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| (1428309) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 05:13:09 2017 Tuscarora Almanac – February 23, 1960 – The Book of First Runs New York City Transit Authority BMT Division No. 10 Myrtle Avenue – Chambers Street Express trains begin stopping at Marcy Avenue. Source: New York Division Bulletin / August 1966, article by Mr. Bernard Linder Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 23 15:14:58 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 05:13:09 2017. I don't quite understand this notice but thanks for posting. |
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| (1428327) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 23 15:27:24 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 23 15:14:58 2017. What notice? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:31:49 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 05:13:09 2017. I always wondered why it was never called Myrtle-Nassau Line or Express. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:52:46 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 23 15:14:58 2017. Notice? Before this date, the Myrtle Ave Expresses skipped Marcy Ave. The route had evolved from the original 1918 Myrtle Ave Express, which made no stops between Bowery and Central Ave. That's right, it skipped B'way-Myrtle, too! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 16:31:24 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:31:49 2017. I always wondered why it was never called Myrtle-Nassau Line or Express. The Myrtle-Chambers Street Line began running in 1914. At that time there was no Nassau Street Line. The line between Essex Street and Chambers Street was known as the Centre Street Line. The Nassau Street Line itself did not open until 1931 but the Southern Division trains did not venture north of Chambers Street in revenue service. It must have been in the early 60's when the TA decided to refer to the entire line between Essex Street and Chambers Street as the Nassau Street Line. This is borne out by the rollsigns on the R-27. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Feb 23 16:41:48 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:52:46 2017. If the Canarsie Line had been built elevated, as originally proposed, perhaps there would be trains to skip Central and Knickerbocker, too! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 23 23:05:43 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:52:46 2017. Notice?Yes. Glad it is being posted. I never knew this. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 24 15:55:31 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Feb 23 16:41:48 2017. Here's another tidbit. Due to a steel subway car shortage in 1918, some of those Myrtle Ave Expresses were gate car trains, too! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 24 16:24:32 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:31:49 2017. Guess that makes sense, Larry. Before the MTA takeover, the Eastern Division still used numbered routes, while the Southern used lettered ones. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 24 17:37:28 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 16:31:24 2017. This is borne out by the rollsigns on the R-27.And beyond that...I remember in the 70s seeing side roll signs on R-7-9 & R-16 trains that ran from 168 St that would be signed QJ, later J that would simply say "Via Nassau St." No mention of Jamaica, Jamaica Ave or Broadway. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 24 17:54:42 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 24 16:24:32 2017. Letter markings first appeared on the Southern Division with the introduction of the R-27s in 1960. The Triplexes retained their number curtains until they were pulled from service. The R-16s on the Three Stooges Division retained their original number curtains until 1967, and even after that many of them still had their route curtains after they'd received those multicolored route curtains that were installed in the destination slot. Technically all BMT number markings were dropped when the Chrystie St. connection opened. |
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| (1428412) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 24 17:55:46 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 05:13:09 2017. Was it then that the wye switch west of Marcy Ave. was removed? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Feb 24 19:53:33 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Feb 23 15:52:46 2017. Wow, the trains skipped Essex St too? That's crazy! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 24 19:56:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 24 17:54:42 2017. Could there have been any R-16's or 27's that retained the numbered routes on number curtains through mid or late 68?I have two, maybe three black & white photos I took probably during June or early July 1968, during the afternoon rush* of Eastbound (southbound?) trains on the Willy B. - there were numbers on the front left curtain, next to the destination curtain. *so I could photgraph the Standards on the Myrtle-Chambers exp. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Feb 25 09:52:14 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 24 17:55:46 2017. Was it then that the wye switch west of Marcy Ave. was removed? Steve: February 1960 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1428467) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 25 14:30:15 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 24 19:56:05 2017. Maybe there were a few R-16 trainsets still out there. They were starting to transfer R-7/9s to the Three Stooges Division in May or June; there are photos of R-7/9 JJ trains with "JJ" pasted over the front route slot. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 25 16:44:54 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Feb 25 09:52:14 2017. Too bad it wasn't left in. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:09:48 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 24 17:37:28 2017. The absence of the branch lines for both the Southern and Eastern Divisions was due to the Manhattan centric attitudes in the TA at the time. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:11:00 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 24 19:56:05 2017. The R-27s never had numbers on their roll signs. |
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| (1428495) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:12:55 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Feb 24 16:24:32 2017. Actually, since Chrystie went into effect prior to the MTA takeover, both BMT Eastern and Southern started using letters from that point. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:15:20 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 25 16:44:54 2017. Probably due to the TA’s plan to eventually do away with Marcy tower and have the interlocking controlled from a master tower, the switches were moved from west of Marcy to east of Marcy so that a route selector could be installed to identify trains that a Tw/M couldn’t actually see. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 25 23:43:50 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 25 14:30:15 2017. That sounds familiar - IIRC I might have one b & w photo of pasted on JJ sign, probably taken the same afternoon. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 25 23:45:49 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:11:00 2017. I stand corrected - should have remembered that. Thanks. |
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| (1428528) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 26 11:12:26 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 25 23:43:50 2017. The only JJ I ever rode on was an R-27/30 consist in March of 1968. |
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| (1428529) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 26 11:15:29 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Express Rider on Sat Feb 25 23:45:49 2017. They did have both "Broadway" and the old BMT title on their side route signs. The N was the Broadway-Sea Beach Express; the Q was the Broadway-Brighton Express; the QB was the Broadway-Brighton Local via Bridge, etc. I remember seeing a Broadway-4th Ave. Local side sign on an RR. |
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| (1428544) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 15:01:00 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:15:20 2017. larry, are you sure it was 1960 and not around 1966/67? Coming off the WillyB, I seem to remember #15 Jamaica-bound expresses running on the center track through Marcy Ave. I knew that the old Myrtle Ave expresses stopped at Marcy Ave, before using the express track to/from B'way-Myrtle. |
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| (1428550) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 26 15:45:45 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 15:01:00 2017. Elkeepr: I remember riding the el in 1964 and 65 when I was just getting into railfanning. The bumping block was already in place on the center track at the west end of Marcy Avenue. All the expresses had to use the local tracks going through the station. No. 15 expresses did not stop there but No. 10 expresses did. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 08:10:49 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Feb 25 14:30:15 2017. This transfer started in May or June of '68- right? (meaning not in '67, anticipating the Chrystie opening..) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 13:48:51 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Feb 26 15:45:45 2017. The 1972 Vignelli map indicates the same service pattern- the M stopped there, even when running in peak-direction express service, while the QJ did not. |
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| (1428636) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 27 16:27:44 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 26 11:12:26 2017. The way the routing went immediately after Chrystie, was that when the QJs did not run through to BBC, late PMs, midnight and weekend trains operating between Jamaica and Broad St were signed JJ which was the designation used by the rush hour Bway Bkln lcls operating between Jamaica, E/Pky or Canarsie and Canal St. After July 1968, the JJ designation was dropped completely and the Bway Bkln lcls were designated KK and all Jamaica service was designated QJ whether it ran through to the Brighton Line or terminated at Broad St. |
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| (1428637) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 27 16:29:33 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 26 11:15:29 2017. Which was silly, since there were Brighton and4 Ave exps that operated into Nassau St and PM 4 Av lcls operating from Nassau St. |
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| (1428667) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 27 20:26:23 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 27 16:27:44 2017. The late 1967 map showed the JJ, RJ and QJ. Not to mention the NX. |
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| (1428670) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 27 20:28:44 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 08:10:49 2017. I believe so. Apparently the connection from Houston St. to Delancey St. was ready, but because the new 57th St. station at 6th Ave. wasn't, the official opening for both was pushed back to July 1, 1968. I was actually in the city that day, too! |
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| (1428677) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 28 08:37:33 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 16:31:24 2017. Indeed, before 1969 no Myrtle Ave trains ventured south of Chambers. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Feb 28 09:34:55 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 25 21:09:48 2017. the Manhattan centric attitudes in the TA at the timePerhaps culminating at the end of the 70s with route bullet colors based on Manhattan ROW. |
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| (1428691) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 28 12:59:14 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 27 20:28:44 2017. Thanks Steve!! I'm sure I was in Queens that day. I was about 5 weeks old, LOL |
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| (1428721) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 28 16:54:03 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 27 20:26:23 2017. That would be correct since those service lasted until July 1968 when 57/6 open although I believe the NX went a bit earlier. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 28 16:58:24 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Feb 28 08:37:33 2017. Not true. Starting with Chrystie in 1967, M trains (former Myrtle/Chambers) went to Broad St. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 1 08:02:44 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 27 20:26:23 2017. Might be interesting to do a search for IRT RedbirdR33's posts, "Orphans of Chrystie St." (or was it "Street"?)I came across them a few months back doing a search (I wasn't following the Board when these were first posted) - and was impressed with the details. |
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| (1428767) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Mar 1 08:48:46 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 1 08:02:44 2017. Might be interesting to do a search for IRT RedbirdR33's posts, "Orphans of Chrystie St." (or was it "Street"?)Here's what I have so far; the EE,JJ,NX and RJ. I still have to do the QJ as well. Larry, RedbirdR33 Tuscarora Despatch No 3 : The Orphans of Chrystie Street Preface: Chrystie Street is a thoroughfare on the lower East Side of Manhattan that runs from Houston Street south to Canal Street. It is bordered for all of its length by the Sara D. Roosevelt Park. Its certainly not the longest street in Manhattan being barely a mile long, if that and yet because of the subway line that was constructed here in the 1960’s the name “Chrystie Street” is known far and wide. Subfans from Bora Bora to Walla Walla, and from Perth (Austrailia not Amboy) to Canarsie have heard of it. Chrystie Street was a play with three acts. The first act began on November 26,1967 with the opening of the subway line connecting the BMT Manhattan Bridge Line with the IND 6th Avenue Line at Broadway-Lafayette Street. A day later the express track of the 6th Avenue Line between 34 Street and West 4 Street opened for service. The second act began on July 1, 1968 with the extension of the 6th Avenue Line to 57 Street and the opening of the line between the aforementioned Broadway-Lafayette Street Station and the BMT Centre Street Line at Essex Street. The third and final act came in August of that year and saw the several service adjustments that completed all the new routes and services. The D swapped its daytime Brooklyn terminal with the QB and the QJ .The GG was extended to Church Avenue and the F began rush hour express service on the Smith Street and Culver Lines. The first act is what concerns us here. The opening of the Chrystie Street Subway merged the IND and BMT into a single system known as “Division B.” The IND letter system of route identification was extended to all BMT Lines. It had been used been in use in a limited way on the Southern Section of the BMT since the early sixties. Every subway line including those of the IRT (Division A) was assigned its own color. The November 1967 Edition of the subway map was awash in a kaleidoscope of colors. Almost every subway line had either its route or its designation changed. Three of the new lines that were created, the JJ,NX and RJ had very short service lives and because of this are little known . This is compounded by the fact that the subway map frequently had conflicting and incomplete information in the service guide. This is a discussion of those lines. Part 1 : The RJ – Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street Line Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, June 28, 1968 The Route: 168th Street – Jamaica Avenue, Queens 95th Street – 4th Avenue, Brooklyn via the Williamsburg Bridge and the Montague Street Tunnel Distance: 21.81 Miles Running Times: 70 Minutes - express 78 minutes – local Stations: 49 Map Color: Red The RJ was listed on the front of the subway map as a “Special Rush Hour Service” which also included the NX,QB and 5 (Thru-Exp). It was a somewhat arbitrary designation as several other rush hour routes were not included. The service guide stated that the RJ ran during the AM rush northbound and the PM rush southbound as a “local” service. The reverse side of the map contained a strip map with the following information: Trains operate during rush hours Mon-Fri. During the PM rush from 6:20 to 6:55 RJ trains operate express along Broadway Brooklyn. Now how could a train that is listed as running in one direction only on the front of the map suddenly start running in both directions by the time it reached the back of the map? More intriguing, how could a train listed as running as a southbound local on the front of the map run as an express on the reverse side. Especially as it would be running express southbound at the same time that the QJ was running express northbound on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. The Broadway Brooklyn Line is a three track line and the center express track can only be used in one direction at a time. As we shall see the RJ ran in both directions in the rush hour and certain trains did run express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. SERVICE DURING THE AM RUSH Northbound service: A total of five trains left 95 Street from 7:46 AM to 8:33 AM. The 7:58 and 8:10 departures ran all the way to 168th Street while the other three terminated at Eastern Parkway . These trains made all local stops. Southbound service: A total of five trains left 168th Street from 5:28 AM to 6:19 AM and ran to 95th Street . The first four trains made all local stops while the last one ran express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line from Eastern Parkway to Essex Street. It was the first southbound express of the day on the line. Note that the southbound service from Jamaica filled a service gap between the last JJ departure to Broad Street at 5:13 AM and the first QJ departure to Brighton Beach at 6:29 AM. SERVICE DURING THE PM RUSH Northbound service: Six trains leave 95th Street from 5:37 PM to 6:25 PM and run to 168th Street. The first five ran express from Essex Street to Eastern Parkway with the 6:14 PM departure closing out the day's express service on the Broadway Brooklyn Line . The last departure at 6:25 PM made all local stops. Note that the northbound service fills a 45 minute gap in northbound QJ service. Southbound service: Five trains leave Eastern Parkway and make all stops to 95th Street. There is no southbound PM rush service from 168th Street. The RJ ended service on Friday, June 28, 1968. Its replacement was an RR Nassau Street – Fourth Avenue Local between Chambers Street and 95th Street via the Montague Street Tunnel. Part 2 : The NX Broadway - Sea Beach Brighton Express Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November, 1967 passengers on the BMT Brighton Line had the choice of three services to Manhattan during the rush hours. There was the “Q” Broadway-Brighton Express between 57th Street – 7th Avenue and Brighton Beach via the north side of the Manhattan Bridge running express on the Broadway Line in Manhattan and the Brighton Line in Brooklyn. There was the “QT” Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel running between Ditmars Boulevard – Astoria and Coney Island (Platform B) via the 60th Street Tunnel and the Montague Street Tunnel. There was also the “M” Nassau Street – Brighton Express which ran in the direction of traffic from Brighton Beach to Chambers Street in the morning rush and from Chambers Street to Coney Island (Platform A) during the evening rush. It ran via the Montague Street Tunnel and ran express on the Brighton Line between Prospect Park and Kings Highway. The most popular of these services was the “Q” as the Broadway Line served both the East and West Sides of Manhattan. It also offered an array of convenient connections; at Broadway – Canal Street with the Centre Street Loop to the Lower East Side and the Financial District, at Union Square with the IRT Lexington Avenue Line and the BMT’s own 14 Street Crosstown Line, at Herald Square with the 6th Avenue IND, at Times Square with the IRT Broadway – 7th Avenue, Flushing and 42 Street Lines and again at Lexington Avenue with the IRT East Side Lines. So popular was this service that whenever the “Q” express was not operating it was the practice to run the Brighton Local via the bridge which was known as the “QB.” The new service plan called for the 6th Avenue “D” train to be the primary Brighton Line service. It would run express on the Brighton Line from about 6AM to 8 PM and enter Manhattan via the tracks on the north side of the bridge and the new Chrystie Street Subway. By contrast to the Broadway Line the 6th Avenue Line ran straight up the center of Manhattan Island and did not have the convenient connections of the Broadway Line. Brighton Line passengers were angered and dismayed at the thought of losing their popular “Broadway via bridge” service and in response to there concerns the Transit Authority proposed two new services both to run from Brighton Beach to 57th Street – 7 Avenue via the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. The new “QB” would run over the more direct route running local on the Brighton Line and then express in Manhattan on the Broadway Line. The other service would run from Brighton Beach south to Coney Island and then north via the express track of the Sea Beach Line and the 4th Avenue Line to Pacific Street. It would then bypass DeKalb Avenue and run express in Manhattan. This would be the “NX.” Both services where scheduled to run five trains each in the direction of peak traffic. The “NX” would operate Monday through Fridays only. Manhattan-bound “NX” trains would leave Brighton Beach from 7:32 AM to 8:21 AM on a twelve minute headway. Brooklyn-bound trains in the PM rush would leave 57th Street – 7th Avenue from 4:47 PM to 5:29 PM, again on a twelve minute headway. The twelve minute headway was determined by the running time on the express tracks of the Sea Beach Line between 8th Avenue and Kings Highway. This was an absolute block . A block being a length of track of defined limits and the absolute means that only one train at a time is permitted in the block. A northbound “NX” train at Kings Highway for instance could not enter the block until the preceding train had cleared the block at 8th Avenue. It was impossible to run service on more frequent intervals and if you wanted to run more “NX” trains you could do it only by extending the service hours. The biggest hurdle that the “NX” faced was operating through the terminal at Coney Island which could delay trains for up to ten minutes. The delays incurred at Coney Island negated whatever advantage was gained from the express run on the Sea Beach Line. The NX – Broadway Express Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, April 12, 1968 The Route: 57th Street – 7th Avenue, Manhattan Brighton Beach, Brooklyn Via the Manhattan Bridge (south side) the 4th Avenue and Sea Beach Lines Distance: 16.52 Miles Running Time: 45 Minutes Stations: 12 Map Color: Light Blue Why did the NX fail? There were several reasons including the aforementioned delay at Coney Island and the absolute block on the Sea Beach express tracks. The service was poorly advertised from the beginning. A brochure entitled “New Subway Routes” was issued just before the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway and it listed many of the new routes;B,D,EE,F,QJ RJ and RR but no mention of the “NX”. Many of the subway cars did not have “NX Broadway Express readings on their rollsigns and displayed “N” signs instead. The TA solution was to have a circular blue medallion with “NX” in white letters on the front of the train. The equipment for the “NX” came from the “N” line. All trains were eight cars long and were a mixture of R-27’s and R-32’s and R-38’s, although not in the same train. (The era of mixing equipment in the same train hadn’t started yet.) Part 3 : The EE Queens - Broadway Local First Day of Operation: Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Operation: Friday, August 27, 1976 Hours of Operation: Monday through Friday Approx. 6 AM to 8 PM Terminals: 71st-Continental Avenues, Forest Hills, Queens Canal Street (Broadway), Manhattan (Rush Hour Short Turns) Whitehall Street – South Ferry, Manhattan Route: IND Queens Line between Forest Hills and Queens Plaza, Queens 11th Street Connection and 60th Street Tunnel crossing the East River BMT Broadway Line between Lexington Avenue and Whitehall Street, Manhattan Length of Trip : Forest Hills – Whitehall Street : 13.64 Miles ; 48 Minutes Forest Hills – Canal Street : 12.24 Miles ; 42 Minutes Marker Lights: Green – Yellow Map Color : Orange Of all the new subway routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway in November, 1967 the “EE” didn’t garner much of the media attention that was focused on some of the other new routes but is was a solid and dependable service throughout it’s nine year run. It was not the first subway route to use the letters “EE” and it was not the first to operate through the 11th Street Connection between the BMT and IND in Queens and yet it became so strongly identified with that line that it is still remembered after over thirty years. History: A roll sign reading for “EE 8th Avenue Local” appeared on the roll-signs of the R-1’s when they were delivered in 1931. It was one of the eight original local routes provided in the initial planning of the IND. It was to be a local service connecting the Queens Boulevard Line in Queens with the 8th Avenue Line in Manhattan via the 53rd Street Tunnel. This first “EE” began operation on April 24, 1937 running between 169 Street, Queens and Church Avenue, Brooklyn via the 53rd Street Tunnel and the Rutgers Street Tunnel during non-rush hours. During the rush hours “E” trains would run between over the same route but would operate express in Queens while “GG” trains provided Queens Boulevard local service. Two months later on July 1, 1937 with the completion of the Crosstown Line the “E” was made a full time service and the “EE” joined the “AA” in temporary retirement. The proposed route the new “EE” would not have been possible prior to 1955. On December 1 of that year the 11th Street (Queens) Connection was opened between the local tracks of the IND Queens Boulevard Line just south of Queens Plaza Station and the BMT 60th Street Tunnel. The connection on the BMT end was made just inside the portal on the Queens side of the East River. This two track connection was signaled “GD1” for the Manhattan-bound track and “GD2” for the Queens-bound track. Initially service over this line was provided by the BMT’s Rt. 1 Brighton Line until 1961. On January 1, 1961 BMT Rt. 2 Fourth Avenue Local took over the service. With the delivery of the R-27 cars in 1960 these trains could also be identified as “RR Broadway-4th Avenue Local.” Service over the 11th Street connection was provided weekdays only from about 6 AM to 7 PM. The opening of the Chrystie Street Line would result in the functional merging of the BMT and IND divisions into a single entity to be known as “Division B.” Virtually every route of the BMT and IND would be changed, discontinued, re-routed or re-designated. There would also be several new routes, including the subject of this chapter, the “EE.” The main Brighton Local service, (QB/QT) which had previously run to Astoria was to be re-routed up the Nassau Street Line and the Williamsburg Bridge to Jamaica. The Fourth Avenue Local which had run to Forest Hills on weekdays from 6AM to 7PM and to 57th Street – 7th Avenue at all other times would now be extended to Astoria. A new service was now needed to run between Forest Hills and Whitehall Street . This new service would be designated “EE” and be called identified as the Broadway Local or Queens-Broadway Local. An early proposal was to call the new service “QM” for “Queens-Manhattan.” A fleet of 176 R-1/9’s was assigned to the “EE” which needed a maximum of 22 eight cars trains during the rush hours. Most of the R-1/9’s came from the 1100-1399 group and had the proper route signs which would read “EE Via Broadway” others however did not and which decals with black letters reading “VIA BWAY” were pasted over the roll sign readings. The “VIA” and the “BWAY” were printed on top of each other in full size letters so it was impossible to fit the complete reading into the roll sign box. Some R-1/9’s simply carried the original “EE 8th Avenue Local” readings. As time went on other car classes showed up on the “EE” the R-38’s and R-40’s were there used on and off in 1969. The March 1970 car assignment called for 106 R-1/9s and 104 R-16’s though by October 1970 this was pared back to 88 R-1/9’s and 88 R-16’s. The R-1/9s’ were ordered off the “EE” by November 13, 1970 with the R-16’s assuming most of the service supplemented by R-38’s and R-40M’s. In the middle 1970’s the subway system was in a state of virtual collapse. Derailments and fires occurred on a nearly weekly basis while virtually every surface on the subway system; including tunnels, stations and cars were covered with graffiti. Punks and hoodlums roamed the subway system and made it unsafe to ride outside of the peak hours. Riders deserted the subway in droves for the new express buses or if they did ride they did so only during the rush hours. Money for repairs was in short supply as well so the Transit Authority decided on severe service cutbacks that included the complete elimination of the “EE” and the “KK.” The last day of operation was set for Friday, August 27,1976. The last northbound train, left from Whitehall Street at the end of the PM rush with the following consist: 6432,6441,6416,6491,6398,6430,6419,6482. The last southbound “EE” arrived at Canal Street at 8:20PM and had R-38’s 4031-0,4087-6,4066-7,4050-1. The “EE” replacement was a few rush hour only “N” trains running southbound from Forest Hills in the AM and northbound from Whitehall Street in the PM. Part 4 The JJ-14 : Broadway - Brooklyn Local and JJ - 15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local Of all the routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November 1967 no one has caused more confusion than the route that was know as the "JJ." The New York City Subway Map and Guide issued at the time imparts the following information in the service guide section. The "JJ" (no route name) will operate during the AM rush hours between 168 Street - Jamaica Avenue and Canal Street - Centre Street with "skip stop "B" Stations Queens bound." During the PM Rush service will operate between Crescent Street or Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn and Canal Street in Manhattan. At all other time service will operate between 168 Street - Jamaica and Broad Street. The strip map on the reverse side of the map lists the "JJ" as making all stops between 168 Street and Broad Street with Atlantic Avenue added with an asterisk and some additional information. Monday through Friday during rush hours some trains operate between Atlantic Avenue and Rockaway Parkway via the Canarsie Line. Monday thru Friday during rush hours "JJ" trains terminate at Canal Street. In PM rush hours "JJ" train do not operate between Crescent and 168 Streets. Skip-stop service during the AM rush, 168 Street to Eastern Parkway. Nowhere on the map does it tell you which stops are made and which are skipped. Adding to the confusion was the fact that there were two different systems of route identification in use on the BMT Division at the time. The older system used route numbers and was introduced by at least 1925 while the newer system of route letters began in 1960 with the delivery of the R - 27 cars. The "JJ" was actually two separate services operating at different times between different terminals (for the most part) and using two separate fleets of equipment. One "JJ" covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 14 Broadway- Brooklyn Local while the other covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 15 Jamaica Local. Hereafter I will refer to these services as the JJ-14 and JJ-15 respectively. Chapter 1 : The JJ-14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local First Day of Service : Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Service : Friday, June 28, 1968 Map Color : Orange This service was simply a continuation of the No.14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local which ran during weekday rush hours. There was no change in the route or scheduling . It was a complicated service and much has changed since 1967 which is why I have listed a full description of the terminals. The mileages are as accurate as I can make them and the running time are approximate. Terminals: 168th Street - 168th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens 111th Street - 111th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens Crescent Street - Crescent Street - Fulton Street, Brooklyn Eastern Parkway - Eastern Parkway - Broadway, Brooklyn Metropolitan Avenue - Metropolitan Avenue / Myrtle Avenue Line, Queens Rockaway Parkway - Rockaway Parkway / Canarsie, Brooklyn Atlantic Avenue - Atlantic Avenue - Snediker Avenue, Brooklyn Canal Street - Canal Street - Centre Street, Manhattan Services: 1) 168th Street - Canal Street Lv. 168 St : 7:08 - 8:24 AM ("B" Skip Stop) Lv. Canal Street : 6:58 - 7:38 AM Mileage : 12.65 Running Time : 40-44 Minutes Markers : White - Green 2) 111th Street - Canal Street Lv. 111 St : 6:26, 6:56, 7:07 AM Mileage : 10.28 Running Time: 38 Minutes Markers : White - Green 3) Crescent St. - Canal Street Lv. Crescent St : 5:21, 5: 37, 5:55, 6:12 PM Lv. Canal Street : 4:44, 5:00, 5:16, 5:33 PM Mileage: 7:81 Running Time: 27 Minutes Markers : Green - Yellow 4) Eastern Parkway - Canal Street Lv. Eastern Parkway : 3:05 - 3:43, 4:25 PM Lv. Canal Street : 7:48, 8:42 - 10:18 AM Mileage : 5.96 Running Time : 20 Minutes Markers : White - White 5) Metropolitan Av. - Canal Street Lv. Canal Street : 8:04 AM Mileage: 6.72 Running Time : 24 Minutes Markers: Green - Red 6) Atlantic Avenue - Canal Street Lv. Atlantic Avenue : 8:50 - 9:46 AM , 3:50 - 5:16 PM Lv. Canal Street : 8:11 - 9:12 AM, 3:30 - 4:36 and 5:42 - 6:44 PM Mileage: 6.00 Running Time : 22 Minutes Markers : Green - White 7) Rockaway Pkwy. - Canal Street Lv. Rockaway Parkway : 6:21, 6:41, 6:51 AM, 5:27, 5:43, 6:01 PM Lv. Canal Street : 7:55 AM, 4:52, 5:08, 5:25 PM Mileage : 8.27 Running Time: 30 Minutes Markers : Yellow - Red "B" Skip-Stop Service : JJ-14 trains leaving from 168th Street during the AM Rush operated skip-stop service to Eastern Parkway stopping at 168th Street, 160th Street, Sutphin Boulevard, Queens Boulevard, Metropolitan Avenue, 102nd Street, Elderts Lane, Cypress Hills, Norwood Avenue, Van Siclen Avenue, Alabama Avenue and Eastern Parkway. Equipment and Train Lengths: The original assignment was AB Standards arranged in six cars trains. 84 cars were required for the AM Rush while 48 were needed for the PM Rush. Starting on or about May 9, 1968 R-1/9's from the Queens IND were placed in service gradually replacing the AB's. The roster numbers were 1527 to 1802 with some exceptions. The plan was to have all R-1/9's in service by the time the Williamsburg Bridge Connection opened. The last day of service was Friday, June 28, 1968. The JJ-14 replacement was the KK Jamaica - Bway / Bklyn - 6 Avenue Local. Chapter 2 : The JJ-15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local First Day of Service : Sunday, November 26, 1967 Last Day of Service L Sunday, June 30, 1968 Map Color : Orange The JJ-15 was a continuation of the No. 15 Jamaica Local. Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line No.15 trains had run between 168th Street - Jamaica and Broad Street at all times. During the rush hours these trains ran as Jamaica Expresses but at all other times they were locals. After Chrystie Street service between 168 Street and Broad Street would be provided by QJ and RJ trains on weekdays from about 6 AM to 8 PM. The JJ-15 operate at all other times. Services : 1) 168th Street - Broad Street Monday - Friday Lv. 168th Street 7:32 PM - 5:13 AM Lv. Broad Street 8:28 PM - 6:12 AM Saturday - Sunday - All Times Mileage : 13.66 Running Time : 41 Minutes Markers: Green - Green Equipment and Train Lengths The JJ-15 operated from a common equipment pool with the QB, QJ, and RJ. This pool consisted of R-16, R-27, R-30, R-30 A and for a short time R-11's. Train length was 6 cars in the evening and on weekends, 4 cars during the owl hours and on Sunday mornings. It should be noted that in the days and weeks after the opening of the Chrystie Street Line there was a great deal of confusion and car assignments were not always followed. The 57th Street - 6th Avenue Station and the Williamsburg Bridge Connection both opened on Monday, July 1, 1968. The JJ-15 schedule not affected by this but trains would now be designated as QJ's whether they terminated at Broad Street or Coney Island. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 1 13:49:21 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Mar 1 08:48:46 2017. IRTRedbirdR33,This is great! Thank you so much for posting all the Parts you've researched so far in one post! I found them separately using "simple search" and bookmarked them to come back to later, now however you've made it much easier! - Express Rider |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 1 14:44:51 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Mar 1 08:48:46 2017. Slight correction on the N replacement for the EE. After the N replaced the EE it ran to/from Ctl during the same hours that the EE formerly ran with a few extra rush hour intervals to/from Canal and Whitehall. In the AM rush, all S/B Ns ran lcl on Bway and N/B Ns ran express. In the PM rush till the end of N service to Queens (actually starting about noon for some reason), N/B Ns ran lcl on Bway and S/B Ns ran express. At that time the N had a mix of R-32s, 40Ms, 42s, 46s and an occasional 44 all in 8 car consists regardless of car type. Initially, all Canal and Whitehall St dropouts and put ins had to be only 60 ft cars since the middle tracks in Canal St cannot fit 600 ft trains and put ins from C/Hall Yd had to go into B3 tk in the station to change ends to go south to Whitehall. Some time later, a home signal was installed N/O Canal on B1 tk to protect moves into the station and after that, put ins from C/Hall Yd could then operate into B1 tk in the station to change ends for Whitehall. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 1 19:28:11 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Mar 1 08:48:46 2017. That late 1967 map makes no reference as to when JJ trains ran during non-rush hours. In the line-by-line chart, its rush hour service patterns are noted and the only other reference is, "Other times," which gives the impression that it ran 24/7 in one way or the other. OTOH it made perfect sense not to run the JJ while the QJ was operating, which prior to July 1, 1968 ran on weekdays only from 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 5 05:30:35 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 1 14:44:51 2017. At that time, I think they did that because they either didn't have enough cars to run some trains express uptown evenings/downtown mornings or the cutbacks were so severe they had to run everything local downtown mornings and uptown evenings. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 6 14:53:03 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 5 05:30:35 2017. The reason it was done that way is to effectively replace the EE which had been eliminated. Otherwise, rush hour passengers needing local stations served by the EE would have to change at 57 St to/from a RR to get to Manhattan lcl stations in the AM and from those lcl stations to Qns Blvd in the PM. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 6 16:28:12 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Mon Mar 6 14:53:03 2017. I always wondered why they didn't continue running the "RR" to Forest Hills! The "EE" trains that I rode never had too many passengers on them. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 7 15:20:10 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 6 16:28:12 2017. Can’ t say for sure, but I don’t know why there would be any difference in ridership between the RR and EE to/from Forest Hills since both service served the same stations in Manhtattan and Queens. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 7 15:59:16 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 7 15:20:10 2017. Perhaps, the former "RR" riders thought that the "EE" ran on 8th Ave and took the "F" to Herald Square for the BMT Broadway subway. The "EE" should have been assigned another lettered route, to avoid any possible confusion. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23 |
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Posted by Bzuck on Tue Mar 7 18:00:38 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for February 23, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Mar 1 08:48:46 2017. Larry - Your information is amazing. Hope to link up at member day at SLTM! |
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