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| Re: SEPTA to spend $100 million on PTC (unfunded federal mandate); other projects take hit (1142556) | |||
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Re: SEPTA to spend $100 million on PTC (unfunded federal mandate); other projects take hit |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Mar 2 11:24:39 2012, in response to Re: SEPTA to spend $100 million on PTC (unfunded federal mandate); other projects take hit, posted by J trainloco on Thu Mar 1 22:51:57 2012. I honestly can't believe some of the responses in this thread. Mike, I don't know what you do for a living now, or what you plan to do, but if you ever thought you might want to hold some sort of management position at a transit agency, or really any entity that provides a service that has a component of public safety, you'd better pray that the posts you just made never get seen by your superiors. You really think that one of the reasons we don't need PTC is because human lives are only worth about $2 million? That's not just wrong, it's downright disgusting.~2 million dollars is the Federally defined cost of a human life that is used to determine if a regulation is economically justified or not. If you can't compare costs to benefits when performing a risk analysis you are destined to make BAD DECISIONS. Money doesn't just fall from the sky. When you spend money on PTC that is money you canot spend on other things like grade crossing elimination, RoW fencing, improved service, healthcare benefits, etc, etc. If you choose to spend 100 million on something that statictically has almost a zero chance of saving ANY lives and don't spend the money on something that will save lives, YOU'VE KILLED PEOPLE. "Think of the children" not only kills people, it also makes daily life worse. Thinking that spending unlimited amounts of money to save small amounts of lives is right up there with thinking we can cut taxes and still pay for Grandma's medicare. OMFG, life involves hard choices and tradeoffs. Our education system and elected officials have for decades been failing to teach this important lesson. To address the issues, I don't see what the big deal is. PTC can be implemented in many ways, and once you're starting to get into cab signalling, PTC isn't that far behind. Its ironic that you are always railing against CBTC, yet it would be the cheapest way to implement a PTC system. It's also peculiar that while you rail against the cost of PTC, stating that collisions are rare, as Will points out, you seem to have no problem with FRA regulations that force added cost onto commuter rail procurements and disallow the mixing of light rail with heavy rail. Where's the outrage over that long standing 'unfunded mandate'? I rail against CTBC because CBTC isn't reliable and presents numerous security risks that signaling vendors aren't equipped to handle. Think cell phone vs land line and then which would you want running your train. The big deal with PTC is that 90% of its safety benefits can be realized with off the shelf cab signaling that is a proven technology and comparativly cheap. SEPTA has already been installing cab signals over its entire system. Additional complexity, that will serve little benefit, result in large costs (that will probably double from the 100m estimate), will have operational impacts when it breaks and will probably degrade the standard level of safety is in my opinion a bad idea. Regarding light vs heavy rail regulations I am in favor of safety, I just want smart safety. Safety that is achieved with the best bang for the buck. Making rolling stock that is crash resistant is the best way to fully secure rail vehicles in an environment with freight trains, grade crossings, industrial sidings, etc. It's a fixed cost that requires no ongoing mantainence and protects from ALL types of collision, not just running through a stop signal. Also, I believe that most heavy rail solutions are far cheaper than modern "light rail" Go compare the RiverLINE with something CMSL Tony could cook up with RDCs. The big argument against this is because it's an 'unfunded mandate'. So what? Unfunded mandates have been around for quite some time, and they serve to protect the public from interests that only care about the bottom line. Things like requiring drivers licenses, fall protection rules on construction sites or provisions of MSDS's are all 'unfunded mandates' that most rational people would agree we all need. That has never been my argument. PTC is just a bad idea, full stop. It would be more rational for SEPTA to set the money on fire or give it to Greece. |
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