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| Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 (1396846) | |
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Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016 DPA via Deutsche Welle
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 22 16:42:27 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. Without Night Train they'll have to drink Thunderbird. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 23 10:42:41 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. So what night train routes are still remaining? Perhaps a trip is in order |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 23 10:43:18 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 22 16:42:27 2016. And the price isn't thirty twice. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. Night trains blow. They're not comfortable, you can't see anything, they often leave excessively late and arrive ass early, and they aren't significantly cheaper than a LCC airline and an extra night hotel stay. Having taken them a few times, I get the nostalgia value but won't miss them. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 23 15:07:17 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016. If I needed to get somewhere, the time were convenient to me and I didn’t want to be bothered with the hassles of airport security, the a night train would be good for me. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 23 18:35:36 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016. So it sounds like DB's degrading the service deliberately. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 23 18:35:36 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016. So it sounds like DB's degrading the service deliberately. |
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| (1396970) | |
Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon May 23 22:35:44 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016. Cheap flights, liberalization of bus service, and the high speed network are what's killing the overnight trains. When the flights are the same cost as the couchette, the flight wins. When there's super cheap bus service where the pricing beats coach in the equivalent of our Amfleet IIs, the bus wins. And when the spread of high speed networks means that 12 hour trips are shortened to 5 and 6 hour runs, even the day time train wins. It certainly doesn't help that the creeping privatization of the railways means that the network isn't run under a public service aegis anymore. |
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| (1396971) | |
Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 23 22:39:05 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon May 23 22:35:44 2016. Cheap flights, liberalization of bus service, and the high speed network are what's killing the overnight trainsWrong. DB is deliberately degrading the service. Monopolies don't have to worry about maintaining standards. It does not have to do with passengers abandoning the service. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon May 23 22:40:43 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon May 23 10:42:41 2016. There isn't much left. I think Berlin-Malmö still runs, along with Vienna - Venice, Madrid-Lisbon, Paris-Moscow, Paris-Venice, and Paris-Milan. The connections to Spain are getting trashed and will be gone soon, and SNCF is trying to terminate the internal stuff within France. The German connections will be gone by the end of the year too... |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 24 02:13:08 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by P.Opus on Mon May 23 13:57:34 2016. Are you referring specifically to CNL services, to overnight trains in Europe, or to overnight trains in general, including those in North America and Asia? Because I found my ride on the Berlin-Malmo night express to be much more comfortable than my ride on the Capitol Limited. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 24 02:21:42 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 23 22:39:05 2016. DB is deliberately degrading the service.How do you know that? It's not mentioned in the article and we know you have no firsthand knowledge of the situation, so what is your source for this assertion? Monopolies don't have to worry about maintaining standards. Except that Germany is in the process of creating open access under private operators. Nobody has expressed an interest in providing overnight train service. Why do you want to force DB to maintain an unpopular service when high speed trains allow those trips to be made with minimal inconvenience during the day? It does not have to do with passengers abandoning the service. Again, what is your source for this information? That is not stated in the article. Please don't manufacture facts to suit your argument. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 02:30:26 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by WillD on Tue May 24 02:21:42 2016. I believe a previous poster in this thread already nailed it. :)
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 24 10:46:46 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by WillD on Tue May 24 02:21:42 2016. How do you know that? It's not mentioned in the articleYou're really obtuse, aintcha? They're a state monopoly and can do whatever they please. It's exactly like LIRR degrading Greenport service, NJT degrading the Princeton Dinky, SEPTA refusing to re-route diesel service to 30th Street as part of plans to close Reading Terminal (or perhaps more like their more-brainless abandonment of electric service to West Chester), South Shore/NICTD getting rid of service to South Bend city . . . the list is endless. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 24 14:05:19 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon May 23 22:40:43 2016. Well damn, if I'd known about Berlin-Malmo I would've said to hell with the flight from Zurich to Stockholm and had myself an adventure. Looks like another visit to my Swedish Sweetie is in order ;) |
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| (1397028) | |
Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 14:43:26 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 24 10:46:46 2016. They're a state monopoly and can do whatever they please.Thanks to European Union reforms, they're no longer entitled to state monopoly status, and there are open access private operators that have access to their network. As I noted before, since they're no longer direct tools of the state, they're not going to run unprofitable services any longer, and the overnight trains are no longer as well patronized in the era of high speed lines, cheap bus service, and cheap flights on RyanAir, EasyJet, Eurowings, and other numerous carriers. FWIW, you could make all the arguments that DB could improve the service, but improving the service doesn't magically make it *profitable* or cost neutral enough to keep it. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 14:48:51 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 24 14:05:19 2016. I'd argue that the ideal trip would be after the high speed service is upgraded between Berlin and Munich, otherwise, it's a slowish (100 to 125 mph) run in East Germany and large stretches of Bavaria.OTOH, I'm considering riding the train from Paris to Venice, so I'm a crazy railfan too. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue May 24 15:15:47 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 24 10:46:46 2016. Sounds just like what private companies do to cut costs on unprofitable services. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by WillD on Wed May 25 02:47:13 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 24 10:46:46 2016. The only endless thing around here is your ability to manufacture conspiracy theories to explain decisions you disagree with and then create facts to support those theories. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by WillD on Wed May 25 03:28:09 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 24 14:05:19 2016. Berlin Night Express was kinda emblematic of the problem with overnight trains in Europe. EN210 left Berlin at something like 2315 and arrived in Malmö at what feels like a very early 0800 after the relatively late departure. By the time I got settled into the sleeper (a compartment to myself!) and got to sleep it felt like it was time to get up in Malmö. The SJ sleeper cars were nice, but there wasn't much time to enjoy them and I completely slept through the ferry crossing.Today the Berlin Night Express has a longer schedule and takes nearly 12 hours to go from Berlin to Malmö. That makes its arrival and departure times a bit more reasonable, but the train must reach a point where it's held, likely at Sassnitz and Trelleborg while waiting for the ferry. And of course it means that the route loses more business to daytime rail routings and airlines. And just to assuage Olog's conspiracy theories, the Berlin Night Express is provided by the Swedish private operator Snälltåget with crews and locomotives from Transdev and cars from Statens Järnvägar, the Swedish national railways. The only way DB gets involved in its operation is in providing the infrastructure in Germany and providing ticket sales through their travel agency windows in major train stations. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 25 08:15:11 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. So...please excuse my terrible ignorance here- but what exactly are the "night trains"- and if there's going to be "ICE" service, isn't that just a modernization of long-distance railway service?Don't some of the ICE routes also cross borders? So what exactly is being lost here (besides the German Auto Train- which is regrettable?) If "night train" service completely went away, would it still be possible to take a train from Paris to Berlin, etc? What about Euro Rail passes, etc? |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 25 08:16:09 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 14:48:51 2016. That's still faster than almost anything we have over here... |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 25 15:09:49 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 25 08:16:09 2016. I'd compare it to the upgrades that Amtrak gave to the ancien New Haven line east of New Haven. Some grade crossings, fully wired, but the 100/125 mph is really peaking at selected moments with a lot of slow downs for curves.FWIW, once you've done 320 km/h on a high speed railway, everything else seems much slower. Even 135 mph on the Acela seems "slow". |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 25 15:22:25 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 25 08:15:11 2016. The night trains are basically sleepers. Compared to previous years, the existing set of sleepers is far reduced, and the elimination of City Night Line pretty much eliminates much of the German network of sleepers. As I noted before, SNCF is mulling eliminating much of their network as well.Don't some of the ICE routes also cross borders? ICE crosses into Netherlands for service to Amsterdam, Austria for Vienna, France for service into Paris, Switzerland for service to Basel and Zurich, and Denmark for service into Copenhagen. IIRC, the Eastern European countries next door either have traditional locomotive hauled sets that DB provides or it's provided by the mainline carriers there. If "night train" service completely went away, would it still be possible to take a train from Paris to Berlin, etc? What about Euro Rail passes, etc? Euro Rail passes are not going away. :-) As of right now, there is no direct service from Paris to Berlin. The sleeper was eliminated about three or four years ago, IIRC. If one wanted to go from Paris to Berlin, the choice is between using the ICE from Paris Est to Berlin with a change in Frankfurt, and that would be a roughly 8 hour trip with about 2/3rd of the route being on high speed stretches. Once can also travel via Cologne to Berlin, and it would be somewhat similar in terms of travel time. FWIW, I found a last minute flight from Paris-Orly to Berlin Schoenberg for $268 on Easy Jet. While Easy Jet is basically a Euro version of Spirit or Frontier, a lot of people would put up with it, especially when the last minute pricing on the train is nearly the same price. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 25 16:14:17 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 14:48:51 2016. Still, it was a great opportunity |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed May 25 16:17:44 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by WillD on Wed May 25 03:28:09 2016. I actually think the 2315-0800 is perfect. Get on, go to bed, wake up and you're there. 12 hours isn't bad either, more leisurely, but the first schedule is perfect IMO, unless you're looking specifically from a railfans perspective of being able to appreciate the different aspects of the trip. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 26 15:03:46 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 25 15:22:25 2016. Ok, thank you. So it seems to me that loss of "night trains" is worthy of quite a bit of nostalgia, even from me, who has never been to the European mainland.But it's not really a loss of service. In fact, the ICE is probably better. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 26 19:50:58 2016, in response to Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 26 15:03:46 2016. Yes, it is a loss of service. DB has been deliberately degrading it. |
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Re: Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016 |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 26 20:57:03 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. Fuck. I don't think I can manage a trip to Europe on short notice. :( |
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Austrian Federal Railways to buy 42 former Deutsche Bahn sleeper cars |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 8 08:17:43 2016, in response to Deutsche Bahn to end Nachtzug service (CNL) and auto trains (Motorail) by end of 2016, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 22 16:24:21 2016. AFP via The Local
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