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| Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead (1365313) | |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 09:47:35 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 01:05:31 2016. But it is more likely to subvert the will of the people. If anything, your scenario is highly unlikely. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 10 09:55:19 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 09:40:17 2016. Compared to the period November 7, 2000 to December 12, 2000, in which there was no established process at all and everyone was playing it by ear, a 3-week period with a Constitution-established process would be no big deal at all. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:32:26 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 09:47:35 2016. You haven't been paying enough attention to the news. 😉 There is a possibility of a dangerous demagogue getting into the White House. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:33:32 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:32:26 2016. Democracy is fine unless someone you hate may win. Then it's whatever works. But if it were done to your candidate... |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:34:50 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:33:32 2016. It was, not so long ago. We barely survived it. We don't need worse, especially since we're still recovering from the last one. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:37:13 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by AlM on Tue May 10 09:55:19 2016. There is an established process. The Constitution provides for the election to go to the House of Representatives.If the House was Democratic you can bet your bottom the Democrats would have made sure it went there. But with a GOP-controlled House there were even people who were suggesting that maybe Clinton could have stayed on for a while... Find THAT in the Constitution. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:38:56 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:34:50 2016. Oh, you mean when the demagogue Obama was elected and decided to ignore the other branches. It even looks like we may survive that. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:43:08 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 9 18:44:05 2016. The US was essentially a one party country from 1933-1953.No, it wasn't. The GOP was unpopular but not suppressed. A "one-party government" means you only have one party. A weak or weakened opposition isn't the same as no opposition. That is what the dude in The Nation was fantasizing. And how to achieve that. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:44:42 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:38:56 2016. Nope. President Obama has done quite well getting us out of the mess bush left, despite the continuing opposition of the RWers. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:46:51 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 10 02:26:45 2016. Instead of reading the pundits (kudos to you for avoiding them if you can) some people should read 1984, not as a fantasy totalitarian state, but as a recipe for ensuring one-party rule. Remember, Goldstein and all notwithstanding, BB wins in the end. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:47:45 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:44:42 2016. If Obama had done "quite well" there would be no danger of a Trump presidency. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 10 10:47:59 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 9 21:52:41 2016. The outcome was determined in greater degree by SCOTUS, which should have refused the case, IMO. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:52:00 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:47:45 2016. Trump is proving that rich white guys have no business in government.He hasn't a clue as to how government works. He hasn't a rational and/or coherent policy. All he has is insult and bigotry. He's the product of thirty years of RW hatespeak media. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 10:56:02 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 10:32:26 2016. And if he does, the electoral college will not stop him. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 10:58:29 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:47:45 2016. Clinton did "quite well" and yet Bush still came close enough to win 5-4. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:59:29 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 10 10:47:59 2016. SCOTUS should have refused the case and left the Election Process in chaos because they didn't rule the way you wanted. If there was one more liberal on the court I imagine you would be saying they had the wisdom of the ages. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:00:57 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:43:08 2016. Did you actually read his Op-Ed? Clearly not. He is lamenting the supposed fall of the Republican Party. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:02:54 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:46:51 2016. Again, that has nothing to do with "one party rule." It's a part of totalitarian dictatorship. You don't need any parties for that. You can even have a second party as the government uses it show falsely that elections are competitive. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:03:46 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 10:58:29 2016. Because people looked at Gore and didn't see Clinton. They saw someone they didn't particularly like or trust.In 1988 GHWB won by arguing that he would be a "kinder, gently" Reagan. But that kind of transference rarely works. Plus look who HW's opponent was in 1988. At least, he should never have ridden in that tank... |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:03:47 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 10 10:47:59 2016. No, it wasn't. Had the Electoral College been entirely abolished, Gore would have won outright. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:05:28 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:59:29 2016. They did not make it any less chaotic by taking it. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:06:52 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:03:46 2016. So how do you figure that Trump's rise is based on Obama's alleged failure? |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:07:09 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:03:47 2016. It wouldn't have been the same election if there were no Electoral College. Election strategy runs on the rules in existence. Popular vote is highly susceptible to manipulation, which is one reason we have the Electoral College. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:08:21 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:07:09 2016. How is susceptible to manipulation? |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:09:55 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:07:09 2016. Popular vote is highly susceptible to manipulation, which is one reason we have the Electoral College.Huh? Isn't it the uncertainty of the popular vote in FL that caused the whole problem in 2000? If there had been no uncertainty about that, there would have been no uncertainty about the 2000 election. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:11:15 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 10:56:02 2016. Fact is, they can. And they should (please read http://www.subchat.com/otchat/read.asp?Id=1365574). There's apparently a motherlode of reasons for them to.The founders put the Electors in there for this very reason. They did not trust the general public to make a good decision. Although this worked in revese in 2000, this time around I hope everything functions as designed. Plus hopefully, we have enough sane people getting out to vote come November to stop this. We really must. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:13:13 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:11:15 2016. You're not listening. They won't. The Republican electors WILL vote for Trump. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:13:58 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:08:21 2016. Donald Trump is one party's persumed nominee. If that doesn't say it all, there simply is no saying it at all. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:14:00 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:06:52 2016. Because someone as populist as Trump couldn't rise against a more successful government and a more content electorate. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:15:14 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:13:13 2016. Thye are not legally bound to. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:16:39 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:05:28 2016. They did, because they put a badly needed finality to it. The Constitution contemplated inconclusive elections, but they it didn't contemplate a lawyered election. Since it was turned into a playground for lawyers, the Supreme Court was the logical end-game. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:17:04 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:14:00 2016. He's a minority candidate. He has a plurality of one third of the electorate. That's not much. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:17:48 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:13:58 2016. You prefer candidates who promise to roll back the seas and bring hope and change and other solid policies. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:19:51 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:09:55 2016. Elections almost never come down to a single state. If the Presidential election was done by nationwide popular you'd see the chaos in Florida in the entire nation if the vote was close. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:21:07 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:17:04 2016. Then you should relax. There's no chance in him winning against Hillary, the People's Choice, is there? |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:22:58 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:19:51 2016. But the chance of a close election nationwide is way lower than the chance of a close election in a single state.In our entire history, we have never had an election where the popular vote winner nationwide is still being disputed by people who aren't certifiably insane. On the other hand, there are still relatively sane people who dispute the popular vote winner in Illinois in 1960, as one example. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:23:54 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:21:07 2016. Um |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:27:07 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:22:58 2016. Yes, there are. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:29:16 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:02:54 2016. One party rule encourages totalitarianism. It makes it much more difficult to have any cohesive dissent.Like North Korea. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:32:11 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:29:16 2016. You are confusing cause and effect. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:35:15 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 11:00:57 2016. I have been mainly talking about The Nation article calling for the total destruction of the GOP, and the means to achieve that.We're a little far from the OP. That said, I always have a healthy suspicion of any person who comes forth talking about how "totally committed I am to my party since the dawn of time, but this is too much." It's like the credibility of commercials where someone says "at first I was skeptical about Dr. Quack's cure for male impotence, but now I am 100% a believer." |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:36:05 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:32:11 2016. Yes, Professor Al. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 10 11:50:03 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 10:59:29 2016. No, SCOTUS should have refused the case because the Constitution already has a framework for resolving Presidential elections. IIRC, there was considerable controversy over the Court's involvement with the 2000 election. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:56:50 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 10 11:50:03 2016. And that framework for resolving Presidential elections was not used. It became a lawyer-fest so the highest Judicial Court in the land was the appropriate venue. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 12:25:11 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:17:48 2016. I prefer candidates that aren't going to start a global thermonuclear war. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 12:26:59 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:21:07 2016. If he's on the ballot, there is a chance. Les than one percent is too much chnace where the ability to start a global thermonuclear war is concerned. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 12:28:04 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:14:00 2016. Obama could have balanced the budget, cured cancer and given everyone a well-paying job. The Trumpenproletariat would still hate him. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 12:28:59 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by bingbong on Tue May 10 11:15:14 2016. So what? They still will.And you're wrong. Many of them are. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 12:30:01 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by SLRT on Tue May 10 11:16:39 2016. Failing to grant it certiorari would have put a similar finality on it. |
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Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 10 12:31:31 2016, in response to Re: Op-Ed The Republican Party is dead, posted by AlM on Tue May 10 11:32:11 2016. Exactly. North Korea is not a one party state because the people always elect the one party, it's a one party state because other parties are banned. |
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