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MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012

No way to get around it — Metrocards are going to get more expensive next year, and then again in 2015 and 2017.

The MTA released its 2013 budget today, and officials concretely promised to raise fares in 2013 and then again in 2015.

Combined fare and toll increases will bring in $450 million in 2013, and $500 million in 2015, according to the MTA.

The budget plan leaves the MTA with “fragile stability,” according to the budget.

“I’m pleased that we will be able to keep the MTA’s budget in balance despite our challenges, but I am concerned about the long-term trend in our expenses,” MTA chairman Joseph J. Lhota said in a statement.

Lhota has said in the past there will very likely be a third fare hike in 2017.

The MTA will hold public hearings about the proposed fare increase in November, and they will vote in December for a fare increase to take effect in March. The MTA originally said fares would be raised in January, but announced earlier this month it would be pushed back 60 days. Lhota said he wanted to delay the hike as long as possible.

Ya-Ting Liu from transit advocacy group Transportation Alternatives testified before the MTA board yesterday, asked Gov. Andrew Cuomo to step in and stop the fare hikes.

New Yorkers are feeling “the frustration of being fed a steady diet of fare increases without corresponding improvements in service,” Liu said.

Higher fares coming but rats still abound

Greg Russianoff, staff attorney at the rider advocacy group Straphangers Campaign, said he was nervous that the MTA would consider implementing cost-saving measures they had otherwise disregarded, such as limiting the amount of swipes with an unlimited pass.

Riders will likely not see many changes in return for the increase, he said.

“That’s the problem,” he said. “This morning when I was feeling in a foul mood toward [the MTA] I was getting on my train in Park Slope, and there was a rat that ran across the platform. A lot of people don’t think it’s fair, given what their daily commutes are like."

How high could fares go?

A 30-day unlimited card was $76 in 2007. Today it is $104. Details on how much the fare increase will be were not yet available, Russianoff pointed out that in 2010, the fare for a 30-day unlimited Metrocard increased 17 percent, from $89 to $104. If the fare jumps 17 percent again, the new cost would be $122.

---http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/article/1148463--mta-fare-hike-coming-in-2013-2015-and-2017

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012, in response to MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012.

Who is Greg Russianoff? Is he related to Gene Russianoff?

And I still think it would be better if fares at the turnstiles were eliminated and just added to our taxes. People would not be as angry if they were able to simply walk into the subway and board trains without having to pay a fare. We all pay a ton of taxes anyway, they might as well take a bit more for the pleasure of not having to deal with fare hikes every two years.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 27 08:01:31 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

People would not be as angry if they were able to simply walk into the subway and board trains without having to pay a fare

Yes they sure would. The subway would become the new "homeless central". But you seem super-liberal on this score; you want something for "free", is it?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017


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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 09:25:41 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 27 08:01:31 2012.

Why would the security protocols change simply because the method of payment changes? Do you think turnstiles stop homeless people? Please. Ever been on the E train in the mornings in the winter? That is homeless central.

The police would have the same powers under a taxed fare system as they do under a pay per ride system like we have now.

As for getting something for free, how is paying taxes for a service considered "free"? A service provided by a municipality is only free if you're a freeloader and don't pay any taxes. Taxes pay for all municipal services we now enjoy - police, fire, ambulance, road work, etc. Transit is another municipal service and should also be paid for by taxes rather than by the ride.

What if all city services functioned like the subway? If you were being mugged and needed a cop, you'd have to pay the cop first and then he'd arrest the guy. One payment, one service. If your house caught fire, you'd have to pay the Fire Department first and then they'd come to put out the fire. If your street got hammered by a bad winter and is now full of potholes, you'd have to pay the DOT per pothole before they would come to fix them. Makes no sense.

And to those who would argue that they should not have to pay a transit tax because they don't use mass transit, I could answer that most people never have to call the police or the fire department or an ambulance - yet we all pay taxes to pay for those services.

Paying at the fare box is a relic from the early 20th century, when the subways and buses were privately run and there was no other way to collect revenue for the transit services provided. Since the city and state run the subways and buses (via the MTA) and the state and city have taxing powers, why shouldn't transit be paid for by tax and we can get rid of the Metrocards and the machines and the turnstiles?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 10:40:46 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

And what about people who use the system but don't live in NY? How would they be taxed?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 11:12:47 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 10:40:46 2012.

The commuter tax would have to be reinstated for those people.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Jul 27 12:08:03 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 11:12:47 2012.

And what if the person is unemployed or a child...what then? What about fares for seniors and kids going to school?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 13:20:06 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Jul 27 12:08:03 2012.

Details.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 13:22:14 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by streetcarman1 on Fri Jul 27 12:08:03 2012.

Unfortunately, they will reap the benefit of others paying the taxes for the service, much like how the unemployed and children get police, fire, ambulance and water service today without paying taxes for them.

By the way, aren't subways and buses free for children under a certain age anyway?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jul 27 13:55:25 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

I like the idea, mainly because as an out of towner who visits the city on the weekends, I would be able to use the system without paying into it.
Similarly, tourists (of which there are many).

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, though. Making it free for everybody would actually be amazing for tourism and business in general (people would have no transportation cost to consider when planning their day and might visit a variety of places otherwise not travelled), and save tons on maintenance.

However NYC residents would complain about subsidizing out-of-towners. Thus I can refine your idea: Keep the turnstiles, but all residents of NYC can get a card that swipes for no fare in exchange for the "subway tax". If it is lost/stolen, charge some low rate ($20-30) to deactivate the old one and get issued a new one. This also preserves the ability to get station boarding statistics.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:45:22 2012, in response to MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012.

Higher fares but rats abound

For a 17% fare increase, we should get 17% MORE rats.

At least.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 15:07:35 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jul 27 13:55:25 2012.

"Making it free for everybody..."

Again - if you are paying taxes for it, it is NOT free. It just seems free because you don't have to keep taking your wallet out, but at some point, you are paying for it.

I agree about the card deal, but then what's to stop counterfeiters from producing phony cards, or locals giving out of town relatives their cards?

Obviously details need to be ironed out. But I really think the pay per ride at the turnstile method is outdated.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 27 15:47:11 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 13:22:14 2012.

I thought it was under a certain height

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 16:00:02 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 27 15:47:11 2012.

You're right, its all children under 44 inches in height.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Southern BMT on Fri Jul 27 16:37:47 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:45:22 2012.

LOL

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jul 27 22:28:55 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 15:07:35 2012.

Again - if you are paying taxes for it, it is NOT free.
I'm not paying taxes for it, NYC residents are. Fine, I'll clarify what I meant, "making it free for all non-city residents". Which is why I offered the card idea as a compromise.

or locals giving out of town relatives their cards
That's fine, because the resident would no longer have one to use, and the card was "paid for" by the tax. The deactivation on replacement and $30 replacement fee prevents abuse of this.

what's to stop counterfeiters from producing phony cards
Whatever stops them from doing it now with monthlies...

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 27 23:58:42 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 09:25:41 2012.

We ARE being "TAXED" like hell by the MTA,through various means....
Phone
cable
internet
property
school
gas
electric..

Here in NYC,and the surrounding burbs,The MTA gets a piece of damn near every bill paid. Millions of dollars in tolls paid everyday by drivers who use the bridges,tunnels,railroads,subways and buses.
So I'll never understand how they can always cry broke..

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by the moose on Sat Jul 28 00:09:25 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 27 23:58:42 2012.

IT'S CALLED THE BACK DOOR TAX. Just like bloomberg cries for tougher gun reform and yet he donates money to the polictical member who back the gun lobbist. As seen in the paper today. Call it a back door tax. They say they won't raise your taxes, these politician, but they back door tax you in the forms you mentioned and also include: water, sewer,insurance premiums, condo matience, coop matience etc. There are many ways around no tax pleadge, vote romney and you will find out.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by LA Scott on Sat Jul 28 00:12:36 2012, in response to MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012.

How is this news? The MTA has had a policy for several years now that there will be regular fare increases every 2 years.

Costs (primarily labor and debt service for capital projects) keep going up, and taxes are erratic but overall not increasing as fast as costs.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by the moose on Sat Jul 28 00:16:54 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by LA Scott on Sat Jul 28 00:12:36 2012.

beauty! atleast the mta could allow accessable toilets to take a shit in major stops, instead of peep pee in the end of stations

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Jul 28 01:14:46 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

Bad ides---the NYC transit system is as it is because it is more a user-funded system than anything.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Jul 28 01:30:49 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

I think bi-annual tax hikes would anger a lot of people as well. Additionally, taxes and the revenue always seems to be up for debate depending on who is in charge. Isn't that part of the reason the MTA is in this mess in the first place?



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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jul 28 01:53:17 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Jul 28 01:30:49 2012.

Buy a house some time ... there, it's annual ... and by plenty more than the MTA.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jul 28 11:32:05 2012, in response to MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012.

The Subway is DEAD CHEAP at twice the price! It costs us $25 to drive to the grocery store. It costs $80 to drive to the city for health care.

You kids don know how easy you got it!

ROAR

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jul 28 11:35:55 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 15:07:35 2012.

Just like "Free Education"

My parents paid $200,000 for my education, that is to say they have been paying the school tax for 65 years and haven't had a kid in school in 45 years.

YOU think it is FREE!

You is a dope and we didn't get our money's worth!

ROAR

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by B1bus on Sat Jul 28 21:06:26 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by the moose on Sat Jul 28 00:16:54 2012.

There ARE stations with toilets, whether you would want to use one is another question.
THe only manned one is in TImes Square between the 1 and N line.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:43:35 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 07:31:58 2012.

Why should people who don't ride the subway subsidize those who do? I know this already happens, but not the same extent you propose and it can reasonably be argued that the current subsidy is rationally related to the fact that non-users of the subway benefit from its existence due to increased economic activity and decreased traffic.

But in any case, mass transit is not a public good and should not be free.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:48:20 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 09:25:41 2012.

Police and fire are public goods and ambulances aren't free. Public roads are a common good. Mass transit is neither a common nor public good.

Those examples you gave are silly. Do you not see the difference in excludability between the subway and police/fire/roadwork?

Mass transit should be run as an economic benefit and not as a social benefit.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:49:48 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 13:22:14 2012.

Which is why user fees are the superior mechanism for funding excludable goods and services.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 06:51:00 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:43:35 2012.

You are 100% wrong on everything.


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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 07:14:06 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 06:51:00 2012.

You may disagree with my opinions, but I am objectively right about mass transit not being a public good.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 07:15:26 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 06:51:00 2012.

And you disagree that mass transit use decreases traffic and increases economic activity?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:07:20 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 07:14:06 2012.

Your are full of it. Your are opinions are just that, not "ojectively right".

It has been determined in this society for the past 60 years it is a public good, first with the federal passage of UMTA, then with the transit account in FTA, then with the overhwlelming rejection of John Mica's attempted removal of the transit account.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:08:56 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 07:15:26 2012.

Mass transit decreases traffic and increases economic activity.
If you have blocked out the traffic and economic effects of the various strikes thru the 1980's, that is YOUR problem.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:09:37 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:49:48 2012.

More ramblings of a lunatic.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 11:13:33 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jul 28 11:32:05 2012.

You live near Rimrock Stages or North Central Montana Transit ?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jul 29 11:58:47 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 11:13:33 2012.

Rimrock Stages runs past our place on its run between Billings and Fargo.

Richardton ND

ROAR

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jul 29 15:17:07 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:43:35 2012.

To pay the massive salary increase of their workers.

The good of the few at the cost of the many is the slogan I hear on here a lot.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jul 29 15:30:45 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 03:43:35 2012.

Mass Transit (That is the buses that took us to and from church were *free*, which is to say that the church contracted with the local bus company (Jerusalem Avenue Lines in those days) to provide this service.

Yes, of course the church PAID for the service on an annual rather than on a per capita basis, but EVERYTHING *MUST* be paid for one way or another.

If the Subways were *FREE* (you would only be paying for them with your taxes) then mis-creants and stoopit kids and Gyrovagues would make these places their homes... Smelly feet and all!

MUST have some fare control: $2.50 is cheap enough. (it makes the same dent in you allowance as 25˘ made back in its day.)

The LION *DOES* propose FREE BUSES (or street cars) on certain routes on the assumption that you will have to transfer to the subway or to another bus to complete your journey anyway.

ROAR

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:30:39 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:07:20 2012.

Get back to me after you've learned what a "public good" is. Then if you want to post personal attacks, feel free.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:31:52 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:08:56 2012.

What are you talking about?

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:35:03 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 09:09:37 2012.

WTF is wrong with you? When have I ever personally attacked you? If you can't discuss matters civilly and if you don't know what other people are talking about, stay out of the discussion.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:39:31 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jul 29 15:30:45 2012.

Good post. Joe V seems to believe that the subway has no effect on traffic and economic activity, so he must believe that it's only purpose is to transport the homeless and welfare types instead of productive citizens of all classes.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 19:48:29 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:39:31 2012.

Are you totally stupid or just illiterate ? I said in an above post:

"Mass transit decreases traffic and increases economic activity.
If you have blocked out the traffic and economic effects of the various strikes thru the 1980's, that is YOUR problem."

And yes, this a "public good".





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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 19:49:55 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 18:35:03 2012.

First you better get my positions right, because you got them backwards, then bad mouth me to others.

I don't take kindly to that.



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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Handbrake on Sun Jul 29 20:50:01 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 09:25:41 2012.

Maintaining a fare to enter the system has social merits that many may not agree with. The redeeming social function is similar to a smutz filter.

The bad guys, who do not respect the law, will bypass the fare control point and attempt to ride for free. This provides NYPD with a good opportunity to stop the individual, obtain ID, conduct for a warrant, issue a summons, and make an arrest if the warrant check is returned as a 1018. No to mention perform frisk of the individual under probable cause.

No only a fare free transit system increase occupancy of mobile Homeless Hotel, but would add to the opportunity of felons to roam the transit system to search for prey.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Handbrake on Sun Jul 29 20:54:56 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Jul 27 13:22:14 2012.



Above forty four inches (44") in height the kid pays. At one time it was under four years of age rode for free, and did not rate a seat on the conveyance.

However from the number of children that have I observed ducking under the turnstile with their parents, I believe that the parents are under the impression that kids do not have to pay until they are fully grown.

The MTA should enforce the 44" rule, with NYPD issuing a summons to the parent for fare evasion one suitable graphics have been deployed to make parents aware of the rule.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Handbrake on Sun Jul 29 21:06:55 2012, in response to MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Jul 27 02:08:35 2012.

Eliminate all direct and indirect subsidies to mass transit (NYCT), cut the back office MTA labor pool, institute so called management friendly work rules (AKA: Sweat shop), and a ride on a bus or subway (No free transfer) will probably cost exponentially more than what it does today.

At $2.25 or $2.50 a ride, with one free transfer-two if you are from SI, the NYC transit fare is dirt cheap. For those who would complain, follow the Interstate south to the Gulf states and plant your roots.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 21:52:40 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 19:48:29 2012.

Yes, you disagreed with me when I said that mass transit decreases traffic and increases economic activity.

It is not a public good because it is both rival and excludable. Public goods are neither.

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Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 29 21:53:35 2012, in response to Re: MTA fare hike coming in 2013, 2015 and 2017, posted by Joe V on Sun Jul 29 19:49:55 2012.

Hypocrite.

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