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| Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight (1335807) | |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:27:39 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:22:30 2015. And I said you're wrong! As in there's an infinitely small chance anyone would be insane and stupid enough to bring such a lawsuit, and as such, there is no need to even claim that it is a measurable possibility! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:28:30 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:20:23 2015. No, there's no difference. Both are wrong. HENCE WHY I SAID YOU ARE WRONG. What part of "you are wrong" do you not understand???? |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:30:39 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Mon Jan 26 18:15:35 2015. Yes, but I've also dealt with people from elsewhere up close and personal who expect people to come in no matter what and don't necessarily realize the "ambulance chaser" society we have here. There are a lot more of those than some realize and that's why I think if Wall Street is adversely affected enough, there may very well be lawsuits to block future total shutdowns, citing the 2003 and '06 blizzards and more recently the earthquake/tsunami and Super Typhoon in Japan as how it should be done.This to me again is blowback for 2010 when the MTA was caught off-guard and ill-prepared due to the Christmas Holidays and lack of available media that today would not be the case along with other factors that now would not be tolerated like it had been before that storm. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 26 19:41:10 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 17:55:17 2015. Wallyhorse, dress warmly, and take one last ride on the 2nd Ave el before it shuts down at 11PM tonight. Get off at 23rd Street, run up to Bellevue and load up on your meds! Hurry up!!! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:57:20 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:30:39 2015. Yes, but I've also dealt with people from elsewhere up close and personal who expect people to come in no matter what and don't necessarily realize the "ambulance chaser" society we have here.Too bad about them. There are a lot more of those than some realize and that's why I think if Wall Street is adversely affected enough, there may very well be lawsuits to block future total shutdowns, citing the 2003 and '06 blizzards and more recently the earthquake/tsunami and Super Typhoon in Japan as how it should be done.Nope, there very well may NOT be. 2010 when the MTA was caught off-guard and ill-prepared due to the Christmas Holidays and lack of available mediaWRONG. That was not the issue at all. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Jan 26 20:36:32 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 17:55:17 2015. Wall street people who need to be at work tomorrow are already in near by hotels at company expense. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 20:41:38 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 26 18:41:29 2015. We've been here before, right? Somehow, for every previous snowstorm, the subway kept running, and with limited exceptions, successfully. But what was different this time? The Governor made a decision independent of plans that were developed extensively by MTA to handle this exact situation. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Jan 26 20:53:36 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 18:02:52 2015. No one can sue to force the MTA to keep service running because it suits them. IF wall street can't do business it can do business. You are assuming that because other countries are involved, they have to think different, but the fact of the matter remains that the wall street people are mostly AMERICANS and don't give a damn about anyone else's issues with our work ethic if it means risk to life and limb. A blizzard is not an earthquake and it's not a tropical storm.It's a @#$%ing BLIZZARD! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 26 20:57:37 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 20:41:38 2015. It's also possible that transit experts might have wanted to shut down, but were overruled by politicians who were afraid of the fallout. we will probably never know. We are accustomed in NYC to the premise that subway service to the entire system is a 24/7 given. That is not the case in many cities. I don't know if this is ultimately going to turn out to be a good or a bad move. But I do not see the necessity of operating overnight to serve a small number of people, most of whom should not be out anyway. Organizations that need their workers have or should have plans for holding over essential workers or arranging special means of transport. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 21:14:29 2015, in response to Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Jan 26 18:58:05 2015. EXACTLY!!Shows you what a fucking scumbag outfit they are. There's no reason why underground portions can't run. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Jan 26 21:14:35 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:20:23 2015. it's not a "might"THEY CAN'T! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:24:32 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 17:55:17 2015. A Wall Street firm's international clients don't give a $#!t if their American counterpart is on Wall Street or at home in his or her pajamas. As long as the work gets done, it doesn't matter where the worker is these days. No lawsuit is going to be successful in keeping the MTA open at all times, nor is anyone going to even try filing such a lawsuit.The reason the MTA (and other systems) approach these situations differently than they used to is not because of ambulance chasers but because due to the proliferation of social media, passengers stuck on trains or experiencing lengthy delays in the days after a storm due to equipment needing repairs is much more widely known. Don't over-think this. It isn't that complicated. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jan 26 21:26:04 2015, in response to Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Jan 26 18:58:05 2015. In the subway I think the trains still run underground polishing the rails, just not in service.They probably don't want people going out in this weather, that's most likely the reason for suspending service. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:26:37 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:30:39 2015. Accepting other cultures is part of how global commerce works today. Many of the people I know who moved to Israel and then moved back to where they came from also had trouble accepting that Israeli culture was not identical to wherever they came from and couldn't adapt to the way things are done in Israel. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:27:16 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:23:47 2015. Exactly. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:28:32 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:13:16 2015. And I might grow wings overnight so tomorrow morning, I can fly to where I need to go instead of using a more conventional means of transportation. It is highly unlikely, but it could potentially happen. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:28:58 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 26 20:57:37 2015. Excellent post |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 26 21:30:01 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 18:55:39 2015. HIGHLY unlikely they sue the state and the MTA. The job of government is to protect its citizens and that's what the state, city, and MTA are doing. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 26 21:30:43 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:27:16 2015. I second that! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:31:15 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:21:31 2015. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. And if the shoe fits... |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 26 21:31:57 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:17:12 2015. Don't bogart that joint, my friend. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Jrr4 on Mon Jan 26 21:32:18 2015, in response to All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by italianstallion on Mon Jan 26 17:30:19 2015. Why close the long underground portions? |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jan 26 21:33:14 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:07:26 2015. "I would not be surprised Wall Street is affected enough that we see lawsuits that BLOCK the MTA from fully shutting down (at least the underground portions) in the future"That never happened before & will never happen in the future. Following your logic, did Wall Street ever think of sueing the TWU for any legal/illegal/wildcat strikes in the past?? I think not. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:36:28 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:01:29 2015. If someone is so greedy that they put money above all else and have no regard for anything else and insist on going in to the office tomorrow, they can probably afford a car (or several) and it won't matter to them if the subway is running or not. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jan 26 21:36:48 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jan 26 21:26:04 2015. IAWTP. Station stairs needed to be kept clear of snow, etc., which may be very difficult given the forecast conditions. And if you want to see lawsuits - wait for someone to slip going down inadequately cleared stairs! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:37:45 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Ray jules on Mon Jan 26 18:14:05 2015. I don't work on Wall Street but my Israeli boss could care less where I work, whether it be from the office, from my apartment in Jerusalem, or from the States when I travel there, so long as she and my other coworkers know how to get a hold of me and my work gets done. I have no idea what Wally is talking about. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 21:42:51 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Jan 26 21:26:04 2015. I don't think they need to polish underground rails for what appears to be such a short shutdown.Some workers will catch a long lay up or train going to clean rails on structure. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by LA Scott on Mon Jan 26 21:46:48 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 17:55:17 2015. I work for a large Japanese financial company.About half the people worked from home commuting issues, and around 95% are expected to work from home tomorrow. Critical employees who have to be onsite got hotel rooms. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by LA Scott on Mon Jan 26 21:47:35 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by LA Scott on Mon Jan 26 21:46:48 2015. About half the people worked from home today due to commuting issues... |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by jabrams on Mon Jan 26 21:49:39 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 21:42:51 2015. They may run trains and trains with scrapers to scrap the ice off of the third rail, and trains to plow the snow. Not every train will stop at actually 11 PM. Trains will start shutting down at 8 PM, and those workers can take other trains back to their home depot. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 22:07:46 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Jan 26 19:01:02 2015. That's not why.For example, local tracks on Queens Blvd IND won't be used for storage. Neither will the Lexington lines. I can't think of anywhere they will be. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:09:38 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Mon Jan 26 19:57:20 2015. Um....In 2010, many local stations on Christmas day when the forecast for that blizzard exploded did not have normally scheduled newscasts because of the holiday until 11:00 PM. Between that, and people not being able to monitor like they likely would have otherwise due to family/religious commitments, the MTA was caught off-guard and having to play catchup the day after Christmas when it was finally realized that storm was going to be what it became. We are paying the price for those mistakes now with this shutdown. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 22:10:51 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:09:38 2015. Just because you post something over and over again does not make it true. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 26 22:14:40 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 22:10:51 2015. Sort of like the definition of insanity! |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:16:25 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 19:24:51 2015. I can see power being knocked out in some of the outlying areas like the Rockaways, but Its highly doubtful that power would be knocked out on all of Manhattan and even parts of Bkln the Bronx and Queens since those parts of the transit system get their power from Con Ed plants that have underground cables and not susceptible to winds. The Sandy situation was different since even the underground cable were affected bt free running water which we do not have here. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:23:39 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jan 26 22:14:40 2015. Fact was, there was a big lack of coverage leading up to that 2010 blizzard until late Christmas night because many stations that day only had 11:00 PM newscasts because of the holiday and stations did not want to have to make people come in until Christmas night (in fact, I specifically remember on NBC10 in Philly Glenn "Hurricane" Schwartz coming in on his own and doing special webcasts noting the weather because there were no local newscasts there or elsewhere until 11:00 that night). This is something that has NOT happened since and specifically I believe is the case as a direct result of the blizzard of late 2010.The lack of available media to me did play a major factor in the 2010 fiasco. If it didn't, explain to me why in 2003 and 2006 (both storms at least equal to this one) why the MTA didn't do this type of a shutdown and everything went just fine with no major problems. Also explain to me why that was the case in 1983 (when we got 21" of snow) and 1996 (when NYC got a then-record snowfall or close to it) or even the snowstorm a couple of months after the 2010 fiasco in early 2011 when the MTA operated with minimal-to-no problems relatively speaking. That is what would likely be brought up in court if any firms sued to block the state from shutting down the subways during a snowstorm. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:24:11 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 21:14:29 2015. I agree and based on my operating experience with the MTA i can come up with which services can be run and what portions of those services can be safely and reliable operated. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:26:21 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:36:28 2015. Due to the state of emergency, non emergency vehicles are prohibited from the streets. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:28:29 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 21:26:37 2015. Definitely:The problem is, I deal with people up close and personal who don't always seem to get that. Some do, but there are many who simply don't and expect people to do things the way they do them whether they are right or wrong. Just because you're supposed to accept other cultures doesn't mean everyone will even if they should. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:31:13 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:24:11 2015. Right:As said, to me this is an overreaction to the 2010 fiasco and I suspect would be used in if Wall Street firms took the MTA and state to court to block them from completely shutting down the system. All the problems in the 2010 fiasco as I remember were in the outdoor portions that SHOULD be shut down in such. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 22:34:22 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 26 20:57:37 2015. Some of us actually do know. NYCT has a thoroughly developed strategy for this type of event, and the policy does not ever call for a full shutdown. There's little point to procuring a full compliment of snow fighting equipment on a system with the civil configuration of NYCT if your plan is to shutdown in the event of significant snowfall. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 22:35:41 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jan 26 21:14:29 2015. This call appears to have come from the gov, not MTA. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 22:37:48 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:28:29 2015. And none of that justifies your claim that the NYC Subway should remain fully operational during this blizzard. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 26 22:38:05 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:24:11 2015. We don't have ZPTO in the subway system yet. The crews that would operate these trains need to get home too. Where will they sleep if they are stranded in the subway system? They don't all live right near a subway stop. It also takes yard workers to keep things running. I guess they could sleep on the floor or on the bench of an R-160, but is it really necessary? |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:38:39 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 26 20:57:37 2015. Problem is, some of those people have to be with their families until they go to work and in some cases can't just stay near their jobs. It's not as cut-and-dried as some think. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Jan 26 22:38:59 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 18:52:56 2015. There is a very good strong argument for the development of online technologies that allow folks to work from home, or places other than the "traditional office" to carry on certain essential functions in a weather event like this one.Even if there are underground lines like the C-train, R-train or the E-train (examples used in another message) those lines get their trains from exterior train yards and supply areas. Thus a line like the R-train or E-train and even the C-train could be affected by the storm even though they "seem" as if they are all underground. Plus the stairways and platforms (even in underground) would have to be kept clear of snow, requiring transit workers having to travel or remain on duty in (during the middle of a blizzard) would other-wise be a safe place. In addition it is probably better to shut down the whole system in a weather event like this one, rather than to encourage the idea that some folks can get around while others can not. This cuts down on the folks that are on the roads, folks that could be hurt on slippery ice, and clogging the roads with non-emergency vehicles to would need to go to places to serve folks in need. Just a few thoughts. Mike |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 22:39:47 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:24:11 2015. In fact, after the 2010 incident, NYCT developed a Plan V, which calls for curtailing service in targeted areas, and all of the areas susceptible to snow accumulation are supposed to have a snow thrower consist assembled and ready to address any issues. Nowhere in Plan V does it call for a full shutdown. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 26 22:40:47 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 22:34:22 2015. I think here the real problem is the winds, which are forecast to be 50-60 MPH or were at the time the shutdown was announced.The state is likely afraid of a repeat of the 2010 fiasco not realizing there were extenuation circumstances related to the Christmas Holiday that in my view heavily contributed to those problems. |
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Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 26 22:41:04 2015, in response to Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 26 22:26:21 2015. I'm aware of this fact, the premise being debated here isn't all that sound to begin with though. If it was, we wouldn't be having the discussion in the first place. |
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Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Jan 26 22:41:31 2015, in response to Re: Question for the Transit workers here Re: All Transit Closing at 11 Tonight, posted by j trainloco on Mon Jan 26 22:39:47 2015. Interestingly, at today's news conference with Cuomo, Prendergast stated they were implementing Plan V. |
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