Harding, a businessman, was once president of the New Haven RR |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 18 14:26:16 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. Chalk up another act of institutional vandalism by Robert Moses. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Mar 18 15:00:49 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 18 14:26:16 2018. +0.5 |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 18 17:13:42 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by northshore on Sun Mar 18 14:25:00 2018. I rode through that section of Horace Hardinng blvd. that I can remember, once, in maybe 1955 or '56, in the family car (green Studebaker) returning to Bell Park Manor Terrace (Hillside & Springfield) from my mother's cousin who lived somewhere in Flushing.I remember it being very wide, and full of pot holes. Also, IIRC there was quite an incline in the road from just west of Fl. MeadOW Pk. into and through the section between the former fair grounds. |
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| (1469940) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 18 17:15:45 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. I posted recently in response to another WF rr. post, that films of this branch were taken by Everett White, an oldtime ERA member who passed on a long time ago.Does anyone know who he might have left his collection to, or who actually acquired it? |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sun Mar 18 17:50:17 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 18 17:15:45 2018. Ooooo...that would be incredible to see! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by northshore on Sun Mar 18 18:00:39 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 18 17:13:42 2018. Yes, The Long Island Expressway started construction through the fairgrounds right after this,about 1957 |
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| (1469950) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Mar 18 20:21:17 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sun Mar 18 17:50:17 2018. You're telling me! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 18 22:15:01 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. Thanks. Very interesting. It sees that they made every excuse to not make it a permanent branch of the IND and extend it to College Point and beyond. Now, there's no service there.Good going. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 18 23:49:58 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Mar 18 22:15:01 2018. That was all Moses, who was big on the auto.Of course, many of those roadways were needed, but there should have been a way to have BOTH the highway AND the rail line exist there. Today, that rail line would probably be thriving. Lots of anti-transit thinking and short-sightedness. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 19 00:51:56 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 18 23:49:58 2018. The city should have taken a lesson from Chicago and built highways with rapid transit in the medians. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:45:22 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by George Foelschow on Sun Mar 18 13:34:56 2018. There was also a mural or murals, painted IIRC on one, or both outside surfaces of the ramp. These are visible in Kramer's book. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:46:35 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by northshore on Sun Mar 18 18:00:39 2018. Thanks. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:49:53 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 18 17:15:45 2018. Yeah - the grail of subway movies!I spoke with now passed rail fan and former ERA member George Abere sometime years back at a Sunrise Trail meeting. He remembers riding it as a child. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:52:04 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 19 00:51:56 2018. And that was exactly what Robert Moses did't want and blocked - at least I think it was the LIE where he scuttled a plan to make the median rail accessible. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 04:16:09 2018, in response to Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by heypaul on Sun Mar 18 09:40:17 2018. re: first photo in the article - I took the exact same view, looking south from the 69th St. Jewel Ave. bridge during the mid 1990s. four wide lanes and traffic. All "Van Wycked" out. |
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| (1469978) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 05:08:06 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:49:53 2018. This will take a lot of patience if you want to view these, but on Youtube, there are plenty of 39-40 Worlds Fair home movies that have been uploaded.You'd have to sit through quite a number of these long flims to hopefully catch maybe a glimpse of the IND branch. I did that and I was lucky, very early on. A year or two back, I found a film on youtube, that featured two short (and I mean short - like 5 seconds or so) glimpses. They were both taken from up high in the Amusement area. IIRC from maps, there were two other aerial rides besides the parachute jump. One, is panarama view looking east from north to south - IND terminal visible for a couple of seconds. The second view continues the pan shot, more south - IND ROW is visible for several seconds or more, with a train heading northbound towards the terminal. (film is in color) |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 19 07:32:41 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 18 23:49:58 2018. Yep. No reason the subway could not have been run down the highway median. In the 1940s, there was plenty of room there to build such an arrangement. CTA, WMATA, and Denver-RTD all figured it out.. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Mar 19 08:27:17 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 18 23:49:58 2018. Moses also squelched ideas of having rapid transit on the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. |
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| (1469999) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Mar 19 13:13:34 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:52:04 2018. That and the original portion of the Van Wyck Expressway |
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| (1470022) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Mar 19 17:14:26 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 18 23:49:58 2018. And now we're at the point of just too many autos. Multiple cars owned by families rather than 1 or even 2. Parking impossible. In my neighborhood I am afraid to be out after 5PM, otherwise parking becomes a big issue. Wasn't like that 10 years ago. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 17:24:47 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Mar 19 17:14:26 2018. Yes, I who don't drive gladly host a neighbor's car (a musician often playing until 2A) in my driveway. My hope had been that zipcar and the like would teach people not to own/maintain/register/insure cars which sit parked for hal or more ofeach day. Humans are slow learners. |
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| (1470049) | |
Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Mar 19 21:56:38 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by northshore on Mon Mar 19 08:27:17 2018. Moses also squelched ideas of having rapid transit on the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge.I always understood that the grades would have been much too steep for rail transit without immensely long approaches. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 00:53:55 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 17:24:47 2018. The only reason I have a car at all is because I work as musician and have to have my equipment at the ready in case I get a last minute call for a gig which had happened quit often. I couldn’t rely on calling Zipcar at the last minute and having a car able to fit all my gear on short notice. Fortunately. I keep my car garaged and before that in an off street facility so that I don’t have to drive around for hours after a gig looking for a parking space. However. if other people who don’t have the same instant necessity were to give up their cars and use Zipcars it would be easier for me and the few other people who have an absolute necessity to own a car. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 01:05:52 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Mar 19 21:56:38 2018. That may be that case, but back in the late 1950s when I was in grade school, there was a slide show about the lower level of the GWB and the, as yet unnamed, Narrows bridge and both were supposed to have rapid transit. It’s unfortunate that Moses’ decline in power couldn’t have happened a few years earlier so they might have been able to design and locate the bridge for transit. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 01:52:54 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 01:05:52 2018. even better he should never have been born. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Mar 20 03:19:12 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 05:08:06 2018. groovy sleuthing, bud! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Mar 20 04:54:46 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 17:24:47 2018. sadly, it'll never happen "voluntarily". hell, i wish metropolitan area-scale slide walk systems had been built. 
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 14:01:28 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 01:52:54 2018. IAWTP! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 20 14:48:05 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 01:52:54 2018. He did a lot of bad which everyone complains about, but he did a hell of a lot of good also. I don't even want to think about where we would be without the Belt Parkway today. I can get out to Suffolk County in 45 minutes from Sheepshead Bay. Without it it would take two hours. Since there are virtually no other highways in Brooklyn other than the Belt and BQE, it also takes the same 45 minutes to go from Sheepshead Bay to Borough Park.And don't forget the city was trying for 14 years to build the Triborough before Moses entered the scene. He also built the Verrazano in five years. Today it would take 25 years to build. He also built 200 playgrounds in one year. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 20 18:32:25 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Mon Mar 19 03:49:53 2018. An even greater holy grail - an original IND World's Fair bulkhead destination sign. It's very easy to distinguish from the one used on the WF R-33s and R-36s, too. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Mar 20 21:45:51 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 20 18:32:25 2018. There was one of these bulkhead signs displayed awhile back, at one of the websites that sells those pieces of cut and framed destination signs. It was not for sale. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 21 18:56:04 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Tue Mar 20 21:45:51 2018. If I were to ever get my hands on one, it would go right into the curtain I have with most of the interim terminal stations. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 21 20:25:44 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 21 18:56:04 2018. yeah, that would be cool! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 21 21:08:07 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 21 20:25:44 2018. One other interim destination sign that I've only seen in photos is Queens-Roosevelt Av. This curtain that I have has Jamaica-169th St; Jamaica-Parsons Blvd; Queens-Kew Gardens; Jay St. Boro Hall; Brooklyn-Hoyt St; Fulton-Rockaway Av; Fulton-East NY and Wave Crest. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 21 23:18:55 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 21 21:08:07 2018. Shouldn’t your curtain also have “Court St-Boro Hall?” There is also documentation of a few As terminating at Utica Av when Rockaway Av was the terminal so there should be some rollsigns with that reading as well. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 05:34:55 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 01:52:54 2018. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 05:35:07 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 20 14:48:05 2018. Excellent post! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Mar 22 07:44:31 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 20 14:48:05 2018. 45 minutes from Sheepshead Bay to Suffolk County?! When is this, at 2:30 in the morning? Up until I retired, my last office was in Canarsie and it would sometimes take me about 2 hours and that's all Brooklyn driving with the stopped traffic on the Belt |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 07:50:54 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Mar 22 07:44:31 2018. Belt Pkwy can come to a standstill at any time of day, anywhere, for no apparent reason. The choke points tend to be the Draw Bridge and Pennsylvania Avenue.Then you have people in the right and center lane doing 40 MPH, hunched over the steering wheel with hands at 11 and 1 o-clock positions like on a driver training outing. I knew of people who took Atlantic Avenue west of the Conduit for a faster commute to lower Manhattan. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 22 15:46:53 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 21 21:08:07 2018. You have a very nice IND artifact! |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 22 19:34:15 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 21 23:18:55 2018. Yes, it has Court St.-Boro Hall. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 22 19:37:44 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 22 15:46:53 2018. Thank you!I acquired my first bulkhead destination sign, mechanism and all, at Cityana Gallery for $40.00 in 1978. It had the standard signs, but no interim stations. The odd part was, Coney Island was painted over!!! They had another sign with Queens-Kew Gardens in it, but it was incomplete and so I passed on it. I sold that curtain a few years ago, but kept the mechanism and now that near-complete curtain has taken its place. It's currently set to Fulton-Rockaway Av. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Mar 22 19:37:54 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 21 23:18:55 2018. I know that Fulton/Utica has a fifth track for turnbacks, east of the station, but I did not know that any "A" trains short-turned there. |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Mar 23 07:35:49 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Mar 22 19:37:54 2018. Yeah, there was a huge NY subway rollsign history book printed a few years ago that had the R-1/9's early versions for that short-turn service, and I seem to recall there was it for one listed as "Fulton-Utica Av."-William A. Padron ["Utica"] |
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Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:46:34 2018, in response to Re: Interesting Article on World's Fair Railroad to 1939 NY World's Fair, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Mar 22 19:37:54 2018. I would make sense since when the line first opened, the BMT’s Fulton St el was still carrying a substantial number of passengers so N/B ridership on the A line was considerably less than it is now so the trains needed to carry uptown passengers to lower Manhattan were not needed for return service. Those trains laid up in Bkln midday and were put in for N/B PM service. |
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