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Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 7 16:33:07 2012

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/05/07/white-house-gay-marriage-dance/

Nathan?

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(939378)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 7 17:11:52 2012, in response to Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 7 16:33:07 2012.

Lack of authority to make it happen.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by monorail on Mon May 7 19:36:05 2012, in response to Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 7 16:33:07 2012.

He's saving it for a re-election vote!

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon May 7 19:44:57 2012, in response to Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 7 16:33:07 2012.

Chris?

Obama has publicly supported the repeal of the Defense Of Marriage Act (DOMA).

More than once during his Presidency.

On, and by the way, President Obama has, in fact, told me personally, twice, that he supports LGBT equality. I even wrote about it last year, and linked that article here.



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(G00GLE)

Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity


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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:15:14 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 7 17:11:52 2012.

Obama is on record only a year ago stating that his personal opinion is that marriage is between a man and a woman. He said that he struggles with it and that his opinion is evolving or something like that.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 7 20:17:31 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:15:14 2012.

More Black people than White people are against it. Blacks have a much harder time accepting it than whites do, in general.
That said, Obama's real opinion is what he originally said, he just has to play PC to his base, so has no choice but to swallow his real opinion on it.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 7 20:29:59 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 7 20:17:31 2012.

I doubt that.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 20:32:34 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 7 20:17:31 2012.

Why? It is perfectly acceptable for Obama to be personally uncomfortable with gay relationships or gay marriage. On the other hand, the Obama administration has refused to defend the Defense of Marriage Act. Intelligent people can understand that something can be right, even though their prejudices, largely the result of their upbringing, tell them otherwise.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:38:13 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 20:32:34 2012.

What about his upbringing do you think led to him not being totally accepting of gay marriage? Something in Hawaii or Indonesia?

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:43:22 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 7 20:17:31 2012.

Aside from social programs and welfare most black people have much more in common ideologically with conservatives than liberals. IMO of course.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 7 20:54:44 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:43:22 2012.

Yes. Religion for one thing. In general, Blacks seem to be much more religious than whites, at least with many of the Blacks I know.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 7 21:01:27 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:38:13 2012.

What about his upbringing do you think led to him not being totally accepting of gay marriage? Something in Hawaii or Indonesia?

No, it has to do with being 50 or over as opposed to 30 or younger.

My standing on the issue has also evolved over time but more quickly than Obama's because I'm under 45.


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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:11:47 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 20:32:34 2012.

You are correct. it's perfectly acceptable for an extremist liberal president to be against gay rights when it comes to "Same Sex Marriage". I also appreciate the fact that everyone in the obama administration supports the president's position.






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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 21:18:49 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:11:47 2012.

Sorry. You lose. (Again)

Personally uncomfortable with doesnít translate to being against. Obama, the heterosexual man, understands and recognizes that his learned prejudices might be against what is right and fair.

Steven Kreisler, OTOH, doesnít seem to care.

BTW: would you care to explain to me the meaning of the word nuance?

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:29:01 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 21:18:49 2012.

Would you care to explain the meaning of the phrase, "FUCK YOU , JOHN LISTER"

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:30:49 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:43:22 2012.

So most then vote against their own interests.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 21:48:25 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:29:01 2012.

Sorry. You lose. (Again)

Would you care to explain the meaning of the phrase, "FUCK YOU , JOHN LISTER"

Absolutely. If the aliens ever came down to search for intelligent life on Earth and encounter you, they would come to the negative conclusion.

Look. According to my information and sources, you were pretty good at managing a repair shop for the MTA. Why donít you use your intelligence to recognize that your personal experience has been limited. Have you ever been homeless? Have you ever been out of work with no prospect of employment?

If the answers are both ďnoĒ, donít pride yourself on being better than someone else. How about having compassion for another person whose circumstances are worse than yours, or who was betrayed by the education system.

You know if you and I could find 10% compassion, I bet we could meet in the middle.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:51:04 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:30:49 2012.

To some extent, but not really. Only at the state or national level really.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:55:30 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 7 21:01:27 2012.

I can see that. I've waffled waffled myself and I doubt that I'll never be as accepting as my kids are. As far as I can tell they see no difference between gay and straight relationships other than that gays are still discriminated against.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:56:27 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 21:48:25 2012.

If you think attacking me personally every time you disagree with a point I make is going to lead to a friendly meeting of the minds, then your sources have certainly betrayed you.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 7 22:07:30 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:15:14 2012.

However, that he has refused to enforce DOMA means that he won't defend it at the federal level.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:09:55 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:51:04 2012.

But we are now discussing the national level. I think that , without looking for hard data, that blacks have suffered disproportionately in the job market over the last 3+ years. Voting for obama will only bring about 4 more years of the same.

For me - it's about the same. Romney or Obama - neither is going to affect my life much outside of obamacare issues but I do have 4 grand children who will inherit the chaos and debt left in the wake of the obama presidency. Some of my very close friends' children (black and white) are dealing with the fallout of the national job market, housing market and economy in general. At this point we can only hope that a Romney Presidency will begin to reverse the damage already done by the obama presidency.

The People who embrace the socialist concept of obama's "The Life of Julia" will be betrayed in the end. If everyone wants to ride in the cart then there will be no one to pull the cart. Such is the downfall of socialism. So is it the fallacy of the obama presidency.





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(939501)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 7 22:14:04 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 7 22:07:30 2012.

He enforces DOMA. He has no choice.

he doesn't defend challenges to it in court.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:17:21 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 21:56:27 2012.

You know you should read that advice many times, and then take it to heart personally.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:23:33 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:17:21 2012.

And let me elaborate: You are correct. it's perfectly acceptable for an extremist liberal president to be against gay rights when it comes to "Same Sex Marriage".

Itís difficult to have an intelligent debate when you intentionally misuse adjectives. Obama is no extremist. We can debate liberal. And trying to be sarcastic about the issue doesnít help.

I repeat: you say you are intelligent. Try and have a nuanced debate. There are questions. There are a lot of Americans who are uncomfortable with the issue because of their upbringing. Iím not saying this because I want them to die, but the statistical fact is true: they are older and dying. The younger generation, at least as far as I have found it in the academia of Rutgers, New Jersey, by and large doesnít care.

You can have the gut feelings that you like. I can have the gut feelings I like. But I acknowledge that it doesnít matter. In the long term itís the 20-somethings who will win.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:26:07 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:17:21 2012.

I respond in kind. I do not make personal attacks until attacked. Read my previous response to you very carefully, John.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:30:57 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:26:07 2012.

And read mine. I donít attack you. I attack what you write. The fact that you apparently fail at sustaining an argument and have to resort to inane epithets against the duly elected President is your problem, not mine.

If you want to have a reasoned debate, have one. But donít cop out and resort to name-calling.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:40:24 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:30:57 2012.

"Steven Kreisler, OTOH, doesnít seem to care. = personal attack. Not a cop out. My view that obama is a moron is as valid as Smaz's that he's the best president in 60 years. You and I are past the reasonable debate stage.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 7 22:52:46 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:40:24 2012.

Someone who spews garbage like this doesn't typically do "reasonable".

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:55:39 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:55:30 2012.

Which is where Iím seeing college studentsí (at least at Rutgers, which is probably representative) opinions.

Bottom line: You and I, and whomever else, can feel uncomfortable, but it doesnít change the inevitable.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 7 23:07:47 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 22:55:39 2012.

There really ARE more important things for people to be concerned with ... glad to see that the up and coming realize that at least ...

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 23:18:48 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 7 22:52:46 2012.

Of course Mr. Lister views himself very differently than other people see him. Reason is relative as are measured responses.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 23:22:55 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 7 22:52:46 2012.

Call it as much garbage as you like. But refute it with evidence.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 7 23:27:18 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 23:22:55 2012.

Who am I to argue with your people's God?

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 23:27:41 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 7 23:07:47 2012.

Youíre giving them more credit than they deserve.

More to the point: itís youíre straight/gay/something in between, so what?

Beer (underage, thanks Reagan!) tonight atÖ

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 23:41:42 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 7 23:27:18 2012.

Weíre getting off track here. As far as I know, and feel free to contradict me here, there is no proof of a deity. On the other hand there is no proof that contradicts a deity either.

Barring evidence to the contrary, Iím happy to accept the possibility that there was something (deity if you like) that determined the rules and then set the universe in motion. For those of us who understand physics, there is an interesting balance between certain physical constants that determine the behavior of the universe that make us go ďHmmĒ.

But if you live your life by the rules of a deity of whom you have no evidence about its existence, you really have no business demanding higher burdens of proof of someone else.

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(939542)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 7 23:47:31 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 23:27:41 2012.

Heh. True, but my point is that among the younger folks, there's more important issues to their minds than "Adam and Steve."

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Tue May 8 00:21:07 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Train Dude on Mon May 7 22:09:55 2012.

So now we have an inkling into the prejudice and lack of information that propel your posts:

I think that , without looking for hard data, that blacks have suffered disproportionately in the job market over the last 3+ years. Voting for Obama will only bring about 4 more years of the same.

Canít disagree. That is your opinion. Unsupported by facts. But you have worked so hard on this opinion over the last few years that you are entitled to it.

For me - it's about the same. Romney or Obama - neither is going to affect my life much outside of Obamacare issuesÖ For the moment, probably. But if Romneycare hits and you are reduced to vouchers that donít cover the cost of your increasingly expensive medical bills as you get older, then donít come back and blame me.

The People who embrace the socialist concept of Obama's "The Life of Julia" will be betrayed in the end.

Julia as a presentation is absolutely flawed. Not because it is wrong. But because it de-emphasizes the times when Julia, the productive earner, who is more productive because society invested in her childhood and education, is contributing taxes. Both to her retirement and to the next generation.

If we assume that the loans/subsidies presented in the slide show are correct, then Julia benefited when she needed, and contributed when she could. Tell me what is wrong with this picture?



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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by JohnL on Tue May 8 00:31:05 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 7 23:47:31 2012.

Exactly. And the issue will be carried by some large minority who care, opposed by a small, but vociferent minority, who should know that they were going to lose.

Amongst the majority, it will be a non-issue, because it will have become a ďduh?!Ē issue.

QED

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Train Dude on Tue May 8 00:48:53 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Tue May 8 00:21:07 2012.

John, I guess you didn't get the message. You and I are beyond serious discussion.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by TonyG on Tue May 8 00:55:43 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:55:30 2012.

That's my view.

Then again I've got a number of gay and lesbian friends so my exposure to those relationships (and seeing how they in fact -are- essentially like straight relationships) has influenced my view on it.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by AlM on Tue May 8 08:32:31 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 7 22:52:46 2012.

What is garbage about that post? Judaism, like Christianity, is a faith, not a scientific theory.



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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:10:20 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 7 21:01:27 2012.

Please....its also beacause he is half black....and blacks are less accepting of gays than whites are....in general.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:11:29 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 20:32:34 2012.

I see. So if Obama says it...itching ts because of "his upringing"...but if a republican would say it....hes a bigot.

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:13:00 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 21:55:30 2012.

I think its a little like how people were outraged over inter racial marriage years back...npw it sounds silly

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(939633)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 8 13:16:41 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:13:00 2012.

By "people" did you mean, like, them people . . . ?

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(939639)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 8 13:26:39 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by JohnL on Mon May 7 20:32:34 2012.



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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 8 13:27:40 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by Easy on Mon May 7 20:38:13 2012.

What does it matter? No Republican gets a pass from the pro-gay marriage lobby because of "upbringing".

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(939645)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 8 13:33:39 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:10:20 2012.

LOL!

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(939646)

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Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 8 13:38:21 2012, in response to Re: Why won't Obama embrace marriage equity, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue May 8 13:10:20 2012.

No, it's because he's a Democrat. He can pander to social conservatives with the knowledge that the liberal media won't attack him for it. Republicans would be attacked as homophobes if they vacillate on the issue.

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