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| Re: Changing Demographics in D.C. (811586) | |
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Re: Changing Demographics in D.C. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:08:49 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 15:59:47 2011. You must be joking about Latinos self-identifying as white. They are probably the most race-obsessed segment of the US population.LOL @ Italians not being white. In NY we're white. In the rest of America, not so much. |
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Re: Changing Demographics in D.C. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:12:43 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 15:55:28 2011. What's happening in the white population is the wealthy and upper middle class are reproducing. It's the middle level guys like me who are not having kids.We don't know that. The key determinant, in any case, is women. Women that marry real breadwinner men tend to have more children than those where both parents must work equally or where the women bring in the lion's share of the income (career and family simply do not mix for women overall; one day we'll learn to accept that). And if we are reproducing, and living in a place like Queens NY, we're probably doing so with an Asian or Latina girl at this point, resulting in mixed race babies. Whites mixing with North, East and Central Asians would be desirable (after all, it worked for the Finns, some of the highest test scores in the world and the population seems to be a 90/10% White/North Asian mix). I'm sure a lot of the White-Latin mixing is primarily with Whiter or Mestizo Latinos, which is slightly less ideal but I doubt any such mixing is widespread. Why is the poor fertility rate driving gentrification? Because the city attracts anti-family types? It's not that they are anti-family, the City is anti-family. Raising children in most American cities is incredibly expensive, particularly for Whites and Asians, mostly because they try to send their children to private schools to avoid having their children associate with colored children. That and, in general, cities are not child-oriented. As such, urban environments select for White and Asian couples that are less interesting in having large families—especially career-women that can't be held down by lots of children. |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:17:04 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 15:55:28 2011. "It's the middle level guys like me who are not having kids."So don't wear tight underwear and you won't have an issue producing. It is a known fact that guys who wear tight underwear have a low sperm count. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:19:24 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:17:04 2011. As a resident of the State, are you allowed to reproduce? |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:19:55 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:08:49 2011. "LOL @ Italians not being white. In NY we're white. In the rest of America, not so much."So in Utah....you're not considered a White guy? eh? then are you an alien? or a foreigner? will they ask you for your papers then? |
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Re: Changing Demographics in D.C. |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:22:50 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:12:43 2011. Say Jayman....are you living in the early 1960s?...." mostly because they try to send their children to private schools to avoid having their children associate with colored children." I guess went to school with alot of Green, Amber, Purple kids back in the day.....me thinks you need a lesson in diversity.... |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:24:30 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:22:50 2011. you're in a mental institution. you go to school with whoever else is locked up with you. |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:25:30 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:19:24 2011. Yes....I have a license to reproduce...what's your angle.....eh? |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:29:57 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 15:59:47 2011. Except that most Latinos aren't White; most are Mestizos (Mexicans), the rest are Mulatto/Mestizo (Puerto Ricans, Dominicans), and only a handful (mostly Cubans) are White. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:30:18 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:12:43 2011. We don't know that.We do know that the white birth rate in the upper class is positive. It's the middle class whites who drag the overall rate down. We also know that wealthy whites are for the most part marrying wealthy whites. It's harder than ever for whites to marry into money. A rich white man no longer marries his hot secretary. He marries a female doctor or lawyer instead. In subchat terms, a rich white guy like 9Local will have at least two kids. Disenfranchised whites like me won't. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:32:04 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:29:57 2011. That is correct.This guy is Cuban and may be banging J-Lo. His name is William Levy. 
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:34:49 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:32:04 2011. Just so you know this Luchie....there are Cuban Jews too...they do exist.....just like there are Italian Jews.... |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:35:40 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:08:49 2011. In the census 45% of Hispanics identify as white and 45% "some other race". The rest are black, Asian, Native American, and mixed race. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:37:43 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:35:40 2011. are they allowed to identify as "Hispanic" or "Latino".Identification in the Census and "Self-identification" are different. For some reason, I don't think that the majority of Hispanics in America see themselves as "white". |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:38:25 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:34:49 2011. Who said anything about Jews streetcarmoron1? |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:40:59 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:29:57 2011. That's not exactly true. There are lots of Latinos that look European/white. I don't know who their genetic ancestors are, but they would be considered white based on their appearance in most countries, including nearly every country in Europe. It's only the US and a few others over here that consider Latino a separate race based on language. |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:42:05 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:37:43 2011. Yes. In the census Hispanic isn't a race. You identify as Hispanic or non-Hispanic and race is seperate. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:43:56 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:40:59 2011. I would not say that there are "lots of Latinos who look European/white", unless you're talking about the telenovelas on Univision 34. In this country, most Hispanics are Mexican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, and therefore of brown skin. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:52:16 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 16:19:55 2011. Italians are just as White as any other European. Even Richard Lynn's claim that they (mostly Southern Italians) are mixed with North Africans turns out not to be true from genetic testing.The least White Europeans turn out to be Portuguese and probably the Spanish (~10% North African, some Black), Hungarians (13% North Asian), and Finns (and probably Estonians) (10% North Asian). The established Whites in America, primarily English, looked down on the Italian and Catholic Irish newcomers (ever seen Gangs of New York?), and as discussed in the "ginny" thread, tried to suggest that Italians were somehow not "White." |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 17:02:36 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:52:16 2011. I'm Italian and could easily accept that we're not white like Germans, British, and other truly white Europeans.Look at so many Italians. Dark and other skeletal features kind of distance most Italians from purely white Europeans. |
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Re: Changing Demographics in D.C. |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 17:37:12 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:43:56 2011. " In this country, most Hispanics are Mexican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, and therefore of brown skin."Say Luchie......do you work for the Census Bureau FULL-TIME or PART-TIME? cause you seem to think you have the "pulse" on who lives here in America. Not even sure what you are trying to categorize "brown skin" as....maybe a shade for tanning salons? is that it? eh? It is so insulting for you to generalize the Hispanic community in the USA as being all one type just to please your racist eyes. It ain't happening buddy! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 17:38:24 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Jul 21 17:37:12 2011. I commend you for budgeting your internet minutes during the month of July. |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:26:16 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:43:56 2011.        
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 18:37:08 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:26:16 2011. totally Hispanic looking. |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:40:48 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 16:52:16 2011. The least White Europeans turn out to be Portuguese and probably the Spanish (~10% North African, some blackTechnically North Africans are white. Elizabeth Taylor was Cleopatra. Even Ethiopians were considered to be white by most intellectuals until about 60-70 years ago. Pick up any scholarly book about African history from before 1940 and it will usually state that Ethiopians are dark skinned white. IINM even now in the US Arabs are categorized as white so someone from Yemen or southern Saudi Arabia would be white while somone across the Red Sea in Ethiopia or Somalia that looks the close to the same would be black. Or northern Sudan. They are always called "Arab" when they look for the most part like light-skinned blacks. |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:41:54 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 18:37:08 2011. Exactly. And also white looking. One of them is even from Europe! |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 18:49:02 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:41:54 2011. They are not "white" looking. They are clearly a shade darker. Look at their features. And they are celebrities, not the people you see on the subway or at the mall or Walmart or next Tuesday's soccer game at Citi Field. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:52:04 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 16:30:18 2011. We do know that the white birth rate in the upper class is positive.By positive I assume you mean greater than the replacement value of 2.1 per childbearing woman total fertility rate? We've discussed this Luch. The only evidence I've seen, which is rather old, suggests that the TFR is higher among Whites in red states and then mostly among wealthier ones (presumably because of a higher rate of male breadwinners). It's the middle class whites who drag the overall rate down. Let's do a thought experiment for a second. Differentiating between four classes of Whites, impoverished (Appalachia), working middle, upper middle (high-salary white collar whites) and wealthy, you're saying the upper middle and above are pushing out kids, while the working middle and below are not so much. I would argue that more likely the fertility curve is that it is highest on both ends, and perhaps for different reasons. That is, I suspect that the impoverished and the working poor Whites are reproducing most, as are also the the upper middle class and elites. But this upper class makes up only a tiny percentage of all Whites! Getting exact numbers broken down by race is difficult, but according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class#US_models, the upper middle and "capitalist" class comprise 16% of the population. Even if women in this class are popping out a lot of babies (unless they are popping a whole lot), it probably wouldn't affect the White TFR much. Hence the contribution of the lower classes, which makes up the bulk of Whites, is more important. It's unclear if White fertility is dysgenic or not. We also know that wealthy whites are for the most part marrying wealthy whites. It's harder than ever for whites to marry into money. A rich white man no longer marries his hot secretary. He marries a female doctor or lawyer instead. There in, I think, lies the problem. An affluent man who marries a less high-powered woman can expect to have more children, as she isn't burdened by career and can be a stay-at-home mom. If today, more high-powered men instead marry career-minded women, there will be simply less time for children. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:54:16 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:35:40 2011. I think we all agree that the "Hispanic" category on the Census is stupid. Most Puerto Ricans count themselves as "White" on the Census, and most are clearly not White by anybody's standards... |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:59:06 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 16:40:59 2011. I would argue that even by using the typical Argentinian standard of "White," considering Hispanics that are ≥80% European to be White, that most who claim to be "White" are in fact not... |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:14:08 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 18:49:02 2011. Who on Earth is Cameron Diaz "a shade darker" than?!? And whites are not all the same shade anyway.    |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:25:01 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:59:06 2011. You yourself have stated that you are mixed race and less than 80% black. Also that to some people you don't even look black. Still you choose to self-identify as black. Meanwhile you evidently consider someone less than 80% white not white enough to be calling themselves white. Interesting. |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:26:21 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:54:16 2011. That's probably what was said about Italians 100 years ago. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 19:35:01 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 17:02:36 2011. Nope, while southern Europeans do have distinctly different genetics markers than do northerners, Europe is so internally admixed that all European populations are very similar to each other:(From http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/world-of-averages-europeave/)   Irish   English   French   Dutch   German   Swedish   Finnish   Magyar (Hungarian)   Austrian   Spaniard   Italian   Greek   Romanian   Serbian   Polish   Czech   Ukrainian   Russian These facial averages show the considerable similarity between different European groups. There are some patterns—such as the Irish having a distinct appearance (e.g., smaller eyes closer together—presumably shared with other Celts, but a Welsh woman was the other other Celt in this list), while Germanic groups (English, Dutch, Germans, Swedes, Austrians) do as well (having very "chiseled" features), as do the Slavs (Russians, Poles, Czech, Serbs, Ukrainians), who have larger eyes and more rounded features, and of course the Mediterraneans who have their features (generally being darker in hair color and skin tone)—but overall, they are all pretty similar, showing the interrelatedness of all Europeans. Italians are just as White as are Germans. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 19:41:11 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:40:48 2011. That depends on one's definition. The the older Three Race model (Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid), North Africans and S/SW Asians are grouped with Caucasoid, hence Whites. However, they are clearly differentiable into their own genetic cluster and differ from Europeans in several traits (not the least being average IQ, ~85 vs 100 for N African/SW/S Asian vs Whites), and that's what I'll go on.Even Ethiopians were considered to be white by most intellectuals until about 60-70 years ago. Pick up any scholarly book about African history from before 1940 and it will usually state that Ethiopians are dark skinned white. IINM even now in the US Arabs are categorized as white so someone from Yemen or southern Saudi Arabia would be white while somone across the Red Sea in Ethiopia or Somalia that looks the close to the same would be black. Or northern Sudan. They are always called "Arab" when they look for the most part like light-skinned blacks. The Horn of Africa appears to be the transition zone between sub-Saharan Africans and North African populations. Between that and intermixing would explain the similarities between NE Africans and Middle Easterners in their physical traits. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 19:52:27 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:25:01 2011. I'm Black mostly because of the One-Drop Rule. In most situation I claim to be "mixed-race" (I fill out Two or More Races on the Census form). I'd guesstimate that I'm about 65% Black, ~20% White, and ~15% East Asian (and perhaps a tad Carib Native). |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:14:29 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 19:35:01 2011. that ain't what Italians from NYC look like. Most from my old neighorhood are short and dark, easily mistaken for Puerto Ricans. They have dark skin and bigger noses. Protruding eye brows and other features that would be offensive to describe other groups. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:16:30 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:14:08 2011. It's Hollywood. They are cast because they are lighter and more white looking. This was a big issue on Televisa/Univision too. William Levy is an example of what offends some people.On the street. In the mall. At Walmart. Wherever, you go, Hispanics are usually darker. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:20:40 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 18:52:04 2011. The overall rate may be higher in red states. But within the upper class, those whites are having at least two kids. I'm talking UES types. They always have and always will have at least 2 kids. Overall the white birthrate is dropping.There in, I think, lies the problem. An affluent man who marries a less high-powered woman can expect to have more children, as she isn't burdened by career and can be a stay-at-home mom. If today, more high-powered men instead marry career-minded women, there will be simply less time for children. You do know, these people have BABYSITTERS don't you? Upper class women don't put their careers on hold anymore. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:55:46 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 19:35:01 2011. are you listening to Al Sharpton's radio show? they are talking about Debbie Wasserman.In addition, they are saying that the black community is more homophobic than others. Plus it was said that black kids who watch more television have better outcomes than those who don't. explanation given is that tv keeps black kids off the streets and out of trouble. and there's another hour left!! |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 20:58:51 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:16:30 2011. I agree with "usually". I'm just saying that a significant number look white. Maybe 25%.But I'm going by LA where a significant percentage of whites are not Scottish/Irish/German, but Jewish, Persian, Armenian, etc. |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jul 21 21:00:03 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:55:46 2011. and there's another hour left!!LOL!! your pal, Fred |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 21:10:31 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Fred G on Thu Jul 21 21:00:03 2011. I'm calling in a "Keithy Tea Party". Let's see if they take my call. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 21:53:14 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:14:29 2011. that ain't what Italians from NYC look like.Well we don't know where the creator of these composites got his subjects from, and perhaps they are not representative. Or maybe Southern Italians and Sicilians do look distinct from Northern Italians, the former more resembling North Africans more. Often, indeed, Mediterraneans are mistaken for Hispanics or North Africans: Look at this guy: He was billed in the WWE as Muhammad Hassan, a Middle Easterner. But he's actually Mark Copani, an Italian: Southern Europeans, while definitely genetically distinct from North Africans, do have many physical similarities and probably diverged more recently than did Northern Europeans from the latter group. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 21:57:35 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:20:40 2011. They still need to take time off from work to have children, which does hurt career prospects (to different degrees depending on the industry). |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 21:57:56 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 21:53:14 2011. NYC Italians don't look at all like the Italians in NYC. Well..."at all" is probably an exaggeration, but for me Italians were much lighter complexioned than I was expecting nor did they all have dark hair. Northern Italians pretty much look like the French who pretty much look like the English who pretty much look like non-ethnic white Americans. Imagine what someone from Iowa looks like and that's what they look like. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 21 21:58:55 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 21 20:14:29 2011. Yes. There's an Italian guy I know who is married to a Dominican, and he actually looks Spanish when he walks around with her. No one would ever think he was Italian when he's with her. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 21:59:55 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 19:26:21 2011. Indeed. They are still very much White though... |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 21 22:09:49 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:40:48 2011. And Cleopatra was Greek. |
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Posted by JayMan on Thu Jul 21 22:23:06 2011, in response to Re: Changing Demographics in D.C., posted by Easy on Thu Jul 21 18:40:48 2011. I will also add that Northern Sudanese are indeed most Arab in descent (as opposed to South Sudanese who are most Black). The conflict there and eventual division of the country was very much along racial lines.But, looking at sub-Saharan Africa:   West African   South African Black  Central African   Ethiopian Ethiopians and other Northeast Africans definitely have features that start to look "Caucasian," that is narrower noses and lips and smaller brows (and, not visible in the above pics, flatter faces):  People who are not familiar with NE Africans can be surprised by their appearance (especially since most of the Blacks that those outside of Africa know are West African in descent; I got a lot of remarks about one of my physics professors who is from Ethiopia). This is apparently the zone where these features evolved, transitioning to North Africans/Middle Easterners who then went on to become Europeans. I saw a Somali drought refugee the other day on the news that looked like the Black version of Osama bin Laden. |
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