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Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)]

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 6 12:23:31 2011, in response to Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 29 03:20:40 2011.

BBC News . . . the video in the link focuses on the effect on Muslim Halal in the first half and last quarter, with a bit of focus on the Jewish Kosher in the third quarter.

(868842)

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Re: Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)]

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 6 12:42:17 2011, in response to Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)], posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 6 12:23:31 2011.

Interesting new tactic: cloak antisemitism in the veil of anti-Islam. Well I guess all those sand ni**ers are all alike, right? Jews also blow up skyscrapers, I guess.

(922434)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012, in response to Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 29 03:20:40 2011.

There is a great deal that I do not know about Kosher, and Halal requirements in the preparation of food.

There are many dos, and don'ts.

I had thought that most, or all, where the result of a need for clean, or sanitary conditions for the time.
A thousand years ago and 5,000 years ago. Illness, or death, was found to follow, if certain conditions were not followed.

So to give these sanitary rules great impact, the weight of religion was put behind them.

Now with modern detection, treatment, and the use of refrigeration and manufacturing techniques, these illnesses and threats to life can be avoided.

There are those among both groups, that hold to a strict orthodox practice of these laws with the belief it is both religious, and traditional.

Then there are reformed, or moderate practitioners, that don't believe the wrath of God will fall on them for accepting modern and healthy practices.
These believers can enjoy that which is forbidden to the orthodox believers.
I have been told by orthodox believers that it would be forgiven if only non- kosher food was all that was between death by starvation.

I'd like both strict and relaxed views, please,

(922442)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 10:34:35 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012.

There are those among both groups, that hold to a strict orthodox practice of these laws with the belief it is both religious, and traditional.

Then there are reformed, or moderate practitioners, that don't believe the wrath of God will fall on them for accepting modern and healthy practices.


The Orthodox don't believe there will be a wrath of G-d, either. There's also nothing unmodern or unhealthy about shechita or dhabiha.

(922443)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:38:36 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 19:46:33 2011.

Israel is a big producer and exporter of canned hams.
Israel is tolerant of the lax in others dietary practices.

(922449)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 10:34:35 2012.

I am only trying to find the origin for the laws. I have no problem for its continued practice.
I, as goium, (spelling) enjoy cooking and styles of many types, but I'm not limited.
I have my likes and dislikes.
I've also been influenced by my background and upbringing. Some of this too, has been over come.

(922451)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 11:05:44 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012.

I am only tryng to find the origin for the laws.

The Bible and rabbinic interpretations thereof.

(922490)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 15:19:08 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012.

Kosher has dealings with how to treat the animals, not just the modern rationalization of not eating pork because of some theory upon diseases. By banning Kosher the kooks from the Animal Rights Party or whatever they are have endorsed gross amounts of torture of animals.

(922519)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 16:42:41 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 15:19:08 2012.

False, there is no torture of animals by non-kosher butchering. Some argue that it's more humane.

your pal,
Fred

(922522)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012.

The origins of kashrut has nothing to do with health, cleanliness, or treatment of animals. The reason there is Kashrut is because G-d commanded it in the Torah. And of course "it would be forgiven if only non- kosher food was all that was between death by starvation" as the Jewish religion believes any law or commandment could be broken to save a life.

That being said, I don't know why I'm even responding to a retro post as I hate retro posts.

(922525)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 17:28:39 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012.

Someone had to impart the truth.

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 22 18:08:37 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012.



the Jewish religion believes any law or commandment could be broken to save a life.

That's not true.

(922546)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Dave on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 16:42:41 2012.

False, Fred. Stunning with a bolt stun gun is still common in non-kosher slaughtering and quite often the first bolt doesn't do the job.

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 18:55:22 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 11:05:44 2012.

I guess it is the interpretations. Are some stricter then others?
I have been told some Ultra Orthodox find reformed to have a worse standing then a non-Jew. I don't know if it is the dietary part, or the entire belief system.

Where the Bible stories intended to give weight to a healthy choice for a lesser educated population?

I look at the current obsession in Afghanistan with their belief in the holiness of the Koran by an illiterate population.
Interpretation is made for them by an Iman on what we in the west consider to be our own to make. Was that how it started way back in time with the Bible.
The powers in Rome held sway and over came other points of view until Guttenberg And that guy in England rewrote the old and new testaments in the native language. Only the ruling classes were educated in Latin and Greek.

(922561)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 19:04:58 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 17:28:39 2012.

This is interesting, and I'm sure , more is to come.

(922565)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 19:09:01 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dave on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012.

I bet the ones going on about police taser use are the same ones who think it's ok to use on animals.

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:24:48 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dave on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012.

I'd agree with once in a while, Dave, but not quite often. The procedure itself isn't torturing the animal.

your pal,
Fred

(922573)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 22 19:28:14 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:24:48 2012.

I've seen it done around here. Dave is right. It's extremely painful to the animal and you pray that the first kick works. When it doesn't the animal writhes in pain. Not pretty at all and gets all sorts of reactions from the animal when the first hit fails. :(

(922584)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:55:03 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 22 19:28:14 2012.

Pro's don't have failure rates like that. Some places use CO2 to pre-stun the animals so the bolt isn't even an issue. Ok, hacks like me sometimes miss with the bullet and it's ugly but I'm not a professional nor am I well managed either :)

your pal,
Fred

(922633)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 22 21:06:14 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:55:03 2012.

Yep ... and I'm describing amateurs as well. Off with their heads. :)

(922755)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 22 18:08:37 2012.

That's not true.

It's close enough to true for this discussion.

(922800)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by TERRapin station on Fri Mar 23 11:44:54 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012.

I think it is an important distinction to make clear. It would be most, but not any/all.

(922821)

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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 23 13:32:04 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012.

How?

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