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| Yeah, I miss the R44's too (1160141) | |
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| (1160141) | |
Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jun 3 22:52:37 2012 They actually look good to me.jrc  
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| (1160150) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by CJ on Mon Jun 4 00:23:29 2012, in response to Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jun 3 22:52:37 2012. It's sad none of them won't operate since they have been cannibalized. Well there is the museum and I'm going to hold out luck for that. |
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| (1160174) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 03:35:06 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by CJ on Mon Jun 4 00:23:29 2012. The problem with preserving the R-44s in a museum is that wit some minor exceptions, most passengers who are not railbuffs wouldn't be able to distinguish between the R-44s and 46s so there would probably be no need to preserve both car types. The same would probably apply to the very minor differences between the R-27s and 30s on the BMT and the R-21s and 22s and 26s and 28s on the IRT |
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| (1160177) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon Jun 4 03:41:33 2012, in response to Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jun 3 22:52:37 2012. Strength and Honor to da R44's.chud1 |
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| (1160198) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 4 08:41:54 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 03:35:06 2012. Yes- I will agree with you. Non-railfans couldn't tell the difference between a 44 or a 46, or between a 26 & a 28...Even the R17/21/22 are similar to the R26/28/33/36ML. |
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| (1160210) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 10:22:02 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by CJ on Mon Jun 4 00:23:29 2012. Rumors floating around about taking the controllers from them and putting em in 68s. |
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| (1160213) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by bklyntekgeek on Mon Jun 4 12:01:31 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 10:22:02 2012. Be nice to at least save the glass panels from the R-44 and add them to the R-46's. I miss the glass panels by the passenger seat near the doors. It is very handy especially when you have people standing by the door and they pass gas and it hits you in the face ouch! |
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| (1160217) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 12:45:02 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by bklyntekgeek on Mon Jun 4 12:01:31 2012. I heard years back CED toyed with that idea but didn't go through with it. Those windscreens did little if anything to improve car heating but were noted a few times to prevent thefts from passengers seated by the doors. Not enough pieces to go to all the R46s so I'd rather see them spend money on their mechanicals. Their trucks are noisy, reminiscant of the R40s, choppy dynamic braking and their motor rumbling they should figure out during their next SMS |
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| (1160243) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 15:44:39 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jun 4 08:41:54 2012. The principal difference between the R-17s through 22s and later cars is the style of seating. with the exception of the last 10 R-22s, the remainder of the 17 through 22 cars originally had padded red leatherette seats. The 10 A/C R-17s also had hard plastic seats but they were a dark red color similar to the padded seats and they were also bucket type similar to the R-62s. |
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| (1160245) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 15:46:54 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 10:22:02 2012. The problem is that there are not enough of them to fully equip all the R-68s. |
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| (1160264) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by CJ on Mon Jun 4 17:22:06 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 03:35:06 2012. Standardization does have it's ups and downs. Especially when it comes time to preservation of the equipment. |
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| (1160270) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:08:30 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 03:35:06 2012. Then again, most non-railfans are less likely to visit the museum. The R-44 was the first of its ilk and would be a more significant exhibit that any of its successors IMHO. |
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| (1160278) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 18:25:16 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by chud1 on Mon Jun 4 03:41:33 2012. +1... |
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| (1160279) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 18:28:22 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:08:30 2012. R44s hit above 80mph when they were first born, a 160 cant even do that |
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| (1160281) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 18:42:41 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 18:28:22 2012. Fix and restore the 80 or so that are left servicable,and let them end their careers on a positive note.Such a waste.The TA can waste $$$-with R46s on the "C" extra T/O's are needed to relay trains now.While i am not against more work,it seems wasteful to swap fleets of cars,have "Pull Jobs" and other extra manpower,when it could have been avoided with the restoration of the R-44s.While i like seeing the older SMEE's on the "A" Line it is just for the Summer months and then everything is transferred back again,which costs even MORE money.But hey-no problem,its only the rider's footing the bill.So for 60 R-44s without the reenforced frame,an entire car class is retired.200+ cars-WASTED! I have heard it mentioned that the Fed's are pissed at the TA for wasting funds to GOH these cars only to have them retired prematurely.Thats why they are just sitting dormant,as none have gone out for scrap as yet. |
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| (1160282) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:44:05 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by FarRock on Mon Jun 4 18:28:22 2012. The R-44 traction motors bird-caged on that test run. The car was built with a balancing speed of 70 MPH. When rebuilt, they were equipped so that the balancing speed was only 45 MPH. The current new tech cars can have their software modified and will easily run in the 60-70 MPH range. |
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| (1160285) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 18:49:59 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:44:05 2012. I have operated trains of "Modified" R-44s that hit 48 MPH on the "Flats" hitting that speed just before the Broad Channel Station.The R-46s by comparison just do not operate as fast,toppping out at 43-44 MPH,and that is if you have a good train.The R-44s were a faster train. |
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| (1160288) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 19:01:45 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 18:49:59 2012. Yes they were a faster train. One of the reasons was that while we reduced the field shunting on the R-46 by permanently invoking the energy conservation mode, the R-44 speed was reduced by changing the software on the E-Cams. The outcome was a better accelerating train. Incidentally, if you knew which single wire to cut, you could restore the R-46 to it's 55 MPH top end in a matter of minutes. |
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| (1160292) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Mon Jun 4 19:13:32 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 19:01:45 2012. Cutting the wire would be nice for Rockaway customers. |
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| (1160303) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Jun 4 19:33:27 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:08:30 2012. Agreed. The R-44 represented a bold step in redesigining & passenger comfort that prior R classes lacked. The seating in the R-40 slants & M,& R-42, for example were legalized backbreakers. You would be hard pressed to find a comfortable position even if you were riding only for a few stops.The R-44 design was a turning point in carbody design & passenger comfort that made the older classes look & feel like boxcars with benches. Somebody with imagination & an attitude of creature comfort concerns help make the R-44 happen. Kinda what the R-10 was to the R-9, a big step forward. More than enough IMO to land some R-44 in the musieum. |
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| (1160307) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 19:44:48 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Jun 4 19:33:27 2012. I agree wholeheartedly.Lets preserve at least a A-B set at the very least... |
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| (1160349) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jun 4 22:01:00 2012, in response to Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jun 3 22:52:37 2012. Thanx, all, for the mostly positive comments and responses to this thread.There was a time when I hated these things. Only after their last major rebuilding were the R44's worth a second glance. My favorite run, of course, was from 59th south to 42nd on the (A); with a clear track and good operator, these cars could rip into 42nd better than just about anything else at the time. And the wheezing and hissing of the air brakes was very reminiscent of the varied hisses given off by BMT standards. Yes, I miss the R44's. jrc |
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| (1160354) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 22:13:45 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jun 4 22:01:00 2012. "My favorite run, of course, was from 59th south to 42nd on the (A); with a clear track and good operator, these cars could rip into 42nd better than just about anything else at the time."So you are the reason that we painted the threshold plates red |
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| (1160360) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 22:40:52 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 19:01:45 2012. To those of us in the know it was a matter of turning off a particular low voltage breaker which was later hard wired to the GS. Nothing had to be forcibly open circuited unless you are talking about the R46s |
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| (1160361) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 22:46:45 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 22:40:52 2012. Well since all of the SCMs have had their EC relays jumped out under the car - that's no longer the case. |
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| (1160363) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 22:59:09 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 22:46:45 2012. So it was just the R44s that they LOCALed their EC switches at the consoles. For some reason the revenue collectors and dolly motors never got their SCMs jumped. Was there a particular reason why they didn't out of curiousity without killing cats? |
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| (1160367) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 23:16:47 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 22:59:09 2012. Eventually, the e-cams were given new E-proms but that took time so they did the switch thing first. As for the work motors. I'd have to say that they were simply overlooked- at first, anyway. |
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| (1160369) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 23:28:41 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 23:16:47 2012. I'm glad they didn't find out about the work cars. Fortunately being mostly IRT cars, you never had to worry about painting the door plates red on my account :-) |
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| (1160370) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 23:36:43 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Jun 4 23:28:41 2012. We never intended to use that to check on T/Os. That was actually to find out where cars were hitting because or track issues. Of course, one of the little bosses (you know who) felt that "RED" indicated danger and he wanted to indicate caution so he ordered them painted over in Yellow. Of course, when he finally retired, most stopped painting them. We went back to red. |
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| (1160401) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by 5119 on Tue Jun 5 11:45:33 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Jun 4 22:01:00 2012. Man, you should have rode the R-10's on this run. Kind of scary. They were that fast! |
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| (1160416) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Jun 5 14:26:20 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 19:44:48 2012. What about the SOACs at Seashore? They were R-44s with the exception of their cab windows.--Mark |
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| (1160439) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 5 16:33:33 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Tue Jun 5 14:26:20 2012. However, one of the SOAC cars has padded seats in a pseudo suburban arrangement to demonstrate the car's adaptability for long distance commuter service. |
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| (1160483) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Jun 5 19:53:48 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by 5119 on Tue Jun 5 11:45:33 2012. Agreed. Niosy as heck too:-). That said, I also will miss the R-44s. I remember back in the 1980s, I often passed up the R-44s because they were sooooo slow. |
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| (1160484) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Jun 5 19:54:30 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by WayneJay on Tue Jun 5 19:53:48 2012. *Noisy* R-10. |
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| (1160491) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Jun 5 20:43:39 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by 5119 on Tue Jun 5 11:45:33 2012. Believe me, 5119, I rode the R10's on that run plus +++They were the best. jrc |
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| (1160546) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 6 07:56:18 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 4 15:44:39 2012. Yes, I've seen pictures of the leatherette, or pleather seats...but weren't those gone by the early to mid 1960s?By the late 1980s- early 1990s, I knew that a large number of IRT cars had been scrapped to make way for the R62s...but I knew nothing of R numbers or anything like that. I just assumed (obviously wrongly) that the existing IRT cars were individually analyzed and that those that couldn't be rehabbed were replaced. I didn't know about single-units, dual units, that certain classes couldn't be retrofitted for A/C, etc... An other more modern example that many might miss are the subtle differences between R142 & 142A cars...the side sign display matrix is composed differently, for example. On R142s, it's a bunch of LED dots that make up the route number and destination, while on R142As, its a bunch of odly shaped LED tiles. I also know there small differences between R68s and R68As- primarily in the interior lighting. But are these differences enough to justify maintaining separate classes in future museum fleets? |
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| (1160548) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 6 08:01:07 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 4 18:08:30 2012. That's an interesting point. Many some semi-rail fans would be interested in occiasional visits to the museum, justifying preserving a car class that's representative of a larger group- ie, put R44s or R46s there, but both may not be practical.Since the R44s were the inital game changer, and since they're out of service already (except for SIR), probably permanently and just sitting around, I say make up an A-A set (that would work, right?), clean them up, restore the blue stripe and orginal signage, and we're good to go. |
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| (1160549) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 6 08:05:23 2012, in response to Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by ENY Blitz 5107 on Mon Jun 4 18:42:41 2012. But how much does it cost to main a very small fleet of older, problematic cars? I imagine it's cheaper to order parts in bulk, no? I hope there are volume discounts to cover maintainence on the 142s and 160s, for example... |
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| (1160551) | |
Re: Yeah, I miss the R44's too |
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Posted by Railman718 on Wed Jun 6 08:13:40 2012, in response to Yeah, I miss the R44's too, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Jun 3 22:52:37 2012. From a operational standpoint I don't miss em one effing bit.. |
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