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| Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue (1465483) | |
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| (1466575) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 14:55:15 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 21 17:48:38 2018. Nah.... Upper level turns south to South Road.Lower level dead ends close to Merrick. |
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| (1466579) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 15:38:41 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 14:55:15 2018. That's what he said. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 15:39:28 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 22 14:25:57 2018. It became Sterns, then collapsed in the 1990's. |
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Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Feb 22 17:14:53 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 14:55:15 2018. Yep Upper level turns south for over a half a mile before hitting the bumper blocks.Lower Level goes about a train length due east. When YOu say Merrick, I assume you mean Merrick Blvd? Map courtesy of Mr Dougherty's book, "Tracks of the New York City Subway...2017 
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:19:01 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 14:44:02 2018. No. It was only the upper (IND) level that was supposed to be extended out. When I was in the schedule office in the 1970s, I saw the proposed plans and there was nothing for the lower level. |
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| (1466586) | |
Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:22:40 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by Express Rider on Thu Feb 22 11:54:01 2018. If there was ever a bellmouth in the area of Steinway St, either the B of T or the NYCTA did a good job of totally covering it up since when I worked Queens from my time as a M/M up until I was sent out there as a trainmaster I never saw ant trace of one. |
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| (1466587) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:29:06 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Feb 22 17:14:53 2018. I knew that the upper level started to turn south, but I didn’t know it went that far. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:30:22 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 15:39:28 2018. I believe that Gertz, Sterns were all part of the Macy conglomerate along with A & S. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 18:44:37 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:30:22 2018. Gimbels too. It was all Federated.Bambergers collapsed. Macys bought Marshall Feilds and wrecked it too. |
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| (1466592) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 19:01:19 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 18:44:37 2018. I wasn’t aware about Gimbles, but the others I was aware of. |
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| (1466593) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Thu Feb 22 19:28:12 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Feb 22 17:14:53 2018. Does anyone know what the original idea for the Southeastern Queens extension was?It looks as though they could have run the subway tracks straight down 160th Street, past 111th Ave, until they merged with the LIRR; or they could make a dogleg running from 160 Street right via South Rd, then left to the LIRR. |
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| (1466599) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 22 19:54:17 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Feb 17 22:31:19 2018. If you have an unlimited card, or don't mind paying a second fare. Nowadays you can also take the A or C from Hoyt to Jay St. for the R. |
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| (1466601) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 22 19:56:33 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 13:28:44 2018. Yep, we've got the Free Mallride. And they just reopened the new and improved Civic Center bus station. |
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| (1466603) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Feb 22 19:59:16 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 21 13:09:56 2018. It's not as if the business owners thought that the Archer Avenue subway would be an immediate replacement for the Jamaica El. Everyone knew that there would be a gap of several years between the El's closing and the subway's opening, though possibly not the 11 years that actually happened. |
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| (1466604) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 22 20:00:51 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 18 10:05:36 2018. Would people have paid a second fare to make the transfer if the GG went one more stop? Obviously, there was not any free transfer to the "competition" pre-unification. |
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| (1466605) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 20:00:56 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 21 17:48:38 2018. You misunderstood, and that's okay.I was saying the proposed Montauk branch route was planned to link to the Jamaica El.. And into the lower level. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 20:14:13 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:19:01 2018. Yeah, but I saw the official documents and diagrams.Two Phase program. BMT IND lines to Jamaica, phase 2 BMT Eastbound IND Southbound. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by northshore on Thu Feb 22 20:15:12 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 21 17:51:37 2018. By the 1960's most residents of Queens had cars. Parking in Jamaica was a headache and Jamaica Av was having crime problems. Queens shoppers were going to nearby Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream and Roosevelt Field in Carle Place. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 22 22:20:51 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 22 09:06:56 2018. Donald "Hara Kiri" Manus? |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 22 23:09:28 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Feb 21 13:09:56 2018. There were a lot of factors about the demise of downtown Jamaica. I remember long time residents of Ozone Park, South Jamaica and other areas were moving out of their neighborhoods. In the late 1960's and early 1970's, I went to St Johns and lived with my mother's family in Highland Park, a block off of Jamaica Ave. I commuted to school on the B-56 (now Q-56) bus or the Jamaca el. The business district no longer attracted shoppers to older stores like Gertz's and the newer Mays, on 170 St/Jamaica Ave. I would say that the final blow to the area was the economic stagnation under Jimmy Carter, in the late 1970's. One more thing, it took a LONG time to build that Archer Ave subway, which primarily benefits commuters on the LIRR. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Feb 22 23:19:56 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 19:01:19 2018. Gimbels is still around as a real estate company. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Feb 22 23:30:47 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Feb 22 23:19:56 2018. Similarly, Pergament Properties is still quite alive, Vornado closed Two Guys but is still around as a real estate company, and Sears spun off its real estate into Seritage. |
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| (1466621) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:14:34 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 20:14:13 2018. I don’t know what “official” documents you saw because the ones I saw when I was in the schedule office were as official as they get and they only showed the upper (IND) level extended. |
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| (1466625) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:43:04 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Thu Feb 22 19:28:12 2018. The plans I saw show the South Rd route. |
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| (1466627) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:54:19 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 22 20:00:51 2018. There probably wasn’t any free transfer planned between the IND and BMT at Bway/ENY but after unification it was included even though it didn’t actually open till after WWII. |
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| (1466628) | |
Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:55:38 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 22 20:00:56 2018. The only plans I ever saw never indicated the Jamaica el going to the Montauk Branch, only the IND. |
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| (1466630) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 07:29:24 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 22 23:09:28 2018. Jamaica would have fallen regardless of the El being there or not. It was in trouble long before the El was removed. Neighborhood fell right along their els too (south Bronx, Bushwick, etc), so to blame the removal of the el is wrong. Of course the removal of the elevated just further plunged the area into decline but it would have fallen all its own regardless |
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| (1466631) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 07:30:18 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Feb 22 23:19:56 2018. So is Pergament. The point? |
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| (1466632) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 07:31:41 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Feb 22 23:30:47 2018. LOL I just said the same thing about pergament |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 08:12:13 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 22 23:09:28 2018. I would say that the final blow to the area was the economic stagnation under Jimmy Carter, in the late 1970's. One more thing, it took a LONG time to build that Archer Ave subway, which primarily benefits commuters on the LIRR. Elkeeper: They ran the same load of malarkey in The Bronx when they wanted to tear down the Third Avenue El. Somehow, we were told that the removal of the el would usher in a "Golden Age" on Third Avenue. Of course what happened was exactly the opposite. The south Bronx only got worse, not better. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Proposed tracks to Queens from Midtown Manhattan |
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Posted by The Silence on Fri Feb 23 08:23:51 2018, in response to Re: Proposed tracks to Queens from Midtown Manhattan, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 21 12:53:00 2018. No, because it wasn’t built because of the terrible ground conditions when they went to see if it was feasible, which is why 63rd was built instead. |
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| (1466638) | |
Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 23 08:59:28 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 21 17:51:37 2018. Jamaica was already dying. Removing the El only sped it up and handicapped it's recovery. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 23 09:17:17 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 23 08:59:28 2018. That is correct. Jamaica would have fallen regardless. It was already far slipped by 1977. The el did speed it up, but it would have fallen regardless. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 23 09:53:15 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 22 23:09:28 2018. 1. too many people moved away from queens.2. originally. even people who moved to eastern queens or western nassau county still came into jamaica to shop. 3. ...however, as more people could afford their own cars, more suburban stores started opening to accommodate them. 4. etc. etc. i can still remember when going into jamaica was exciting; crowds along the avenue, busy stores and movie theaters and places to eat, with the cacophony of the el trains passing overhead and buses stopping on the corners. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Fri Feb 23 10:26:03 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 23 09:53:15 2018. People also resented paying NYC sales tax when they shopped. That is one reason Green Acres was built just beyond the city line, and for shoppers in eastern Queens, it was just as easy to drive there as to go to downtown Jamaica, and you had a more pleasant shopping experience as well. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Q4 on Fri Feb 23 11:41:30 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by ntrainride on Fri Feb 23 09:53:15 2018. When I was a kid, going to Jamaica Avenue with my older siblings was exciting, even though we lived closer the Green Acres (Green Acres, we went with our parents who drove, Jamaica Avenue was a bus ride with teenagers, at my age then, that was more exciting). By the time I was a teenager, the thrill had worn off considerably. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 11:52:20 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:22:40 2018. . |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 11:53:25 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:22:40 2018. . |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:15:47 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by Express Rider on Wed Feb 21 20:41:04 2018. LET ME CLEAR THIS UP.I POSTED MANY YEARS AGO THAT WHEN I WAS A NEW ERA MEMBER I READ AN OLD ERA BULLETIN THAT THE SECOND AVE CONNECTION WAS PARTIALLY BUILT IN QUEENS.AT EITHER 37TH OR 38TH AVE.IN ASTORIA A PARTIAL TUNNEL WAS CONSTRUCTED TO ROOSEVELT ISLAND AND NEVER COMPLETED BEYOUND THAT.THIS WAS THE EARLY `70`S WHEN I WAS A COP.I WENT TO ASTORIA AND WENT EXPLORIN`WHILE WALKING AROUND THIS AREA AN OLD TIME RESIDENT ASKED ME WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR,I TOLD HIM.HE RESPONDED THAT AS A KID HE REMEMBERED THE TUNNEL BEING BUILT. NOW WE FLASH FOWARD TO WHEN I WENT TO THE RANGE IN THE BASEMENT OF THE 6-9 PCT TO DO SOME TARGET PRACTICE.WHILE TALKIG TO ANOTHER COP ABOUT MY HOBBY OF TUNNEL EXPLORING THE RANGE OFFICER SAID THAT HE KNEW ABOUT SAID TUNNEL.HE SAID THAT THE NYPD USED THE ROOSEVELT ISLAND PORTION TO STORE AMMO.I HAVE EXPLORED THE ISLAND MANY TIMES AND SPOKE TO THE FIREMEN STATIONED THERE.NO ONE HAD HEARD OF THIS AMMO DUMP,SAME THING WHEN I SPOKE TO VARIOUS NYPD RANGE OFFICERS.METHINKS THE R/O IN THE 69 PCT.WAS A-PULLIN`MY LEG. I REMEMBER LAST YEARS POST ON THE EXT.ON STEINWAY ST.IIRC THE POSTER SAID IT WAS PAST THE STATION MANH.BOUND. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 23 12:19:28 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:15:47 2018. You do realize your post is not readable, don't you? |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:21:59 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:15:47 2018. CONTINUED FROM THE POST: HE STATED THAT YOU COULD SEE THE EXT,FROM THE CATWALK.MY GUESS IS THAT OVER THE YEARS BOTH POSTS GOT CONFUSED AND NOW THE EXT.IS A RANGE.THERE IS NO RANGE OR DOOR IN THE WALL THERE.I HAVE YET TO EXPLORE THIS AREA,IF I DO I WILL REPORT ON IT. |
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Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:28:22 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:55:38 2018. RANDY,YOU ARE CORRECT. |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:31:45 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 23 12:19:28 2018. UHHUH. |
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Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 23 12:38:57 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 12:28:22 2018. Ain't a big deal to me.Dont need confirmation.I stated what I saw, and read,and that is that. Whether you guys believe that...makes little difference to me. Just like the Broadway tunnel in Queens. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Feb 23 12:45:08 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Feb 23 09:17:17 2018. With the suspension of L service next year we will get to see the effects that reduced transit service will have on Williamsburgh. |
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| (1466673) | |
Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 13:00:43 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Feb 23 11:52:20 2018. Steve: I completely agree with you. Please type more posts like this one. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Feb 23 13:10:51 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by Peter Rosa on Fri Feb 23 12:45:08 2018. This is true but it's not permanent. But the M Train is going to be mobbed though |
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Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 23 13:11:54 2018, in response to Re: Tracks at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Feb 23 13:00:43 2018. "The Sounds Of Silence!" |
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Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 23 13:18:41 2018, in response to Re: Smith-9th Streets/4th Avenue, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:55:38 2018. Just because You didn't see it, doesn't matter.If you are truly interested, go to the Merrick Blvd Queens Public Library Media Room on the 2nd floor. It's across the street from the 165th St bus terminal. I've seen detailed drafts of the plans... It's All there. Funny... I could only find foot notes about Picking ave/76th St...though they did have other material dealing with routed connect to the Queens subway expansion plans... Including a Queens Parkway open cut route... Which eventually turned into the long island expressway. Go see for yourself. |
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Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 23 13:19:40 2018, in response to Re: Jamaica EL/Archer Subway, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 22 12:49:00 2018. Interesting. Wonder why buses wouldn't have the same effect? |
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