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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:19:06 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Dan on Tue Mar 13 12:00:07 2018.

The E/F got brand new R38/40; the tail end of the R42 order; R44/46.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:46:23 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Mar 13 07:33:35 2018.

Our biggest problem was doors. They would unlock but not open. Not necessarily trainline, usually just one car.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 13:16:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Dan on Tue Mar 13 11:50:30 2018.

They, as well as their R30 sisters, were victims of shoddy maintenance all their life. Didn't even last 30 years of continuous service.

Compared to the R16, they were cadillacs!

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by WayneJay on Tue Mar 13 13:48:15 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 13:16:33 2018.

Yeah, I always felt like the R-16s were barely chugging along.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Mar 13 14:29:56 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Dan on Tue Mar 13 11:50:30 2018.

Not only were the R27s not retired by early 1987 but they were alive and well operating on the A, C, J, L, M and S-Sixth Avenue Shuttle. They retired off the C Train in early 1989.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:17:02 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Mar 13 14:29:56 2018.

Operating on the lines you mentioned? Yes, I'll agree to that. Alive and well? not so much...

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:19:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:16:02 2018.

So something good did result from the Era of Deferred Maintenance!!


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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:24:44 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:16:02 2018.

Back in the autumn of last year, I seem to remember reading on here that the dark car problem was limited to the R42s. While I was in grade school in the 1970s and middle school in 1980, I didn't know the contract #s- but I did observe the different types.

And I remembered dark cars on almost all types- but of course, memory can be unreliable. I'm glad to learn that I was right- cars other than R42s had lighting trouble. I also found a video on YouTube from 1986 showing dark R32s or R38s.

Perhaps what caused the confusion was that the R42s had a specific issue that was limited to R42s. But there were dark cars all over the system.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 15:49:18 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:19:17 2018.

IND-eed!

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by WayneJay on Tue Mar 13 16:27:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:24:44 2018.

It definitely wasn't limited to the R42s, but you did see plenty of them that were dark. We were quite used to it on the D line as it units 4696-4806, and all 100 of the R40Ms. I seem to recall that dark car issue being more prominent on the IND/BMT than the IRT car classes.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 13 16:35:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by murray1575 on Tue Mar 13 09:12:13 2018.

I have no argument about the quality of the R-10s but itís too bad that they couldnít have been designed more like the R-15s with the round roof and cab door controls.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Mar 13 16:54:15 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 15:17:02 2018.

You know I thought about that "alive and well" just as soon as I hit the post button. LOL.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Mar 13 17:46:07 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by murray1575 on Tue Mar 13 09:12:13 2018.

I believe that the IRT R-12/14s were the last class to have the outboard cap & trigger door controls. However, AFAIK the R-10s were the last class to have the doors operated by air wheras the R-12/14s doors were electric

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Mar 13 19:00:23 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 13 16:35:57 2018.

Why would you want the round roof?

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 13 20:50:07 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Mar 13 19:00:23 2018.

The turtle back roof was already obsolete by the time the R-10s were designed, The round or R-15 style roof was what became state of the art for car design for many years and was even the basic design of the Zephyr and the green Hornet.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 13 20:51:40 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Mar 13 17:46:07 2018.

Correct. The last cars on the IND/BMT to have caps and triggers were the R-11s and they also had all electric doors.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Mar 13 22:02:04 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 13 20:50:07 2018.

Fair enough but I think that roof gave those cars a certain look that had lent to the great admiration they enjoy today.
All two of them left that is.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 13 22:44:31 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:46:23 2018.

Never rode a single car with all doors operating on any side. Always one or two leafs inoperative. I was on one which had some sort of electrical explosion at Knickerbocker Ave in October 1986.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 13 22:58:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Mar 13 02:19:16 2018.

Queens Blvd riders always felt entitled.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 13 22:59:01 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 13 07:14:29 2018.

Before 1986....cuz I don't remember it at all.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 23:24:56 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 13 22:44:31 2018.

Speaking of every door in the car.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Wed Mar 14 01:50:04 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:16:02 2018.

I remember the R-10s on the E and F. Doug Grotjahn took a pic of an E Queens-bound at Lex-53 with me at the front window in Aug 1980, just before I left NYC to go to grad school in Los Angeles. I willingly rode dark cars during the PM rush, thinking it felt a little less hot inside with the lights off.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Mar 14 06:41:36 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Wed Mar 14 01:50:04 2018.

I was a child back then- but as a teen or adult, I probably would also have gravitated towards the dark cars. I don't really like bright light, especially harsh white florescent or LED light.

Even though I might have personally been more comfortable on dark, they were still a bad thing- another symptom of a system unable to "get it together".

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Mar 14 06:42:12 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 15:49:18 2018.

+1

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Mar 14 06:45:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by WayneJay on Tue Mar 13 16:27:10 2018.

OK, so I guess the answer is that the R42s and R40Ms had some issue that made them particularly prone to failure of the lighting system. But for various reasons, dark cars could occur in any car class.

I'll take you word that it was less common on the IRT...

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Mar 14 07:18:50 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Wed Mar 14 01:50:04 2018.

I remember the R-10s on the E and F. Doug Grotjahn took a pic of an E Queens-bound at Lex-53 with me at the front window in Aug 1980

Line: IND Queens Boulevard Line...Location: Lexington Avenue-53rd Street... Route: E...Car: R-10 (American Car & Foundry, 1948) 3242
Photo by: Doug Grotjahn...Collection of: Joe Testagrose...Date: 8/11/1980...from nycsubway.org.



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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by WayneJay on Wed Mar 14 09:54:44 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Wed Mar 14 01:50:04 2018.

Agreed! On the D line, especially in the early 80s most didn't seem to avoid the dark cars. In the summer as the train entered the station we'd simply avoid the cars with open windows as those likely didn't have functioning A/C.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Dan on Wed Mar 14 11:18:27 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:19:06 2018.

True but until the 1967 D/F swap the 'D' Culver had the oldest equipment.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 14 15:33:52 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Mar 14 06:45:08 2018.

The R-40Ms had a slightly different lighting system from the 42s. The 40Ms like the regular 40s still had the old main light reversing system that had the main light circuit on a timer that reversed the polarity half hourly like the older SMEEs. When the polarity reverser didnít work, the tubes would darken at one end and any employee who noticed it was supposed to operate the main light reverser switch located in the #1 cab (if I recall). The R-42s had an alternator in the light circuit that converted the 600V DC to AC to operate the lights which is why the lights on the R-42s and later cars (as well as the GOHs) didnít go out over 3rd rail gaps.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by VictorM on Wed Mar 14 18:52:36 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 14 15:33:52 2018.

What kept the alternator running (so that it could supply AC to the lights) over 3rd rail gaps?

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:32:21 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 12 19:18:58 2018.

Ask Wayne aka Mr. Slant R-40 about the R-10 Fred ride he took in February 1981. He says it was one of the fastest runs he's ever been on. 3080 was the north motor and it went on a tear along the Hillside Ave. stretch.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:33:31 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:46:23 2018.

6321 was a frequent culprit. Its demise was chronicled in the NY Times. I still have the article, too.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:34:24 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by WayneJay on Tue Mar 13 13:48:15 2018.

Those three car classes took an absolute beating.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:35:06 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Mar 13 16:54:15 2018.

I remember them in the late 60s with their original olive drab. They ran pretty well then.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:37:46 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Mar 13 06:45:21 2018.

I always loved them. Rode on them many times up CPW on the Abbott for the thrill of it.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:43:02 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 12:19:06 2018.

IINM the R-38s were intended for the D, but wound up in Queens because of the Jamaica Yard crisis in August 1966.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:43:38 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Mar 13 15:49:18 2018.

Rim shot!

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Wed Mar 14 20:10:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:43:02 2018.

The ironic thing about it is that the R38s weren't officially assigned to the D until 15 years later in 1981. It barely lasted a year before being transferred to the A train.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by chicagomotorman on Thu Mar 15 10:25:56 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Mar 12 19:18:58 2018.

Nice!

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 15 16:34:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by VictorM on Wed Mar 14 18:52:36 2018.

Probably just stored energy.

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Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***

Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 15 16:38:16 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] ***R-10's On The (F) 1980 ***, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 14 19:43:02 2018.

Before the R-32s were actually, delivered, I had heard that they were supposed to be assigned to the IND Queens lines, but when they were delivered, they went straight to the BMT.

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