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| NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation (1424684) | |
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| (1424684) | |
NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 20 17:31:36 2017 Full presentation on Monday's afternoon board meeting. Agenda R188 Project Update (506 Cars) R179 Project Update (300 Cars) R211 Project Update (Up to 1,545 Cars) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subway Car Fleet Overview Age of Fleet; cars; percentage 0 to 15 years: 3,530 cars - 54% 16 to 30 years: 950 cars - 15% 31 to 40 years: 1,267 cars - 20% 41 years and over: 735 cars - 11% -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R188 | Project Overview CAR BUILDER: Kawasaki Rail Car, Inc. SCOPE: 126 new A Division cars + 380 converted R142A cars (506 total cars) Base Order: 3 trains (23 new cars + 10 converted R142A cars) Option Order: 43 trains (103 new cars + 370 converted R142A cars) Total: 46 trains for Flushing CBTC / 7 Line Extension service SCHEDULE: Base Contract awarded: 5/28/2010 Option Contract awarded:12/30/2011 Final train accepted: 6/30/2016 PROJECT BUDGET: $613.6 million HIGHLIGHTS: Progress - Deliveries completed in June 2016; all 506 cars conditionally accepted and placed in-service - Overall project budget currently 90% expended - 12-Month Rolling MDBF of 222,457 miles exceeds contractual requirement of 150,000 miles. 2017 Look Ahead / Goals - 319 cars remain under warranty -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R179 | Project Overview CAR BUILDER: Bombardier Transportation Corp. SCOPE: 300 60-foot B Division cars SCHEDULE: 36 ½ trains (configured into 65 4-car units and 8 5-car units) Contract awarded: 6/4/2012 Prototype test train delivered: November 2016 Production cars delivery begins (latest proposal): September 2017 Production cars completion (latest proposal): July 2018 Under Review BUDGET: $740.6 million HIGHLIGHTS: Progress - Prototype test train received in November 2016 - Various on-site qualification tests ongoing 2017 Look Ahead / Goals - Complete on-site qualification testing - Begin receipt of production cars in September 2017 R179 | Challenges + Mitigations Schedule - Revised Bombardier schedule proposal under evaluation by NYCT - Bombardier to deliver additional production units to NYCT while prototype testing is underway - Bombardier plans to ramp up production to prevent additional delay and potentially accelerate deliveries Transfer of Production Sites - Expanded oversight by NYCT and consultant - Inspection plan developed for additional production sites - Additional car sets of material on hand in the event of defects Overlapping of Deliveries & Testing - Bombardier plans to address any required modifications - Bombardier will group these cars by modifications, as required -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R211 | Project Overview SCOPE: RFP for up to 1,545 B Division Subway Cars - Base order of 10 open gangway prototype cars, 75 SIR cars & 200 NYCT cars - Option I for 740 NYCT cars (open gangway or standard configuration) - Option II for 280-520 NYCT cars for B Division service growth SCHEDULE: Design start: 12/14/2012 RFP issued: 7/22/2016 RFP Proposals received: 12/15/2016 Contract Award (forecast): mid-2017 BUDGET: $3.2 billion (not including Option II) HIGHLIGHTS: Progress - Proposals received from car builders in December 2016 - RFP evaluation process ongoing 2017 Look Ahead / Goals - Completion of public mock-up forecast for May 2017 ************************************************************************** January 2017 CPOC IEC Project Review Subway Car Procurements -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R188 Budget Review The project is on budget. Outstanding change orders are not expected to exceed the remaining contingency. R188 Schedule Review The project remains on schedule with no slippage since the IEC January 2016 report. The IEC notes that delivery completion supports the schedule for the CBTC Flushing project. Observations The IEC observed prompt response and investigation by NYCT and the carbuilder to identify and resolve technical issues and to approve and implement field modifications. The IEC observed a coordinated effort between NYCT and the carbuilder resulting in an MDBF that exceeds the contractual requirement of 150,000 miles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R179 Budget Review The project budget was increased to offset the cost of consultant construction administration for program delays associated with welding and truck casting issues that occurred earlier in the program. The IEC notes that the contract provides for liquidated damages to recover the cost of contractor delays. With four (4) outstanding change orders, the IEC believes the current budget and remaining contingency are adequate to complete the project. R179 Schedule Review The carbuilders schedule has slipped an additional 6 months since our last report of January 2016. The project is currently 24 months late with a proposed delivery completion date of July 2018. The additional slippage is due to delay in the production and testing of the pilot cars and completion of on-site qualification testing. The carbuilder has submitted a Recovery & Mitigation Plan to NYCT. If successfully executed, the IEC believes a portion of the additional 6-month delay may be recovered. R179 Project Risks The carbuilder plans to ramp up production to 1 car/day in 2017 from the current production rate of 1 car/4-days. Considering the carbuilder performance to date, it is the IECs opinion that the carbuilder may be unable to achieve the full production rate. The IEC is concerned whether the supply chain will be able to support Bombardier's aggressive ramp up schedule. The ramp up plan also requires NYCT to accept cars at a rate of 1 car/day which may be difficult to maintain on an uninterrupted ongoing basis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- R211 Budget Review The current Budget is $3.2B and includes the purchase of 75 SIR cars, one Open Gangway Test Train, and 940 B Division Railcars a portion of which may be open gangways. R211 Schedule Review The R211 project is currently in the RFP stage. Proposals were received in December 2016. The award date has shifted from early 2017 to mid-2017. R211 Project Risks The IEC has identified the following as potential factors that could influence the success of this project: Complicated multi-phase procurement Changing landscape of suppliers Introduction of new technologies |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 20 18:34:56 2017, in response to NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 20 17:31:36 2017. Gentlemen notice: the 75 cars for SIR will NOT be open gangway. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jan 20 20:39:03 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 20 18:34:56 2017. I would't have expected them to, but glad to see that suspicion confirmed. SIR is probably first in the pecking order for replacement, to get rid of the R44s. Waiting for the MTA to analyze the open gangway test trainset while "the mainland" gets new traditional cars would have seemed a little backwards.Also everything they do relies on having single unit cars. From train storage to variable length consists to shipping cars off to CI for major work. I actually am expecting that they will be getting them with couplers instead of links between cars. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 20 20:44:07 2017, in response to NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 20 17:31:36 2017. Why are a few R179s done in 5-car units as opposed to the majority being 4-car units? |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jan 20 20:57:09 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 20 20:44:07 2017. For the SAS expansion. Three new stops requiring 10 car trains, thus the need for 5 more 10 car trains. They would go to the A so that 5 R46 trains could go to Jamaica, and then 5 10 car R160 trains would go to Coney Island. They were either overconfident in BBD or underconfident in the SAS and thought that the new trains would have been here before it opened.I'm guessing the equipment assignment shifting will still occur, so that R68s won't have to run on any Broadway lines anymore. The entire order is probably going to the A and C pool anyway, except for 5 8 car trains to replace the Eastern Division's last R42s. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 21 01:41:47 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 20 20:44:07 2017. They were ordered so long ago the thought was to retire all the R32/42. Because of ridership increases that idea is out the window.But I wonder this. Because of ridership increases have we ordered too many 4 car sets? If we ordered more 5's and less 4's we could have 10 car C trains. But the way it's set up, the C will have to stay with 8 cars. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 21 02:48:12 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 21 01:41:47 2017. Or we could have 9 car L trains... |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sat Jan 21 07:50:30 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 21 02:48:12 2017. OH NO - Here we go again with a 9 car L thread 😱 |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by zac on Sat Jan 21 08:49:28 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jan 20 20:57:09 2017. So how long will the R32s still be running?I stood at the RFW of an R32 C train, the first time in years, just the other day. I'd forgotten what that was like. It was just from 42nd to Spring but it was still kind of fun to see. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 08:52:05 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by zac on Sat Jan 21 08:49:28 2017. There will be at least some until the R211 come in. How many and where they will be are anyone's guess. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 10:12:29 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 20 18:34:56 2017. 75 SIR cars ? It should take 80 cars to replace 64 75-footers. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 10:15:10 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bzuck on Sat Jan 21 07:50:30 2017. But he's right.Makes we wonder if retrofitting the L for 10 car trains and the 7 for 12 car trains would have been cheaper than all this CBTC and its alleged ability at capacity ? |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 21 11:10:45 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bzuck on Sat Jan 21 07:50:30 2017. Or 9-car Curly, Moe and sZemp trains. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 11:39:55 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 21 11:10:45 2017. J/Z don't need it. M - I don't know. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 11:50:16 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 11:39:55 2017. M would benefit as it would help dwell times in Manhattan and Queens. They would have to do something crazy to get it to fit in Metropolitan Ave though (it would be nice if they'd take advantage of the upcoming shutdown...). |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jan 21 12:02:59 2017, in response to NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 20 17:31:36 2017. Thank you. The whole R179 thing seems so silly to me- a small order of orphan cars that's having a lot of trouble from the get-go. As far as others "in the know" on here have reported, there's very little if any functional difference between R179s and R160s- yet the units will be incompatible.It defies my logic to understand why they didn't just order more R160s- (even if a different contract number was used). The R160s seems to be working out OK after ~10 years of service- and now the fleet would just be 300 cars bigger- more cars perfectly interchangeable with each other. The original IND had the right idea, I'd say. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 12:08:27 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jan 21 12:02:59 2017. Yup, should have just given it to Alstom and Kawasaki again.Kawasaki pumped out the R188s right on time. I'm confident they would have been able to handle the R179 contract without difficulty. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Sat Jan 21 13:01:27 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by zac on Sat Jan 21 08:49:28 2017. Has anyone given thought to keeping R32s on one route for tourists? That route would be either shortened or otherwise needing less equipment.The R32s have a sorta "Real New York" character (where Real == What Tourists Saw In Movies, of which there are many). They'd need better AC tho, nobody wants the reality of authentically broken stuff. Also, they were Made In USA, probably by veterans of WWII. That's not the same as "Assembled in USA from Chinese Steel to German Blueprints commissioned by a Canadian Snowmobile Company". Somehow the latter doesn't quite have the right ring to it. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Sat Jan 21 13:17:05 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Steamdriven on Sat Jan 21 13:01:27 2017. Up until a few years ago, the R32s were basically exclusively on the C for most of the year (except during summer, when they would be swapped to the A or the J/Z; since the C runs entirely underground, its route puts more strain on the air conditioning during the summer than the A or J/Z). But starting a few years ago, now the C and J/Z split the R32 and R160 fleet all year long. I believe it was to placate C train riders by giving them some new R160 cars.Riding the C with its long headways and short trains is already cruel enough, don't screw over the riders even more with a 100% R160 fleet! |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 21 13:30:28 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jan 21 12:02:59 2017. I don't consider a 300 car order an orphan.If anything, the R143 order was orphan. Less than 300 cars. 212? |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:01:31 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 11:50:16 2017. Good point about the shutdown. Even if the platforms on the rest of the BMT Eastern arent extended, Met should be extended to a 10 car platform anyhow just in case. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 21 15:13:11 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:01:31 2017. The ED stations should have been modified years ago.Sure,some stations would require more drastic measures, such as Myrtle Avenue, Eastern Parkway,Fulton st and Chambers, where the structure and guideways would have to be moved..but it can be done. The real issue here is,Should it be done? A simpler solution would be to increase service output, run more trains,more service. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 15:13:12 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 21 15:01:31 2017. It would be a hell of a mess to extend that platform. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 15:16:10 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 21 13:30:28 2017. The 5 car sets are orphans. You won't see 9 car trains. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 21 16:54:21 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 21 15:16:10 2017. Not really orphan as they're identical to the 4 car sets the same shops will be servicing, more like they would only pair amongst themselves. It is slightly limiting but not as bad. If there's an uneven number of sets available the extra one can run on the Rockaways Shuttle. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Jan 22 21:49:56 2017, in response to NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 20 17:31:36 2017. With the R188 order already complete, why are there still two R62A trainsets in use on the Flushing line? Shouldn't the entire line be only R188s? What happens when CBTC goes into effect? Did they under-order like on the L line? |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bzuck on Mon Jan 23 12:54:46 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by gbs on Sun Jan 22 21:49:56 2017. I think I read somewhere some of the R188 sets were being used for CBTC testing. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Jace on Mon Jan 23 15:19:06 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 20 20:44:07 2017. To get as many trains out of 300 cars as possible. There will be 36.5 R179 trains (yes, half a train). Early in the process there was going to more 5-car sets but the net result would have been only 30 trains. |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Jace on Mon Jan 23 15:22:17 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jan 21 12:02:59 2017. Simple answer is price. 300 R160s would have cost more than 300 R179s. Plenty of people wanted more R160s but money talks... |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 23 15:40:06 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Jace on Mon Jan 23 15:19:06 2017. Half train is no big deal because there are always cars out for maintenance. It's called "spare factor". |
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Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 25 00:46:52 2017, in response to Re: NYC Transit Subway Car Program Progress Update (R179, R211) - 1/2017 presentation, posted by Jace on Mon Jan 23 15:22:17 2017. Why? |
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