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| (1134942) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by andy on Wed Jan 25 22:11:12 2012, in response to Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jan 25 21:18:02 2012. Euclid may be a terminal for the local trains and an express stop but it is really not a terribly busy station. It's not in a high density residential area like Forest Hills and doesn't have lots of feeder buses connecting like 179th St. Been there many times and it doesn't appear to be overcrowded. |
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| (1134944) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 25 22:21:22 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by andy on Wed Jan 25 22:11:12 2012. Not to mention, it's not under a wide Blvd like Queens Blvd. |
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| (1134949) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Wed Jan 25 22:49:08 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 25 22:21:22 2012. One other thing I noticed is that the Tile at all of the stations east of Broadway Jct up to Euclid have the same tile as 179 St. I figured that's because the Pitkin Stations opened in 1948 and 179st in 1950 and that was the type of tile made at that time. Grant ave is more like the tile they used in the late 50's when the orig 1904 Lex and Bwy/7th ave platforms were extended. |
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| (1134954) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 25 23:12:45 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by andy on Wed Jan 25 22:11:12 2012. The 179st platforms are too narrow IMO... they built too much crap on them.Since there's usually a train in the station people obviously don't wait on them very long, but the one time you really notice the cramped-ness is waiting for an E during the AM rush... a full crowd on that platform. |
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| (1134960) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 25 23:39:44 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by seabeachexpress on Wed Jan 25 22:49:08 2012. Use of fluorescent lights precluded the need to use the highly reflective, glossy white wall tiles seen in pre-1940 train stations. |
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| (1134973) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 26 06:36:22 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 25 23:12:45 2012. It's been years and years since I've been on Church Avenue IND but I seem to recall it's not that wide, and it was a terminal for decades.Am I misremembering? |
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| (1134977) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by andy on Thu Jan 26 07:45:51 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by seabeachexpress on Wed Jan 25 22:49:08 2012. Grant was built in 1956, so that's why the tiles look like the late 50s IRT station rebuilds. |
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| (1134985) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Thu Jan 26 08:47:17 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 26 06:36:22 2012. It was a terminal until the mid-1950s. |
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| (1134998) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 26 10:34:58 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by andy on Wed Jan 25 22:11:12 2012. I recall from my ute, Euclid was a terminal for some trains."A" trains had Far Rock, Lefferts and Euclid as destinations. Some "E" trains went to Rock Park or Euclid. All this was in the late Fifties and early sixties. A lot of people would get off a train from one of the far out stations and wait for a put in at Euclid Ave. I can recall some crowded platforms. avid |
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| (1135005) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 26 11:05:28 2012, in response to Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jan 25 21:18:02 2012. Hoyt -Schermerhorn and Jay St.-Boro Hall IND platforms are nice and wide, same for Queens Plaza.I guess to accommodate the riders changing Platforms. |
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| (1135012) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 26 12:42:47 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 26 06:36:22 2012. Oddly enough, 7th Ave is TOO wide, wider than stations far busier (especially Roosevelt Ave). |
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| (1135046) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 26 14:17:30 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by andy on Thu Jan 26 07:45:51 2012. Grant was probably started way before 1956 since it was fully finished and operational by April of 1956. |
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| (1135047) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 26 14:19:17 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 26 10:34:58 2012. When it first opened in 1948, Euclid was a terminal for A trains for 8 years until 1956 when the line opened to Lefferts. |
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| (1135062) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 15:18:50 2012, in response to Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jan 25 21:18:02 2012. Are you actually referring to the platform at Grant Ave? That one is narrow. I have not noticed that the platform at Euclid is more or less narrow than most IND express platforms, but some of the busier ones are wider than others.The whole of the IND system from the 1940's onward seems like a step backwards from a design point of view. It's like the ghost of the IRT designers rose up and demanded no full-length mezzanines, and center platform exits with only one way out. It's 1904 all over again. Grand St, is the worst offender. That busy station desperately needs a full length mezzanine and should have probably been built with an island platform. This station should have resembled 57th St. But instead it functions more like 23rd St, on the Lex. |
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| (1135064) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 26 15:36:26 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 15:18:50 2012. Grand St was originally intended to be an express stop on the SAS and what are now 2 outside platforms were intended to be 2 island platforms with the local tracks of the SAS on the outside. |
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| (1135067) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 16:41:44 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by randyo on Thu Jan 26 15:36:26 2012. I see.Thanks. |
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| (1135117) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 26 19:19:08 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 15:18:50 2012. understandable..but one must take into consideration the fact that Chrystie st and its connections are incomplete from a design/build standpoint. |
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| (1135143) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 26 21:17:51 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 15:18:50 2012. Grand St is only partly complete. It was supposed to be 2 island platforms when the Second Ave subway was supposed to come through there. The walls were supposed to be temporary, and were supposed to have two more tracks. |
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| (1135190) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:04:25 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 26 21:17:51 2012. FYI:there is nothing behind the walls at grand st.I saw the construction photos of it in the T.A.archieves a year or 2 ago.iirc,no trackwells either. |
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| (1135192) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:07:26 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:04:25 2012. What about Confucius Square, is there vacant tunnels there waiting for the SAS to catch up?avid |
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| (1135194) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:16:55 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:07:26 2012. 600 feet of them. |
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| (1135195) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:25:27 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:16:55 2012. About how far is it from the Grand ave. segment?I know Confucius is just south of the Manhattan Bridge, and Grand is just North. What is the actual separation? How far in blocks, feet, or mileage? |
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| (1135196) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:31:19 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:16:55 2012. 600 Ft? Is it a station shell? |
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| (1135197) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:32:50 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:16:55 2012. Are there two track ways, or room for a platform or two? |
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| (1135215) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 27 13:18:33 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 11:04:25 2012. Is there even any empty space behind the walls? |
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| (1135218) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 27 13:19:19 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:25:27 2012. I would estimate about 1/3 mile... |
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| (1135219) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 13:20:37 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Jan 26 15:18:50 2012. $$$$. Post WWII construction costs went up and available transit funding went DOWN. Some postwar stations have full length mezzanines (57th and 6th). |
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| (1135221) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 13:23:42 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 26 21:17:51 2012. There's nothing behind the walls at Grand. That design did exist in the 1947 plan, which had the more complex Christie St connection merging the Nassau St, 6th and new 2nd Ave lines. The connection was not included in the 1968 plan and the current design has a deep bored tunnel that would preclude it. Chrystie St was cut and cover construction, not politically feasible today, particularly now that there's a popular park right above the existing station. |
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| (1135222) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by grimace1169 on Fri Jan 27 13:24:41 2012, in response to Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Jan 25 21:18:02 2012. What always struck me as strange at Euclid was that it is not perfectly straight. It is crooked and I don't get why. The street is straight upstairs. |
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| (1135225) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Q4 on Fri Jan 27 13:35:06 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:31:19 2012. No, it is not a station shell, but a tunnel segment for the Second Avenue Subway that would have connected to the Grand St. Station on the local side (the walls of the side platforms would have been removed and the platform would have been made into center platforms).I don't believe the current plans for Phase IV of the Second Avenue Subway call for the use of this segment. |
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| (1135230) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 13:49:47 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Q4 on Fri Jan 27 13:35:06 2012. Last I heard they were going to bypass those segments. However, extending the SAS down there is a LONG way off. |
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| (1135233) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Jan 27 14:02:26 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 11:32:50 2012. 2 separate trackways, together at one end separated a concrete curtain wail; they start separating at the other end IIRC.--Mark |
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| (1135234) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 14:25:15 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 13:23:42 2012. The 2nd Ave connection was accounted for in the 1968 plan, and the spaces for the center trackways still exist. There probably isn't anything behind the station walls, but they do look kind of false, the way they don't quite fit in. Just saying... |
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| (1135240) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Jan 27 14:58:01 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jan 26 10:34:58 2012. Also, the (HH) shuttles started at Euclid Av in the opposite direction. They were usually labelled "Fulton St. Local".Bob |
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| (1135243) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 27 15:14:05 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by GIS Man on Fri Jan 27 14:58:01 2012. When the Rockaway Div first opened in 1956, shuttles carried either "A or "E signs depending on which through service was operating to the Rockaways at the time. When the late trainmaster George Abere was Rockaway Div M/M, he suggested to the then AGS of the Transportation Dept Leo Cusick that since neither shuttle was either a true A or E train that the HH/Fulton St Lcl signs unused since the cessation of the original HH service in 1946 be used. Mr Cusick agreed and sometime circa 1960, HH became the designation for the Rockaway Shuttles. The original HH/Fulton St Lcl was supposed to operate between Court St and ENY but only operated as a single track shuttle between Court and Hoyt from 1936 to 1946. Although some of the iND 1948 service guides which showed the IND operating to Euclid, showed the Court to ENY service, the shuttle was abandoned before the IND was even extended from Rockaway Av to ENY. |
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| (1135244) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 27 15:19:37 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 13:20:37 2012. The station shells between ENY and Euclid (76 St?) were built sometime between 1940 and the early part of 1942. The only station to get station finish prior to US involvement in WWII was ENY but no signals or tracks were installed until postwar. |
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| (1135246) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 15:25:52 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 27 13:18:33 2012. NO! |
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| (1135252) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 16:03:31 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 26 12:42:47 2012. I suspect the wideness of 7Th Ave is two fold.1) A transfer point between passengers for both, 6Th Ave, and 8Th Ave, and again for Uptown, and Queens. 2) to allow for a wide turn of 9o' to and from 8Th ave. |
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| (1135253) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Jan 27 16:16:39 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms, posted by grimace1169 on Fri Jan 27 13:24:41 2012. There are some supporting columns at Euclid as I recall.I believe some if not all of those columns are surrounded by tile. If that is the case, it would be in compliance with Fire Safety Regulations or Laws, if buildings are above the subways. That may account for the "Curves" in the tracks as they go from running under Pitkin Ave to under buildings. |
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| (1135258) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 16:45:49 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 14:25:15 2012. I've heard conflicting accounts about what's behind the walls of Grand St, but I've never seen anything concrete demonstrating anything actually was built behind it.A cross-platform transfer here from the B/D and the SAS would be incredibly useful. |
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| (1135262) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 16:54:48 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 16:45:49 2012. read my post,I saw the construction photos,nothing is built behind the walls. |
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| (1135286) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 17:58:15 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 16:45:49 2012. A cross-platform transfer here from the B/D and the SAS would be incredibly useful.Tell me about it! If they can get past the neighborhood issues, it means they won't have to carve out another station, and maybe another mezzanine, AND skip even more ADA compliance stuff like elevators/escalators from the new station. And the additional routing possibilities... |
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| (1135287) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 18:02:31 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by tunnelrat on Fri Jan 27 15:25:52 2012. YES! THERE IS!Of course the spaces are so small only cockroaches would love it, but they're there! 8-) |
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| (1135292) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 27 18:24:53 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 13:23:42 2012. The park was already there during the construction in the 1960s. |
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| (1135358) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 27 22:07:36 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 13:49:47 2012. "However, extending the SAS down there is a LONG way off."By the time the Second Avenue Subway gets to Grand Street, the plan will have changed a dozen more times, and it may not even go down Second Avenue any more, or we'll all be whizzing around with jet packs strapped to our backs and it will be irrelevant anyway. |
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| (1135363) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jan 27 22:21:45 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Jan 27 22:07:36 2012. they should build the short line from Grand to South ferry..at least it will provide a tie in to the 6th avenue line to lower Manhattan..something we don't have today. |
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| (1135373) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 23:41:59 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Edwards! on Fri Jan 27 22:21:45 2012. Maybe, MAYBE if the city and state can come up with the money. Maybe we need another bubble 8-). |
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| (1135388) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 28 03:02:20 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 27 23:41:59 2012. the city will only invest into something it might be able to make "money" from..just ask our mayor about the 7 west line.If we dont jump into building complete useable sections of the SAS..we might never get it. A smart plan would be the Chrystie st lines Grand st station directly to the tunnels at Pell st..then build the Water st subway downtown..connect that to the Montague tunnel connection formally used by the Nassau st line into Bklyn. Either route the line to the BMT South..or take advantage of the designs left over from the LOWER MANHATTAN ACCESS STUDY and route the train directly to the LIRR tunnel under Atlantic Avenue to Jamaica...and the Airport. |
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| (1135413) | |
Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jan 28 08:07:10 2012, in response to Re: Euclid Ave Platforms (Back to 1904 with Post-War IND), posted by Edwards! on Sat Jan 28 03:02:20 2012. I still believe they should use the Nassau line for the Downtown connection. It's an instant connection to Brooklyn through the underutilized Montague tunnel, and the severely underutilized Nassau line. With the M likely to remain on 6th Ave, the J has plenty of capacity to share the line with the SAS. They would just need to extend the platforms from Canal to Broad (assuming the line comes in between Bowery and Canal. The entire BMT had it's platforms extended, so I don't see why they couldn't do it at those 4 stations. |
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