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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jan 1 17:39:55 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 1 14:11:04 2018.

Why vehicular traffic? Bring people to Hudson Yards 7 station, Pier 19, and WFC.

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(1460743)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 1 17:45:42 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 1 16:28:41 2018.

Non-traditional funding has not been ruled out, but it won't all come from that.

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(1460751)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 1 18:25:25 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 1 17:13:31 2018.

Amazing that after 53 years those R-32 workhorses are still chugging away and have survived later orders.

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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

(1460752)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 1 18:26:49 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 1 18:25:25 2018.

Only because of the car body, certainly not performance.

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(1460753)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Mon Jan 1 18:31:36 2018, in response to Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by DieselBusFan on Mon Jan 1 08:27:09 2018.

I wonder how they got government funding for the current Hudson River Rail tunnels? Hmmmm

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(1460754)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 18:33:02 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 1 18:26:49 2018.

which is to say, if upgraded as with their PATCO cousins they might make 75.

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(1460760)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 18:45:45 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by R2ChinaTown on Mon Jan 1 18:31:36 2018.

I'm not sure PRR got Fed money for the tubes. They did get some Depression era funding for some of the electrification projects.

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(1460761)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Mon Jan 1 19:15:11 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 18:45:45 2018.

No they certainly did not. PRR built it.

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(1460763)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 1 19:28:28 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 1 10:05:29 2018.

Dude... This is the problem with conservatives.
You use infrastructure on a daily basis, yet you feel you shouldn't have to pay for it.

Everybody pays, one way or another.
Everybody pays taxes... Everybody.
You and the like minded are no exception.

Nobody asked for the Interstate road system, but it serves as a means of transportation and connectivity. the same with subways, except we ask for them.

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(1460765)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:39:23 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 1 16:25:34 2018.

1. North Dakota doesn’t make our food. Get back to us when you move to Iowa, or the state that produces the most food by value, that old Republican stronghold, California.
2. Actually, this country would probably be better off with less food.

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(1460766)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 1 19:40:29 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 1 18:26:49 2018.

They have gone about 29 years since their GOH.
Their build date to their GOH was about 25 years.
They don't owe anybody anything.


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(1460768)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:41:11 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 17:09:04 2018.

The idea that a RR exec should be paid $84 million while there are homeless on the streets is disgusting

Why is it disgusting?

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(1460769)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:42:14 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by italianstallion on Mon Jan 1 12:49:20 2018.

Some people would actually disagree with that. [shudder]

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(1460770)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:45:53 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 1 16:18:38 2018.

I was going to post something else, but I agree. And I won’t respond to another post in this branch of the thread.

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(1460773)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 1 20:06:12 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by R2ChinaTown on Mon Jan 1 19:15:11 2018.

The government wanted the PRR to build a bridge from Hoboken, but force the PRR to allow other railroads to use it. Hence the tunnel getting built instead.

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(1460774)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 1 20:06:17 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 1 19:40:29 2018.

They've had SMS work done periodically however.

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(1460777)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Jan 1 20:38:46 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:39:23 2018.

True.

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(1460778)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Jan 1 20:40:10 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 1 16:41:24 2018.

LOL

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(1460786)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 1 22:16:39 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 1 17:13:31 2018.

Yup... The best of the best of the best!

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 2 01:26:28 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:41:11 2018.

I am at a loss to respond.

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(1460815)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:31:33 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 16:56:07 2018.

Sure, and if a tunnel fails, then what?

ROAR

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(1460818)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:34:43 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 1 17:09:11 2018.

That is ironic. They must have felt self-justified when they finally exchanged Forneys for third rail.

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(1460819)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:36:52 2018, in response to Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by DieselBusFan on Mon Jan 1 08:27:09 2018.

I am a pessimist but also a realist. If Christie had not cancelled the original project

It wasn't the "original project". The original project had NJT trains going to the lower level of GCT, and the projected costs were less than half of the last estimate of the stub terminal that was never going to get built anyway and also a third of the estimates for "Gateway". Thought you said you were a realist?

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(1460820)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:41:27 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 1 17:07:07 2018.

LIONS absolutely love to speak in absolutes, but ewe (he said sheepishly) ought to know that daplanofdalion is not all that IRON bound.

People do live south of 60th street, and yes, they need their cars. A page from Tokyo... They will have to proof that they own (or lease) an off street parking place before being licensed for that address.

Otherwise a CBD permit ought to cost perhaps $100/week or $50/day. If they can afford the parking, the permit will not put much of a dent in their style. Doctors, you say... I do not know of any doctor who needs to travel in that much of a rush. They have ambulances for that. There are many doctors in a hospital, they will stabilizze the patient until the specialist can arrive. And except in the muddle of the night, a taxi cab would be much faster (and cheaper).

You can propose any scenario you like against the plan of the LION, but all that will do is help the LION to refine the plan of him.

ROAR

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(1460822)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:51:19 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 17:09:04 2018.

money shuffling politicians, yes, them bad. Financial shuffling is meaningless. It is not your money, so it makes no difference.

MONEY is created by LABOR, not by Wall Street.

TAXES?? PLAN OF LION...

< $55,000 = 0%
< $250,000 = 15%
> $250,000 = 25%

NO DEDUCTIONS, EXEMPTIONS or LOOPHOLES of ANY SORT: Every one uses the SHORT FORM!

Corporate Taxes = 1% OF GROSS not net or profit. You touch the penny you pay a mil. Period. No deductions no exceptions and I do not give a rat's tail what your labor or your construction costs. The tax is on gross not net or profit.

Yes, Yes, the absolute LION knows that their are issues, but all that overseas money will pour back home when the tax threat is lifted.

Example = Rush Limbaugh. Him moved to FLORIDA so as not to pay NYC taxes.

ANYBODY can do that too, and any corporation can move across a border to MX or CA or elsewhere to get out from under US taxes. Burger King bought Tim Horton, then said that Tim Horton now owned Burger King and is a Canadian Corporation. I think that they have since moved to Mexico, but it seems that they did not take their sandwhiches with them.

GM building in Mexico... Wonder Why?

I *know* why.

ROAR

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(1460824)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:56:09 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:41:11 2018.

There will always me homeless on the street no matter how much I am paid.

Market forces determine who much an executive is paid and how much a hamburger costs.

RENT CONTROL to "help" the poor has destroyed housing for all but the rich.

Some say they want affordable housing. Well the cost of building a house does not care how much money you have. The same parts cost the same price wether you are rich or poor. Landlords cannot afford to give housing to the poor, and even when that was done (the projects) you can see just how dandy those dwellings are.

You get to pay more for nice secure digs.

ROAR

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(1460826)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:59:58 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:56:09 2018.

There will always be homeless on the street

I didn't see them in NYC when Giuliani was mayor.

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(1460828)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:00:26 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 1 17:45:42 2018.

Non-Traditional Funding???????


Bonds are the MOST TRADITIONAL sources of funding.

ROAR

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(1460830)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:04:25 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Edwards! on Mon Jan 1 19:28:28 2018.

YES, LION agrees!

Front yard of LION extends three miles to that fence over there, and then it extends to the county line, and then to the state line, and it DOES NOT END AT THE HUDSON RIVER.

I am happy to pay tax money to help NYC and north-east corridor infrastructure, but who am I? There are more worthy projects floating their way through congress than there are dollars to pay for it all.

End of story.

ROAR

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(1460832)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:07:05 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 1 19:39:23 2018.

We *are* an agricultural state, we do grow more corn and wheat than you can guess, and we also raise beef. Do you like to eat beef?

Oh yes, we are also #2 in oil production, we have wind power, coal power and what corn you don't eat we make into ethanol and ship it to california where they have lawmakers who think that it is a better fuel.

ROARIING

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(1460834)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:16:32 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:59:58 2018.

And then they came back with a LIBERAL mayor???

Speaks volumes.

ROAR

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 08:18:21 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:59:58 2018.

You would have had to visit NYC. They were there.


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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 08:33:53 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:07:05 2018.

we also raise beef

So do HI, CA, OR, WA, NV, NM, CO, MN, IL, NY, VT, NH, MD, DE, and ME.


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(1460840)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 08:33:58 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 2 01:26:28 2018.

Figures. You just consider it "immoral" as if it's part of a religion and have no rational reason for considering it wrong that an executive gets paid well while others are less fortunate.

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 08:42:00 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 08:33:53 2018.

Right. ND's food production is barely a blip.

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(1460845)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 08:45:33 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 08:42:00 2018.

Well, ND is 2% of the states and might easily be 5% of the food production. Meh.


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(1460846)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 2 09:02:33 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:07:05 2018.

Is all the corn used for eating ?
(not much of a red meat eater, and I prefer bison).

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(1460851)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 09:10:03 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 08:33:58 2018.

The less fortunate you will always have with you.

I for one do not WANT to work as hard as an executive or even a sub-manager.

And I have no need for their income either.

How does it hurt you that he earns 28 million. He already pays most of that in taxes as it is.

ROAR

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 2 09:11:11 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 2 07:59:58 2018.

Visibility or lack thereof does not correspond highly with their presence.
Guiliani was skilled at hiding them. Subsequent mayors were not.
I'll admit today's levels are at unacceptable levels, but I would not elect a Republican to expect an improvement in that situation.

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(1460853)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 09:11:23 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 2 09:02:33 2018.

Not enough fat on a bison. I'll stick with jucy FAT cows.


We can GROW any amount of food (or ethanol) that you are willing to PAY FOR.

ROAR

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(1460855)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 2 09:17:24 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 09:10:03 2018.

You think these people work hard. Hah, not the Fortune 100's I worked for.

Yammer on conference calls, look at "dashboard " graphs, and set up power-point presentations is all I see them do. They haven't the attention span for anything else. The rest of us run the company and do it better when they are not around and not interrupting us asking stupid questions.

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 09:45:54 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 09:11:23 2018.

So can lots of other states, and other countries for that matter. So the law of supply and demand governs what we pay for food, not what ND farmers choose to charge.




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(1460863)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Jan 2 09:51:19 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:51:19 2018.

"MONEY is created by LABOR, not by Wall Street."

Here I observe that the cat should be more curious ;-)

Money, or the value it serves as a marker for, is created not only by labor, not even primarily. The ancient world had plenty of labor, and the invention of money, but there was very little produced per capita and wealth was only in control/ownership of other people. Labor was cheap here a mere 100 years ago yet food was expensive. Most were lean because they could not afford to be fat.

Services, goods and desired things other than land are created by
Ideas, inspiration, observation and experimentation, then organization, risk taking, failure and recovery, and labor.
Labor is required to make the intangibles into stuff you can eat, but without the others you have gas but no car. Petroleum was known to ancient Babylon, but before Science, experimentation and risk-taking you could do a few simple things with the fuel. Its potential was unknown, unused, unimagined.

China 50 years ago had vast amounts of labor, and vast poverty. With their labor force and access to minerals (they border Russia, Afghanistan etc) they could have out-produced USA, but it is only after fertilizing the intangibles that China's labor is making the country rich.

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(1460867)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Joe V on Tue Jan 2 10:27:35 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 1 18:45:45 2018.

They also had to buy, bankroll, and capitalize the LIRR from 1900 and on to do anything.

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(1460868)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 10:33:16 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 08:45:33 2018.

2.2%

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(1460872)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by AlM on Tue Jan 2 10:54:11 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 2 10:33:16 2018.

Heh. 1.3 times NY in area and only producing 1.7 times as much food, even though NY has huge areas not available for agriculture.

Not impressive. :)


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(1460886)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by randyo on Tue Jan 2 14:00:07 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:41:27 2018.

The pub owners in Manhattan are reluctant to pay their musicians even the money they do for the gigs. Do you think they would be willing to pay the extra money a special permit would cost? They would probably just cancel the music putting a number of musicians out of work. As far as doctors being able to use a cab, have you ever tried to get a cab in NYC especially in the outer boroughs. I normally don’t disagree with you, but as far as whether an emergency patient can be sufficiently stabilized while waiting for a specialist to show up is a matter for someone with exhaustive medical knowledge which not even a paramedic would have!

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(1460887)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 2 14:12:00 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 08:04:25 2018.

"more worthy projects floating their way through congress than there are dollars to pay for it all."
because the grafters/kleptocrats aren't taxed enough while too much revenue is wasted on DOD toys. ESA is now hands down the most expensive tunnel project ever.

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(1460889)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond

Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 2 14:16:19 2018, in response to Predictions for 2018 and beyond, posted by DieselBusFan on Mon Jan 1 08:27:09 2018.

I think that technology will soon improve to the point where we will be able to determine what is behind The Cinder Block Wall without having to dig.

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(1460891)

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Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jan 2 14:17:34 2018, in response to Re: Predictions for 2018 and beyond : No new tunnel needed!, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Jan 2 07:31:33 2018.

Which is why we need at least 2 more North River tunnels. Despite all of the BMT diehard complaints about the IND being redundant we are very lucky to have such redundancy whenever there is a water main break, major wreck, signal outage or just plain a necessary maintenance window. (whis also why IMHO in mainline RRs two tracks are the minimum for proper operation of all but light use branch lines.

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