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(925392)

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Re: noitan dlrow driht a si SU eht ,erachtlaeh yrotadnam nwod setov truoC emerpuS eht fI

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 13:53:05 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 07:35:32 2012.

+∞

(925408)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Fri Mar 30 14:08:51 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:31:31 2012.

I guess it's off to Alberta for you.

(925413)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Fri Mar 30 14:16:41 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by bingbong on Fri Mar 30 10:35:32 2012.

Can you show me exactly where in Ryan's budget plan it says anything about starving sick children? I mean seriously, do you think that any but the psychotic like streetcarmonkeyfucker1 and scambledbrainship actually believe the shit you are peddling?

(925415)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:17:09 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 11:05:53 2012.

Correct also....but again thats not whats happening here. They are stretching it to try and make something they want happen.

(925419)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:19:06 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by bingbong on Fri Mar 30 11:16:42 2012.

Thats not what the commerce clause is for. Theres no constitutional basis for a mandate. Again..just because tthey want this doesnt mean its a poer given the federal govt. States howver have the right to do so as its not a federal allowable power.

(925424)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 30 14:22:26 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by bingbong on Fri Mar 30 11:16:42 2012.

General Welfare and Commerce are two separate clauses. The GW clause has plenty of precedent which would argue against the mandate being constitutional. The Commerce clause argument is exactly the opposite, as there's no precedent for this and would fundamentally re-define what it means should the mandate be upheld.

(925426)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by ClearAspect on Fri Mar 30 14:24:15 2012, in response to If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:16:23 2012.

If the health care landmark is thrown out, its back to the drawing board, but for the Health Care Industry they money they've already invested into getting ready for HCR would be all for nothing. However this wouldn't mean the end of the reform, if Obama wins re-election he's a lame duck president, with nothing to lose, he can push HCR and hammer it down with nothing to fear. Just because the current version is dead doesn't mean HCR is dead.

(925427)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:26:05 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 30 06:22:25 2012.

Good post.

(925429)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Mar 30 14:28:00 2012, in response to If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:16:23 2012.

iawtp

(925430)

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Re: noitan dlrow driht a si SU eht ,erachtlaeh yrotadnam nwod setov truoC emerpuS eht fI

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 14:28:29 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:19:06 2012.

Theres no constitutional basis for a mandate

The very notion of a mandate might even violate the 13th Amendment, on top of that.

(925431)

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Re: noitaN dlroW drihT a si SU eht ,erachtlaeh yrotadnam nwod setov truoC emerpuS eht fI

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 14:29:15 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 30 06:22:25 2012.

He might be immune.

(925434)

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Re: Re: noitan dlrow driht a si SU eht ,erachtlaeh yrotadnam nwod setov truoC emerpuS eht fI

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 14:30:41 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 30 14:22:26 2012.

"General Welfare" isn't even in the Constitution as an article; it's in the preamble. Mandates are against general welfare anyhow, since they are debt slavery.

(925435)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Fri Mar 30 14:32:27 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:19:06 2012.

If it were as clear-cut as bing-bong thinks, then there would be no disagreement in the lower courts and the supreme court deciding the issue would not be necessary. Of course, and I'm sure this will surprise no one, bing-bong is wrong again.

(925436)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by The Silence on Fri Mar 30 14:32:43 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by bingbong on Fri Mar 30 12:22:54 2012.

subject recorrected back to where is should be.

Our country has functioned well for decades without government mandated healthcare eatting a giant hole in the budget, why is it all of a sudden it's the end of the world if we don't have it?

We don't NEED it. would it be a nice idea, maybe, but it's a want, not a need.

I will pay for my healthcare. I am willing to help pay for someone who it is impossible for them to pay. but to pay for everyone for no reason other that "we say so" is bullshit.

(925438)

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Re: noitan dlrow driht a si SU eht ,erachtlaeh yrotadnam nwod setov truoC emerpuS eht fI

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 14:32:55 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Mar 30 13:46:31 2012.

Thirteenth Amendment . . .

(925447)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 15:10:21 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by ClearAspect on Fri Mar 30 14:24:15 2012.

Most people arent against reform...just this monstrosity.

(925448)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 15:13:33 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by The Silence on Fri Mar 30 14:32:43 2012.

Its amazing...people will spend money to maintain their cars...their homes....their businesses...but when it comes to their own bodies.....it 'should' all be free. I hear people complain when they have a $25 copay at the doctor. Its absurd.

(925461)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Mar 30 16:02:49 2012, in response to If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:16:23 2012.

Shaddup.

(925472)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 30 16:47:36 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by TonyG on Fri Mar 30 09:38:27 2012.

Out here, "gun control" means only putting a bullet where you aimed. It's not difficult to control your gun AND your temper here. :)

(925473)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 30 16:50:13 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 15:13:33 2012.

???

What on earth are you talking about?

The reason for everyone having health insurance is so that people aren't financially ruined by a $100,000 hospital bill.

My wife and I have health insurance from my employer. Last year we paid about $7,000 in medical expenses. That's a lot but it can't be helped. I don;t expect my employer to pay everything. But I am very grateful that if something really bad happened, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, the insurance would pick up most of it.



(925479)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 30 17:05:20 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 30 12:48:10 2012.

In all sincerity, had we spent the money two years ago, we'd already be climbing out fast and furious and kicking down that debt already. People who don't have money can't "economy." :(

(925505)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 17:50:11 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 15:13:33 2012.

people will spend money to maintain their cars

Not in every state. You heard of free cars in MA, right? (Even PA gives free cars to welfare moms.)

(925513)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 30 18:14:06 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 30 16:50:13 2012.

Of course. But again, it shouldn't be a government mandate.
I don't disagree with you at all. But that doesn't change the fact that I have OFTEN heard people complain about a $25 copay at the doctor's office. I mean really.

(925515)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Mar 30 18:15:34 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 17:50:11 2012.

I don't agree with that, but states have the right to do that, unlike the federal government. For all things not mentioned in the constitution as a federal government power, yet not barred by the federal government is left for a power to the states.

(925525)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 30 18:24:41 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 17:50:11 2012.

I take it you've never donated an older car when it still works and you've replaced it? It's not like these states pick up "clients" and take them down to the Lexus dealership and even install wheel trim for them. Can't you righties EVER stop lying?

(925526)

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Re: Canada Eliminates Penny

Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Mar 30 18:25:31 2012, in response to Re: Canada Eliminates Penny, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 07:39:02 2012.

If it were up to you every medical issue would be like that fumbled panic over that last flu whatever it was called.
The one where the gov't ordered the wrong formula, ordered too little, and it was a weaker flu than any other lately.

NO THANK YOU. Anyone who wants that #%@# mandatory can put it in their own butts.

(925531)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, We'll go single payer

Posted by Rockparkman on Fri Mar 30 18:36:50 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 17:50:11 2012.

Son of a WHORE and a MONKEY, WE +WILL+ DESTROY the FASCUST insurance companies and put their SCAB NON UNION ASSociates ON THE STREET where they belong and GERMANY will rule Europe AND THE UK because that's better than having RUSSIA run things.


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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, We'll go single payer

(925568)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by bingbong on Fri Mar 30 19:30:23 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 14:19:06 2012.

LIke it or not, since it isn't nationalized or single payer, healthcare IS commerce. It's 20% of the economy. That surely qualifies it for national-level regulation. WTF do you *think* commerce IS?

(925570)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 19:35:45 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 30 11:56:18 2012.

Canada and Japan are a lot farther from totalitarianism than the US is right now.

(925571)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 19:36:19 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes up mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by The Silence on Fri Mar 30 14:32:43 2012.

Someone needs to kick you in your neocon head.

(925572)

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Re: Canada Eliminates Penny

Posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 19:38:14 2012, in response to Re: Canada Eliminates Penny, posted by SLRT on Fri Mar 30 09:06:47 2012.

No. He napalmed the chances that the US could lean to the left like the rest of the Free World. He did for progressivism what economic depressions did for the NHL in Atlanta, all we need is for Canada to take over some states.

(925671)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 31 01:44:57 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Train Dude on Fri Mar 30 14:16:41 2012.

bump

(925693)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 31 07:39:56 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:31:31 2012.

LOL!!! Google "Homeless Vancouver". Canada has a HUGE homeless problem too.

(925710)

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Re: Canada Eliminates Penny

Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 31 09:53:10 2012, in response to Re: Canada Eliminates Penny, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 19:38:14 2012.

You think communism in the U.S. wasn't tainted before McCarthy? You see, there was this little Stalin problem...

(926224)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 1 10:30:28 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Mar 30 10:40:54 2012.

Its not a tax though. Its a mandate to purchase something.

False.
I pay a much steeper tax for not purchasing an electric vehicle and so do you.
I bet you didn't know there is an electric car mandate.

It's a tax as I've said since this thing was being debated.

(926225)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 1 10:37:11 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 30 10:51:21 2012.

Just stay out of NYC then.


No, he should come to NY and challenge its tyrannical gun laws.

TonyG doesn't give up his fundamental constitutional rights of citizenship when he crosses into a different US State.

(926226)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 10:40:10 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 1 10:30:28 2012.

They should have worded the health care legislation the same way. Increase taxes on everyone, and then give a tax credit for having insurance.




(926228)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 1 10:46:01 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 10:40:10 2012.

Yes, they should have.

(926237)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 1 11:05:31 2012, in response to If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Scrabbleship on Fri Mar 30 06:16:23 2012.

I suppose that if the vote goes the other way then they won't be 9 old conservatives any more. My belief is that they come back and vote the way I believe that they should, then that's great. However, if they vote contrary to my beliefs, then I was wrong and I'll have to accept the ruling as constitutional. That's how it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, for small-minded extremists like you and bing-bong, its either your way or the rest of the world is wrong. You make yourselves very very miserable in life that way and that couldn't please me more.

(926243)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 11:16:40 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 1 11:05:31 2012.

Many people on the right and the left are selective about their faith in the Supreme Court. You've given many examples on the left.

But on the right we have the huge number of people who won't accept Roe v Wade, Kelo v New London, or the Voting Rights Act as being the law of the land either.



(926249)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 1 11:23:38 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 11:16:40 2012.

I've given two (of many) as examples of extremism on the left who will not accept the Supreme Court decision if it goes conservative. If you deem it necessary, feel free to name those who you believe will not accept a more liberal ruling on the Commerce Clause as it is applied to the Affordable Healthcare Act.

(926255)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 11:30:00 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 1 11:23:38 2012.

I don't deem it necessary. I never know what people who post here truly think. I'm agreeing that the problem you identify (people who don't accept the law of the land) exists but pointing out the problem exists on both sides of the spectrum.



(926284)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Apr 1 12:06:27 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 1 11:30:00 2012.

If that was your point, that is all well and good. However, my point was that I think that those of a more conservative leaning will accept a liberal ruling with a bit more grace than those on the left will should the ruling lean conservatively. We've already seen several examples of liberal anger in anticipation of a conservative outcome. Already, supreme court justices are being vilified and we hear the distant chant of "Nazi" in the wings. Perhaps I'm listening selectively but I don't hear similar coming from the conservative side of the OTChat isle - meanwhile we all await the ruling.

(926448)

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Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Apr 1 20:20:54 2012, in response to Re: If the Supreme Court votes down mandatory healthcare, the US is a Third World Nation, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Mar 30 07:50:06 2012.

"We already have mandatory healthcare" Show me the proff!!!!

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