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| (1458201) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 07:36:03 2017 Tuscarora Almanac – December 14, 1956 – The Book of Last Runs New York City Transit Authority IRT Division AM rush hour operation of the No. 7 Flushing Super-Express is discontinued. Source: New York Division Bulletin /December 1964, article by Mr. Bernard Linder Tuscarora Almanac – December 14, 1969 – The Book of Last Runs Chicago, Illinois Chicago Transit Authority The Chicago Transit Authority discontinues service on the Route 81 – Lawrence Avenue trackless trolley line. Source: “Chicagoland Electrified Railroads”, (Morning Sun Books / 2014) by Mr. Kenneth C. Springirth Tuscarora Almanac - December 14, 1990 - The Book of Last Runs The Bronx, New York New York City Transit Authority – IND Division The last un-rebuilt R-30's ran on the “C” Concourse-8th Avenue-Fulton St Local today. The last southbound train left Bedford Park Boulevard at 5:40PM with cars (S) R-30 8412-8537 R-30 8442-8469 R-30 8426-8419 R-30 8472-8533 The last northbound train left from Euclid Avenue at 5:30PM. The consist was R-30 8450-8447 R-30 8479-8454 R-30 8434-8435 R-30 8535-8526 Source: New York Division Bulletin / May 1992 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Dec 14 07:45:29 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 07:36:03 2017. Thank you. Between those 2 trains, there appears to have been only 1 original pair of cars... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 14 08:00:28 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 07:36:03 2017. What's the deal with all the mismatched pairs? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Dec 14 08:22:22 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 07:36:03 2017. AM rush hour operation of the No. 7 Flushing Super-Express is discontinued.I never knew about this service. Would you know what stops it made and how long it lasted? Was it operated concurrently with regular express service? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 09:25:32 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 14 08:00:28 2017. From what I remembered, mostly all of the R27/30s were mismatched by the late '80s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 09:29:31 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 14 08:00:28 2017. What's the deal with all the mismatched pairs? That's was commonplace with the R-27's and 30's. The R-32's and R-38's tended to same with their lawful mates more or less. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 09:35:38 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Dec 14 08:22:22 2017. I never knew about this service. Would you know what stops it made and how long it lasted? Was it operated concurrently with regular express service? The No. 7 Super-Express ran between Main Street and Times Square. It ran non-stop between Willets Point and Queensboro Plaza. There were three or four trains in each rush hour and they ran in addition to the regular express. The AM super-express ran from March 12, 1953 to December 14, 1956. The PM super-express ran from September 8, 1953 to January 13, 1956. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by andy on Thu Dec 14 09:36:14 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Dec 14 08:22:22 2017. This service started in 1953 or 1954. Four specific trains in each peak direction ran non-stop between QB Plaza and Willets Point Blvd. skipping Woodside and Junction Blvd. The PM rush hour versions ended in January 1956; the AM trains ended in December 1956 as noted. It ran concurrent with the regular express trains. |
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| (1458213) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 10:05:38 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 09:25:32 2017. I seem to remember them mismatched as early as 1976, just before I moved to L. A. In the early 70s, they seemed to be matched properly, for the most part. I don't recall when they exactly became mismatched, I was temporarily living in Illinois from 1971-1974, coming to NYC only in the summers and some holidays. I think when I returned to NY (June 1974, they were still properly matched, but stopped being so some time after. As I have stated here before, I did not like the R-27/R-30s, so I didn't pay that much attention to them. I also don't recall if 27s were ever matched with 30s (I assume that they were physically able to do so). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bzuck on Thu Dec 14 11:38:10 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 09:29:31 2017. The R27/30 got divorced and than remarried. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 14 11:38:42 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 10:05:38 2017. The 27/30/30a were basically treated as one fleet, since for all practical purposes, they were the same cars, just different contract numbers.Grew up riding those cars..about as basic as a train can be...waxed nostalgic for the original color of drab dark green. I liked them... Just as much as I hated the R16...and man oh man did I hate those cars. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 12:58:23 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bzuck on Thu Dec 14 11:38:10 2017. Not really because they were never put back together numerically. Those few that were was a coincidence.Because of car shortages, and the R27/30's were linked by couplers but not drawbars, it was easy to match up any left over car whose mate needed major main shop work with another, as long as they wound up with odd-even. Why the same wasn't done with draw bar linked cars, irregardless that it was a longer job due to link bars, is curious to me. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 14 13:14:37 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by andy on Thu Dec 14 09:36:14 2017. I'll venture a guess that one big reason it stopped running is because too many Woodside & Junction Blvd passengers mistakenly boarded & would up at Willets Point. The equiptment used on the 7 at the time did not have PA systems.The super express service was revived during the 64-65 Worlds Fair. When the Fair ended, so the the service & hasn't run since |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bzuck on Thu Dec 14 13:19:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 12:58:23 2017. Bill - You took me too seriously, I meant it as a joke. They were properly paired when new, but later in life they switched mates. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 14 13:22:55 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 09:29:31 2017. I didn't realize they were joined by couplers and not link bars. Now the mixing makes sense. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Dec 14 15:21:17 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 14 13:14:37 2017. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Thu Dec 14 15:31:12 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 09:35:38 2017. This train also ran for some time in the 1960's after the World's Fair ended. It filled in the midday time from about 9:30-noon (westbound) and noon-3 PM (eastbound). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 14 16:11:25 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 12:58:23 2017. I thought R30's still had the drawbars, but the R27's didn't. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 16:27:32 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by murray1575 on Thu Dec 14 15:31:12 2017. This train also ran for some time in the 1960's after the World's Fair ended. It filled in the midday time from about 9:30-noon (westbound) and noon-3 PM (eastbound). The successor service began on October 18, 1965. It ran between Main Street and Times Square stopping at Willets Point, Queensboro Plaza, Grand Central and Fifth Avenue. Sometime around December 1966 these trains began making regular stops. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 16:46:32 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 14 11:38:42 2017. Well I guess I'm in trouble because I was the opposite-not that I hated the R27/30s, just liked the R16s more. It was definitely the seating arrangement of the R16s that won me over. Plus they seemed pretty fast on the Jamaica El.I know for this board that's a very unpopular opinion. LOL. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by zac on Thu Dec 14 17:31:14 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 14 13:14:37 2017. There were lighted signs at the station that read Local on top and then Super Exp on the bottom. The Super and Exp were separately lighted and could show regular express or super express. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:37:24 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 16:46:32 2017. I also used to like the R-16s until I had to operate them when I was a M/M. Worst piece of junk on the NYCTS. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:39:51 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 10:05:38 2017. The BMT did a better job of keeping the R-27s and 30s matched than the IRT did with the R-26s and 28s. I saw many mismatched pair on the IRT when the cars were new and even saw a single R-26 car mixed in a train of R-17 on the Lex Lcl. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:42:58 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 14 16:11:25 2017. As built, the R-30s had couplers like the R-27s and I don’t believe they were ever changed at GOH unlike the IRT's R-26s and 28s which did have their #2 end couplers replaced by drawbars. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:45:59 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by zac on Thu Dec 14 17:31:14 2017. I recall seing those signs on the Flushing Line and if you were standing on the opposite side of the sign it read “EXP SUP." |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 14 19:09:59 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 16:46:32 2017. I liked the seating arrangement, and the round windows on the end doors. THAT'S IT. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 14 19:49:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:39:51 2017. Those cars had couplers at their blind ends, so it was probably a simple matter of mate-swapping. They came to be known as Protestant couples while the R-29s and R-32s and up had drawbars and came to be known as Catholic couples.:) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 14 19:49:59 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:42:58 2017. You could say the R-26s and R-28s converted to Catholicism.:) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 14 19:53:26 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 16:27:32 2017. Larry, with all due respect, that is incorrect. I lived in Woodside in 1965 & all expresses stopped in Woodside after the Fair closed.However, Woodside was bypassed & made into a Local Stop as an experement back in the late 80s resulting in jammed locals both in and out. I remember going to work one day with an express fly thru the station to the point that the last truck on the last R-36 car was shimming back & forth (hunting?) as the train passed thru. Luckily for the MM, no supervision was around or else the MM might have earned an unpaid vacation. The locals, LIRR passengers & area politicians screamed like hell to the MTA to get Flushing line express trains to resume stopping at Woodside. The experement was ended & Woodside returned to being an express stop. One memorable time when the MTA listened to complaints, very loud complaints and reversed a bad decision. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 14 20:43:39 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by andy on Thu Dec 14 09:36:14 2017. In the 1950s in the PM rush, when a super express ran, they put two locals ahead of it, followed by a regular express behind it, then alternate locals and expresses until the next super express. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 21:42:56 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:37:24 2017. The R16's were fun for me as a c/r because they were the only cars in the B Division to have handles instead of buttons in the cab.As a train operator few had halfway decent padding, if at all, on the MM seat, plus there was a protruding section on the brake apparatus, which got in the way of my right knee. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Thu Dec 14 22:02:19 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 12:58:23 2017. I remember seeing an R26 deuce pair made up in 239 with E/E cars buried in the conductors position and surrounded by singles before the M.K. jobs commenced. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Thu Dec 14 22:33:47 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:37:24 2017. LOL. Ah, the difference between a train buff and a train operator. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Dec 14 22:56:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 14 08:00:28 2017. Anything that ran got mated. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 23:03:37 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:39:51 2017. There's a pic on nycsubway.org of a 26 coupled to a different series car. Kinda strange.Concerning the 26/28s, the GE ones that worked the 2/4/5 were always mismatched back in the day (60s/70s), but the WH ones assigned to the 6 were almost matched correctly (at least that I saw). After GOH, I think they were all matched properly (assigned mostly to the 5). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 23:19:04 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 14 19:53:26 2017. Larry, with all due respect, that is incorrect. I lived in Woodside in 1965 & all expresses stopped in Woodside after the Fair closed. Jimmy: The regular expresses did stop at Woodside. The midday trains were marketed as "Shoppers Special" and between Willets Point and Grand Central they stopped only at Queensboro Plaza. These trains left from Main Street 9:47 Am to 12:47 PM. They left from Times Square from 12:53 PM to 2:53 PM. Source: New York Division Bulletin December 1965 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Dec 15 07:04:12 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:37:24 2017. Total crap, right from Day 1, huh? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Dec 15 08:31:44 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 16:27:32 2017. There was also a brief period in 1989-90, after the Queens Blvd viaduct work was done where they tried to have all express service bypass Woodside. Terrible idea. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 16:08:22 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 21:42:56 2017. All ME-42 and ME-42A brake valves which were on all SMEEs from the R-10s through the R-22s, had that protruding section which was the electric self lapping portion of the brake valve. WABCO corrected it with the ME-42B brake valve as found on all subsequent SMEES from the R-26 through the R-32. Starting with the R-38, NYCT equipment had ME-43 brake valves and an RT-2 brake package which was WABCO’s “improved” version of the SMEE which were almost identical to the ME-42B but were designed to be installed in a console rather than be free standing although when the R-32s and the IRT redbirds were GOHed, the ones with WABCO brake valves were retrofitted with the ME-43 modified with a snow brake position. The reason for the snow brake position was that during GOH the steel brake shoes which were standard on most NYCT cars were replaced by composition brake shoes. During snowy whether it was found that the friction of composition shoes was lessened by even the smallest amount of snow that found its way to the brake apparatus. The snow brake allowed just enough brake cylinder pressure to be applies so that the brake shoes would be constantly in contact with the wheels preventing snow from finding its way there. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 16:10:01 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 14 21:42:56 2017. As a C/R, I also liked the R-16s because of their “faucet handle” door controls over the buttons found on most other BMT equipment at the time. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 16:13:04 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 14 19:49:59 2017. Amen! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 16:35:30 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 23:03:37 2017. When I saw the single R-26 on the Pelham Line it was very early 1960s and the URT had not yet begun assign ing cars by electric manufacture. Pelham was the first to get the married pairs, the R-26s and 28s and these were used to lengthen train consists from 8 to 10 cars although that came later. Pelham initially retained the R-17s for the car service increase. The Bway lcl had all the R-21s and the first group of the R-22s with the rest of the R-22s going to the 7 Av Exp and weekend service on the Lex/Wh Pl Rd Exp. The Lex Av exp was the last to get the SMEES since 10 car R types couldn’t be used there till platforms were extended to hold a complete 10 car train. With the Lo-Vs the end vestibule doors were always past the ends of the platforms but on the R-types all doors had to be on the platform. 7 Av had its platforms lengthened last since west side passenger loading was less than east side loading which allowed 7 Av expresses to operate in 9 car consists. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Dec 15 19:16:27 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 17:37:24 2017. One class of SMEE cars that did not make the 35yr lifespan threshold. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Dec 16 17:35:46 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 14 23:19:04 2017. That was really cutting things close. The first Flushing-bound super-express would have arrived at Queensboro Plaza barely a minute after the last Manhattan-bound one. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Dec 16 18:30:50 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Dec 16 17:35:46 2017. Dan: They had some pretty good dispatchers on the Flushing Line in those days. You should have seen how they handled the World's Fair traffic. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 16 22:48:50 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Dec 16 18:30:50 2017. The good old days when the dispatchers ran the railroad, were allowed to make decisions and told the train master what they did.Today they have to ask the superintendent first. I hope this new president Byford scraps all those bureaucratic changes Gunn made. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Dec 17 00:04:37 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Dec 14 23:03:37 2017. The R-26/28s were joined by drawbars during GOH; hence the "conversion to Catholicism." |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 17 16:47:54 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Dec 16 22:48:50 2017. IAWTP. I would like to see all those line supts and go back to the zone trainmaster setup they had prior to Gunn/Kiley. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Dec 17 20:10:54 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 17 16:47:54 2017. Frank Corrall would be smiling, I'm sure.:) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 00:08:39 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for December 14, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 17 16:47:54 2017. I think I missed a few words. I meant to say I would like to see all those line supts done away with. |
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