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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 24 20:01:39 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 19:16:02 2011. Christians don't have to follow the Torah. |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 20:25:20 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 24 20:01:39 2011. I know that Christians don't but should they? Didn't Jesus? |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Dec 24 20:33:10 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 20:25:20 2011. Wasn't Jesus Jewish? |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 20:35:35 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Dave on Sat Dec 24 20:33:10 2011. As far as I know. So what am I missing? I'm wondering where in the New Testament does it say that Jewish laws don't have to be followed? Which parts of the Old Testament do Christians consider superfluous? I didn't find a good answer in 5 minutes of googling. |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Dec 24 22:08:47 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 20:35:35 2011. Only the Jews accepted the Torah so there is no imperative for a non-Jew to eat only kosher food. Non-Jews who follow the Seven Laws of Noah are considered Righteous Gentiles. The laws are:Prohibition of Idolatry Prohibition of Murder Prohibition of Theft Prohibition of Sexual immorality Prohibition of Blasphemy Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive Establishment of courts of law The Jewish Encyclopedia: New Testament — Spirit of Jewish Proselytism in Christianity states: "For great as was the success of Barnabas and Paul in the heathen world, the authorities in Jerusalem insisted upon circumcision as the condition of admission of members into the church, until, on the initiative of Peter, and of James, the head of the Jerusalem church, it was agreed that acceptance of the Noachian Laws — namely, regarding avoidance of idolatry, fornication, and the eating of flesh cut from a living animal — should be demanded of the heathen desirous of entering the Church." By many interpretations, Acts and the Pauline Epistles make clear that the Jewish dietary laws as a whole are not binding on gentile Christians. |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Dec 24 22:46:33 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Dave on Sat Dec 24 22:08:47 2011. Thanks. I guess that they should just remove Leviticus from the bible. |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 25 01:05:59 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Dave on Sat Dec 24 22:08:47 2011. Only the Jews accepted the TorahEh? |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Dec 25 07:25:43 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 25 01:05:59 2011. According to a story in the Talmud, God offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it.According to religious Judaism, the 613 mitzvot or "commandments" given in the written Torah, as well as their reasonings in the oral Torah, were only issued to the Jews and are therefore binding only upon them, having inherited the obligation from their ancestors. |
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My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Dec 25 08:09:08 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Dave on Sun Dec 25 07:25:43 2011. My understanding is that Torah obligations are for the Jewish people only and that Gentiles are only obligated to follow the 7 Noahide laws. Gentiles are not required to follow any precept or law in the Torah outside the 7 Noahide laws. Simple enough.That being said, I personally don't care what religion you follow and I believe that everyone is free to worship whomever and however they like. My one personal requirement is that you don't try to foist your religion on me, and that is the objection I have toward certain sects of Christianity. If you want to believe that Jesus was the Son of God and was sacrificed to save the world, fine by me. But don't start then telling me that MY own religion requires me to believe the same way and if I don't believe that way, then I am not practicing my own religion properly and in fact am a godless sinner who is heading straight to hell. That crosses the line. What I particularly find objectionable is the notion that Jesus is the Messiah predicted by the Prophets, who were all staunch followers of the Torah. Lets put aside the fact that Christianity often misinterprets, mistranslates and takes the words of the Prophets out of context in many instances. [Take a look at the points raised by Nachmanides in the famous Barcelona Debate of 1263 for examples.] Jews heard the words of the Prophets for hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus, and we understood very well what they said, thank you very much. For Christians to now come along and tell me that either I don't know or that I am intentionally ignorning what the Prophets were "really" telling me and that THEY do know despite arriving centuries after the Prophets lived despite no Christian ever having heard Isaiah or Jeremiah firsthand, and also to tell me that if I don't listen to the Christians' view of things, then I am "wrong" and have a "veil over my eyes" is the height of temerity and arrogance. If Christians want to use and refer to the Old Testament to fit their beliefs, be my guest, its a free country. I will even support your right to do so. I happen to enjoy the Christmas season, as people seem to be more cheerful and I appreciate the pageantry and the lights and the songs. Hell, my brother I and watched every Christmas TV cartoon growing up [my favorites were The Year Without a Santa Claus and A Charlie Brown Christmas]. But don't then tell me that not only is your intepretation right for you, its also right for me no matter what. Leave me alone. Merry Christmas! |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Dec 25 09:42:31 2011, in response to My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Mitch45 on Sun Dec 25 08:09:08 2011. Boy someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....No seriously, I can't stand evangelists either, I hate when Jehovah's Witness comes to my door, etc. And they are quite sorry they ever came near the house when they do. f Christians want to use and refer to the Old Testament to fit their beliefs, be my guest, its a free country. I will even support your right to do so. I happen to enjoy the Christmas season, as people seem to be more cheerful and I appreciate the pageantry and the lights and the songs. Hell, my brother I and watched every Christmas TV cartoon growing up [my favorites were The Year Without a Santa Claus and A Charlie Brown Christmas]. Almost none of those cartoons are religious... And for the record, many of the famous "Christmas" songs were written by Jews... White Christmas Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer Silver Bells Your a Mean One Mr Grinch Sleigh Ride Santa Baby I'll Be Home for Christmas Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire Let It Snow ALL Written by Jews. It's only in today's politically correct climate that anything "Christmas" (the secular part) is taboo. |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 25 17:43:10 2011, in response to My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Mitch45 on Sun Dec 25 08:09:08 2011. My understanding is that Torah obligations are for the Jewish people onlyEver read Shemot (Exodus) 12:49 or Vayikrah (Leviticus) 24:22? |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 25 17:53:50 2011, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Dave on Sun Dec 25 07:25:43 2011. God offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted itNot the rest of the Israelites, just the Jews? AFAICR, even the "lost ten tribes" were accepting of the Torah (for the most part) up until they split away when Rehoboam was crowned king and they followed Jeroboam, who started in with the heresies by changing the seventh-month festivals to the eighth month, kicking out the Levites and making priests out of the lowest of the people, and even building two golden calf-idols in Samaria. You do realize that the Torah is even in the Christian Bible, I hope. And it was the eser dabarim (Ten Commandments) that were written on the tablets, not the "mitzvot". |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Dec 26 10:01:32 2011, in response to Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 25 17:43:10 2011. Sure have and they confirm my position.The word "ger" means a few different things in Hebrew, depending n the context in which the word appears. It can mean "stranger" or it can mean "convert". In Exodus 12:49, the word "ger" means "convert", and as such, the verse states that there is one law for the homeborn Jew and for the convert to Judaism. It does NOT mean that the Torah was to apply to any stranger that happened to be living with them at the time. As for Leviticus 24:22, the same thing applies. It means "convert", not "stranger". |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Dec 26 10:06:49 2011, in response to Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Mitch45 on Mon Dec 26 10:01:32 2011. Just to add to my prior post:A prime example of where the word "ger" means "stranger" and not "convert" is the famous saying in Exodus [Shmos] 2:22, where Moses names his newborn son "Gershom" because "ger hu'yisi b'eretz nachriyah", which means "I am a stranger in a strange land". In this context, the word "ger" must mean "stranger" because to translate it as "convert" would make no sense - Moses clearly was not saying that he was a convert in a strange lane. First, Moses was not a convert to the ways of the Midianites and second, if he was, he would not have called Midian a "strange land" . |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 26 11:51:41 2011, in response to Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Mitch45 on Mon Dec 26 10:01:32 2011. n Exodus 12:49, the word "ger" means "convert"No it doesn't. It never did, in the Torah or other books. The implication is a guest, not a permanent resident; and it says nothing about conversion to the Hebrew religion, especially where it mentions "the stranger that sojourns among you"—not a permanent resident. You're emphasizing context; I'm giving it to you. The word "ger" may be used nowadays for "convert", but not back then; AFAICS, it's a misunderstanding of word roots ("hitgairut" is not of the same root, and "esrach" is a completely different word altogether). The word translated in the KJV as "convert" (JPS: "restore", "return") in the Tehilim (Psalms), e.g. 19:7 and 51:13, is shub. Same word in Yisheiah (Isaiah): 1:27, 6:10 and 60:5. |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 26 13:16:36 2011, in response to Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 26 11:51:41 2011. The context of Exodus 12:49 is that it's someone who travels AMONG YOU (i.e. the Israelites). It has nothing to do with anyone else. Lev. 24:22 seems similar. |
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Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?] |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 26 14:07:10 2011, in response to Re: My Sole Objection [Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?], posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 26 13:16:36 2011. I think I said that. |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by Avid reader on Sun Jun 14 12:37:01 2026, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Dec 23 12:57:51 2011. Green Bean dish I made from scratch yesterday has at least given me hope for a better and brighter tomorrow.Avid Reader's 1] 15 oz can of Wax beans 1] 15 oz can cut green beans 1] 15 oz can of chickpeas rinsed 1] 15 oz can of sliced white potatoes 1] to teased liberal splash of Italian dressing mix and chill and self serve |
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Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Jun 15 10:22:09 2026, in response to Re: What is So Terrible About Anchovies?, posted by Avid reader on Sun Jun 14 12:37:01 2026. I LOVE anchovies!!! |
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