Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av (1149098) | |
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Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 11 20:56:40 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 20:38:03 2012. there was never 2 locals down there..only during the rush hours up to 85..M/QB trains local..D trains express. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 21:03:46 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Apr 11 20:50:24 2012. D was the express to Brighton, went local to Stl. when the M wasn't running.About 6 QB's to 57/7 in the rush, if the cars were available! |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Apr 11 21:07:56 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 21:03:46 2012. Wow so there were a lot of abandoned intervals on the |
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Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:41:31 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 10 16:47:37 2012. In summer 1966, I remember a reverse-peak AM T running to 9th Av. |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:45:33 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 20:34:01 2012. Given the constant delays of the N, Q, R merge at Times Square, reducing R headways would probably be counterproductive. |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:51:26 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Apr 11 20:29:40 2012. The Brighton Line has almost as many riders as all of the services running through the 4th Av. corridor put together, but the 4th Av. corridor has 3 services on weekends, the Brighton only 1.The overkill is and has always been on the 4th Av. corridor, not the Brighton. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 05:59:20 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:51:26 2012. Which is why it may be time once funding gets better to have the (B) at least run on Saturdays in addition to Monday-Friday if ridership warrants. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 06:08:46 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 11 19:27:12 2012. Absolutely, and why if the SAS ever actually gets below Houston I would be looking to connect it to the Nassau Line, which also would relieve overcrowding on the 4/5 between Atlantic-Pacific and 125th. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 06:14:09 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 9 23:34:54 2012. I do like your idea a lot, but do remember, a wild card in all of this is what happens if the LIRR Rockaway Branch is connected to Queens Boulevard, especially if the Convention Center is relocated to Aqueduct. As I would do it, the (W) would be used for that to Rockaway Park from Whitehall Street, especially if Genting (the casino operator at Aqueduct) insists on a connection from lower Manhattan to any QB branch. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 06:21:24 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 11 17:52:53 2012. In that scenario, there can be an SAS shuttle from 96th-57th, however, that is not necessary.The (F) can handle Queensbridge while the (Q) goes to 96th as planned. The (E) has to run local on QB overnights unless you want the (R) running 24/7 because the 63rd street trains can't stop at QB, and I doubt people on QB overnights will tolerate having only the (G) as a local like it used to be. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:05:15 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 06:08:46 2012. If the Nassau line was connected to the 2nd Ave subway there would most definitely be a useful service by using the Nassau-Montague service. Without that, right now, it seems unnecessary. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 08:23:28 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 11 19:27:12 2012. I'd like to see the J go back down to Broad Street on weekends, but if you look at the current load factors, they empty out a lot at Essex, some continuing to Canal, and pretty sparse to Chambers.Nonetheless, it ought to connect to the new Fulton St facility, even if it means terminating there, and deadheading past Broad Street, which otherwise requires another station clerk, to relay. Evenso, they would have to put out another train set. By getting the J out of Chambers, they could send the M there as a cheap extension from its current shuttle status, rather than run to Queens Plaza or Forest Hills, since most would transfer to the F at Essex. The J is often SRO by Myrtle Avenue. |
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Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 08:37:52 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 21:03:46 2012. About 6 QB's to 57/7 in the rush, if the cars were available!Remembers "waiting" at times to see if one would show up had to take the N mostly yes during rush hours in the summer... |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 09:20:58 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 12 05:59:20 2012. I agree totally. I would think that even now, with the current budget difficulties, that at peak seasons (December Christmas shopping, for example) that regular weekend Q service should be augmented with Q-diamond specials. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Apr 12 10:18:46 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 19:59:10 2012. Don't forget there are those who switch to the IRT at Atlantic which is much more inconvenient because they don't want to wait 10 minutes for the R instead of being able to take which ever train comes first Nassau or the R. Not saying that there is enough demand, just that they aren't counted when demand is measured. |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 12 11:00:54 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 19:57:11 2012. The ridership between Dekalb and Broad was minimal. Only the morning rush had enough people to deserve service there. Evening rush the Brooklyn bound trains left Broad pretty empty. |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 12 11:15:34 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:05:15 2012. Whatever others say, Water St. needs a subway instead of the M15 SBS. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 11:27:10 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 12 11:00:54 2012. I agree, I remember being on M trains where I got on at Court or Lawrence, and the train being almost empty as it went through to Broad.....and this at about 4 or 5:00PM. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 11:35:28 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 08:23:28 2012. I'd like to see the J go back down to Broad Street on weekends, but if you look at the current load factors, they empty out a lot at Essex, some continuing to Canal, and pretty sparse to Chambers.I agree about the J should go to Broad, but do remember that the train emptying out is because it doesn't go anywhere. If people wanted the Fulton transfers, or even Broad St, they wouldn't be on the train by the time it gets to Chambers as they would have had to get off elsewhere. So it's like a self fulfilling prophecy that the train is empty by Canal, as it "doesn't go anywhere". By getting the J out of Chambers, they could send the M there as a cheap extension from its current shuttle status, rather than run to Queens Plaza or Forest Hills, since most would transfer to the F at Essex. The J is often SRO by Myrtle Avenue. That would confuse passengers. There aren't many lines that go to totally different places on the weekend or nights. It either should go to Manhattan on it's normal route, or just leave it as the PITA shittle it is now. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:25:28 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Apr 11 20:35:42 2012. I can't account for recent years, but prior to Chrystie and for a few years after when there was both a through Nassau to Southern service along with trains terminating at Broad St, there were platform C/Rs to assist in fumigation. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:26:30 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:41:31 2012. Are you sure it wasn't a TT? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:32:21 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 08:37:52 2012. When I worked the road, the rule was that special services were not to be dropped. If a QB went bad on the stand at Stl, then an OK QJ (later M) was to have the signs changes and be used as the QB interval. The same was true at 95 St with the RR nassau specials. If a scheduled Nassau RR (called "RJ" by operating personnel after the original post Chrystie 4 AV/Nassau service) train went bad on the stand then a Bway RR was to be similarly converted to Nassau service which was easy at the time since all RRs were 8 X 60 ft cars at the time. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:33:55 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Apr 11 19:39:37 2012. Worry about the SAS if, and when it opens to 96th Street, okay? For now, send the "Q" to 21St/Queensbridge. Sometimes, we (myself included) talk about the SAS as if it were opening next week! Remember, 2016, for the SAS, if we are lucky! Extend the "Q" to 21 St at night and stop screwing the "E", "F", and "G" riders! |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:36:36 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:33:55 2012. If the Q went to 21 Zt at night it certainly would screw the F riders since the Q would have to change ends on the mainline in 21 St station. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:37:43 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Michael549 on Wed Apr 11 11:16:55 2012. During midnights when the 3 operates to T/Sq, the 2 runs local in Manhattan. |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:42:18 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 11:35:28 2012. During midnights and weekends when traffic is light, Js could turn on R1 track in Broad St station and return over the tail switch N/O the station like it did forma brief period in the early 1960s after midnight Culver service stopped operating. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:44:08 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:36:36 2012. I am talking about running the E and F through Queens Plaza at night. Before we had to endure this, "What are we gonna do with is 63rd st tunnel?" shellgame! right now, there is no nightime express service on Queens Blvd, right? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:50:14 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:44:08 2012. Right now, for the sake of consistency, it's better to leave the F on 63 St at all times. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:53:20 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:50:14 2012. And no night express service on the E or the F? That's real progress! |
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Posted by J trainloco on Thu Apr 12 18:00:09 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:53:20 2012. The marginal benefit from running the E and F express at night is outweighed by the negatives of having QB local riders served by the G. As it is, it's bad enough the F is express through 63rd: they should both run local during late night hours. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 18:14:55 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:44:08 2012. FTA told the TA they must run a full time service via 63rd to boost its usage, or forfeit past UMTA payments. Easiest thing to do was for them to run the V through. They could not. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Apr 12 18:48:15 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:33:55 2012. No, leave the F right where it is! What, you'd rather screw over Queensbridge and Roosevelt Island riders? By forcing them to backtrack to Times Square or Herald Square if they want to go further into Queens by sending and terminating the Q at Queensbridge? And for what? Because you think the Queens Blvd Line doesn't have enough service between midnight and 5 AM? Come on, now! If the E alone is not enough at the QB local stops late nights, then run the F local in Queens too. Or extend the G back to 71st Ave during late nights to supplement the E. But running the Q to 21st St and turning it there during late nights? No, sorry. That's not a good idea, 2nd Ave subway or no 2nd Ave Subway. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Apr 12 19:25:19 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:37:43 2012. Hi Randyo, you are actually right, there are very few midnight hour express routes running in Manhattan or the other boroughs. Since most of the Manhattan subway lines during the midnight hours are often reduced to all local service - I believe only the #3, D and Q trains run express midnight hours because those routes are easier to operate that way.Concerning the message that I was replying to, I really do not see a reason for the proposed all local midnight hour W-train, an express midnight hour N-train, and a midnight hour express Q-train. Something like that has not been a pattern of the MTA for a long time. Even during the 1970's before the rounds of fiscal crisis budget cuts, most of the Manhattan subway lines were reduced to one midnight hour local route, and a midnight hour express route. Only the Queens Blvd line had the full-time GG-train, and the midnight hour E and F express trains. Even the Brooklyn 4-th Avenue line was reduced to two lines, the N-train, the RR, and the B-shuttle train. Just my thoughts. Mike |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Apr 12 21:39:46 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:33:55 2012. If one believes the MTA ads on the subway, it sounds as though the full-length Second Avenue Subway is under construction right now and will open real soon. It will have benefits "from Brooklyn to the Bronx" so they claim. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 00:35:48 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Thu Apr 12 18:00:09 2012. they should both run local during late night hours.I agree 100%. But why do you say both should run local? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Apr 13 11:20:50 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:44:08 2012. Wrong. The F runs express on Queens Blvd late nights. Since the G was cut back to Court Square full time, the E provides all late-night local service on Queens Blvd. |
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What does this even have to do with Rush hour J to 9 Av |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Apr 13 11:58:19 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 11 17:52:53 2012. Just because it was done in "ye olden days" doesn't always mean it should be done today. You want to run BOTH the E and F express on QB late nights and bring back the G as the local? Talk about being screwed, because that's what you'd be doing to.QB local riders by putting the E back on the express tracks and bringing back the G as the late-night local. Riders from the local stops would have to transfer at Roosevelt or Queens Plaza from the G to the E if they want Manhattan under your idea. Given how long late-night headways are, your ideas are not going to fly like a lead balloon with not just QB riders, but also Queensbridge and Roosevelt Island riders who won't like your suggestion to bring back the Q and terminate it at 21st St.Also, how the hell did we go from extending the J to 9th Ave, BROOKLYN, during RUSH HOURS, to fixing what's not broken on the QUEENS Blvd line during LATE NIGHT HOURS? Can we get this thread back on topic, please? |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 12:18:28 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 00:35:48 2012. The marginal 5 to 10 minute time savings for riders at the end of the line is outweighed by the 20 minute time loss for riders at local stations. It's even worse now that the F runs through 63rd. |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 12:22:51 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 18:14:55 2012. So you're saying that if not for the FTA, the 63rd st tunnel would be closed nights and weekends? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 12:34:50 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 12:18:28 2012. The marginal 5 to 10 minute time savings for riders at the end of the line is outweighed by the 20 minute time loss for riders at local stations. It's even worse now that the F runs through 63rd.And 99% of the time, the F express is doing no more than 10 mph because there's a work gang out there. It loses so much time, it might as well go local for the needs of service. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 12:39:33 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 18:14:55 2012. I can't imagine closing 63rd/Lex at night. It's a stupid idea. So many doormen, office cleaning ladies, and service workers on the UES need that station. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 12:43:46 2012, in response to Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 6 14:18:09 2012. This would kill on-time-performance on the J.btw- Has M line OTP been published since it started going to Forest Hills? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 16:54:25 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 12:22:51 2012. It could have started that way. Roosevelt Island and 63/Lex are insufficient reasons to have it. |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 18:31:27 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 16:54:25 2012. It would also mean that 57/6th and 21st Queensbridge would be closed. I can't see NYCT, with their "24/7" operation doing this, especially when they were doing it for years when 63rd was a stub line to 21st street. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 18:52:38 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 18:31:27 2012. In today's world, they would have run a 2nd Ave - 21st Street shuttle to protect it when the M is out. |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 19:37:03 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 18:52:38 2012. Why would they do that? It would result in extra operating costs. The current service pattern is the best service pattern possible with existing infrastructure. The FTA may have pushed for a full-time service on 63rd, but i'm sure NYCTA came up with the current service pattern. |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Apr 13 20:41:46 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by J trainloco on Thu Apr 12 18:00:09 2012. Totally agreed. |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Apr 13 20:42:24 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 12:34:50 2012. Also true. If you're losing time anyway, at least make it productive. |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Apr 13 22:23:09 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Apr 13 12:43:46 2012. http://mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/120326_1000_Transit.pdf |
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Posted by grand concourse on Sat Apr 14 03:14:23 2012, in response to Re: Rush hour J to 9 Av, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Thu Apr 12 00:51:26 2012. Well obviously 4th av will have an overkill of service because it's the only place the Bay Ridge, Sea Beach and West End lines can run thru to get back to Manhattan.As bad as losing a direct connection from Brighton to 6th av is on weekends, the current set up is fine where there's a Broadway service for that part of Brooklyn while the F is 'a few blocks over'. I don't see how running the B would be good while scaling back D and Q service to accommodate it. |
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