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| (610486) | |
Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010 As was discussed a few days ago, up until now, nobody knew what the full text of SB1070 (passed by the legislature of Arizona) actually said. What was online before were drafts of the bill before everything was finalized. The final document is in the link below:http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2930/sb-1070.pdf |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:25:27 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. Here's the Cliff Notes version, if anyone is interested:http://www.azdatapages.com/sb1070.html#document/p2/a0 |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 23 02:48:41 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. Except for Section 3, this is a good, reasonable law IMO. Where do I sign up to boycott entities that are boycotting Arizona?Section 3 I have a problem with because it attempts to "patriate" federal law. I think there's a fifth amendment issue there because if a state can prosecute someone for violation of a federal law, would that person then be twice in jeopardy of life or limb and if so would that mean that the state is effectively abrogating the ability of the federal government to enforce its own laws? 13-1509. Willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document; assessment; exception; authenticated records; classification |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:55:37 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 23 02:48:41 2010. After reading the law tonight, I've figured out why the cities are boycotting Arizona. Essentially, the law outlaws "sanctuary cities" in Arizona. All of the cities boycotting the state are "sanctuary cities."Other than the section that you just mentioned, which may or may not be, I believe the law (after reading the final version) is Constitutional. The "trespassing" provision is nowhere to be found on the final law. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 23 02:57:01 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:55:37 2010. I think that sanctuary cities are an abomination. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:00:40 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. See what happens when people bother with "instant news", "blogs" and "pundits" until the story is fully cooked with REAL facts? :( |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:06:14 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:00:40 2010. It is actually a letdown of sorts. The law isn't half bad. I was kind of hoping I'd have more to argue about. The ONLY thing that reading the law does, for me, is realize the sheer stupidity of all of the boycotters.I've got to get out of the Bay Area. It's turning me conservative. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:22:06 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:06:14 2010. There's nothing at all wrong with being a conservative. A TRUE conservative is a GOOD thing. It means that you understand your heritage, you understand the true purpose of government, it means that when the going gets tough, you roll up your sleeves and HELP FIX things, you take care of your neighbors and they take care of you, and you GIVE of yourself to those who need your help.Don't confuse TRUE conservatives with these selfish, whiny windbags ... Welcome to being a media sheep. Now turn OFF that talking lamp and go find your neighbors and love them ... let the assholes self destruct. Your soul is the only thing nobody can take away from you unless you LET them. Moo. :) |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:31:00 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:22:06 2010. I do consider myself as more of a "true" conservative. On some levels I also identify myself as a "libertarian." On most of the "hot button" social issues, I consider myself to be "liberal in thought and mind" but the reason I am "liberal" stems more from the belief that I just don't think that the government should stick its nose where it doesn't belong rather than embracing "liberalism" for what it really is.I cannot stand the Democrats or Republicans. I believe that they're all a bunch of crooks and liars. I also cannot stand the Tea Party movement as I believe, sadly, that it is a front for racism. I truly believe that there is a large segment of the "white" population in this country that is scared about the demographic shifts occurring right now in this country (which within the next decade or so will result in the "whites" loosing their position as the majority as the population) and are trying to take steps to preserve their dominance in society through the Tea Party movement. Plus, conservative talk radio consists of a bunch of old men shouting at people. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:44:02 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:31:00 2010. Agreed on the politics, that's why aside from poking republicans in the eye since they're the "party of gog" I could give a shit about other people's labels which they didn't even think up themselves. :)America's got a serious problem that politics isn't interested in at all - a simple thing of morality. What's right and what's fair. It's something that to me is more important than the posturing, finger-pointing and name-calling. The complete abdication of morality is what's causing all the problems we're facing now from corporate abuse to the idiots we elect. I'm grateful that I live out in farm country. Like is SO much simpler here, and the old rules I'm talking about still hold true as a way of life. Wouldn't trade it for anything. Those other gasbags? They're merely amusement to me while they eat each other up. As far as the hate-mongers and the selfish? Well ... 
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:50:57 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:44:02 2010. I could never live in farm country. I couldn't live in a central city either. I'm a "suburban" boy 100% of the way.I do agree that there is a "lack of morality" however I believe that it stems from the fact that we're too busy making ends meet that we don't have time to catch our breath and really think anymore. When we do think, it's often what is best for ME, how can I get ahead, how will I make the most money. We lose sight of the greater community that we live in and the greater society that we live in. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 04:04:26 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:50:57 2010. That's true ... but the really BAD thing is that the very evils which have taken away our morality are the very ones telling us what we should be thinking and doing. Sometimes that carrot on the end of the stick isn't all it's cracked up to be, and one of the valuable things I learned out here is that the most satisfying aspects of life do not come with a price tag. The 'burbs are one of those phantasms that's completely artificial and contrived and hard to shake off.I was born and raised in the Bronx, got my urban sombrero on there - and I've lived up here now. I like this one better. Trick to living way out is to bring your own job, and bring your own sanity. Talking lamp and screech radio ain't gonna help there. :) |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 04:08:57 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 04:04:26 2010. I like people, I like variety of people, and I like the variety of activities that comes with being near a city. I'd always thought that I'd like to retire to a ranch out in rural New Mexico but at the same time I'd think that It'd be fairly lonely. Either way, I am a LONG ways out from retirement. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 04:34:33 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 04:08:57 2010. Heh. Lonely is good ... as long as you have friends. Cities are fun, even MORE fun when they're a treat to visit, and like having grandkids, once the fun is over for ya, you can hand it all back and go home. :) |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 04:38:20 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 04:34:33 2010. I'm nowhere close to having kids, let alone grandkids. I do have several friends and relatives with children and I enjoy the kids. The best part of those kids is that I don't have to take them home with me at the end of the day :). |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 05:06:19 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 04:38:20 2010. Ding! You'll seriously appreciate that thought in a couple of decades all over again. Heh.Well ... enough compiling for the night ... I gets me some sleep! |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 06:54:10 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 03:06:14 2010. That's the problem with most of the hysteria and propaganda that the left has pushed out in reference to this law. They actually WANTED it to be something it wasn't. it was pure hysteria and propaganda. I never thought I would say it, but I am all for boycotting Los Angeles and San Francisco (etc) because they wanted to "boycott Arizona". |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:30:39 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. Ha. All that arguing about nothing. A stupid law, because it accomplishes nothing. Stupid responses from people who hadn't read it but were sure it would lead to disaster. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:44:00 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 06:54:10 2010. That's the problem with most of the hysteria and propaganda that the left has pushed out in reference to this law. They actually WANTED it to be something it wasn't. it was pure hysteria and propaganda.Agreed. But the Arizona legislature has a share of the blame. They passed a law that had no content and claimed that it would make a difference. The left believed them, instead of actually reading the law. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 08:45:44 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:44:00 2010. The left walked into their trap. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:49:51 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 08:45:44 2010. Yes and no. I think Republicans will lose just as many Hispanic votes in 2010 from this whole thing as they gain elsewhere. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 08:58:45 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:49:51 2010. But the lost GOP votes will be concentrated in a relatively few districts. The 2000 election proved that a majority of votes isn't needed as long as you have a majority of ELECTORAL votes. The GOP is toast in a couple decades if they don't stop the Hispanic influx and they know it. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 23 09:28:27 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 08:58:45 2010. The GOP is toast in a couple decades if they don't stop the Hispanic influx and they know it.They're also toast in a few decades if they don't keep a reasonable share of the Hispanic vote. Legal immigration and growth of the existing American population of Hispanic descent will do them in otherwise. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 09:34:09 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 09:28:27 2010. The GOP is nothing but a coalition of the rich, those who think the rich will let them climb the ladder and assorted useful idiots. I'd like to see them rot before they take the nation down, IT'S GETTING CLOSE. Obama's no help either. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 23 09:59:11 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. I thought it was already available days ago. Did they amend it again?Subchatters can't be bothered to read a short newsstory, will they read this? Or will they be like Holder, Obama, Conyers, Hanks, Sharpton, Jackson, I forget her name, cell phone woman at townhall, and all the other members of what Harry Reid would call "Negro"(and have a conference of the NAACP claiming this IS ok) and not read it? |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 10:06:46 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 23 09:59:11 2010. Why don't you get a job and produce something for a change rather than betting against the Dollar. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 23 10:16:28 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 09:34:09 2010. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 10:53:14 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 23 09:59:11 2010. Yes, it was amended again.Section 5 appears too broad, at least in its first two subsections. Sections 7 and 8, along with Section 9 to some extent, appear to be infringing on federal prerogative, especially Section 9, because I would think that who is required to use the E-VERIFY database is set by the feds, and not the states. It is Sections 7 and 8 though that should be challenged, because state penalties would be imposed on top of federal penalties. All in all, a quick read-through tells me that Arizona wasted its time when all that was needed was a one-paragraph message by Jan Brewer that said that the National Guard is being activated and being sent to the gaps in the border fence. You wonder why Arizona is getting blasted? Because it ID'd the problem and then did NOTHING to fix it. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 23 12:19:32 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. No, the full text of the law was published 3 weeks ago. It's been slightly amended since. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 12:43:31 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun May 23 12:19:32 2010. And what does the text tell me? Canard!The law does nothing to solve the problem. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 12:44:41 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 09:34:09 2010. Wow. I couldn't have said it any better myself. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 12:47:52 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 10:53:14 2010. But the people boycotting the state actually think that this law does / will have teeth. This law doesn't have any teeth and will likely not change daily life in the state at all. Therefore, the people boycotting are a bunch of idiots. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 12:51:29 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 12:47:52 2010. Those supporting it aren't much smarter either. I'm blasting it because it's a waste of time, and the money spent debating and passing it could have been used to activate the Guard. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 23 13:21:04 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 12:51:29 2010. Activating the National Guard is what would be the waste of time and money. They couldn't be very effective without the feds allowing them to help patrol the border which they won't do. And whatever benefit there is would be very temporary. The Guard can't stay out there indefinitely. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 13:33:58 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Easy on Sun May 23 13:21:04 2010. Which is what should be allowed if Janet Napolitano has brains. Ideally, it would be for one year until new Border Patrol agents can come online. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 23 13:40:50 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 13:33:58 2010. I think that Arizona and the rest of the US wants the federal government to step up and make a long term decision, not a 1 year stopgap to wait for border patrol agents that aren't coming. Whether the law gets overturned or not, passing it has at least put some pressure on the administration to do something long term. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 13:45:52 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Easy on Sun May 23 13:40:50 2010. The only way I see this law getting overturned is if the asinine boycotts don't end. The state is too reliant on tourism in order for the boycotts to continue long term. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 14:05:56 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 13:33:58 2010. Guardsman are not Border Patrol agents. They have neither the training or know-how to successfully identify, interdict and detain illegal border-crossers. They are part-timers with various occupational specialties completely unrelated to such a mission.In addition, the yearly bi-weekly training of such personnel has been focused completely on the missions in Afghanistan and/or Iraq and there is no time for this in any training calendar let alone an operational one. Furthermore calling these civilians for Active Duty would be an expense that a State on the verge of bankruptcy cannot afford. Logistical support is non-existent. Where will they live? How will they be supplied? As you can see, just off the top of my head, it's not even remotedly feasible for more than three days. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun May 23 14:32:50 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 03:00:40 2010. You are, of course, including "you know who" in that statement, are you not? |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 23 14:39:37 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 14:05:56 2010. Thank you. From what I recall when California utilized that Guard at the border it wasn't considered to be successful. They just aren't trained for that type of task so all that they do is ride around and call border patrol agents. It's a very inefficient use of their skill set. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 15:02:13 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 14:05:56 2010. The state can call them up, and the feds can provide funds for the state to pay---by cutting in other non-essential areas. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 15:27:26 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by Train Dude on Sun May 23 14:32:50 2010. Yes ... you're included. :) |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 15:38:20 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 15:02:13 2010. The state can call them up, and the feds can provide funds for the state to pay---by cutting in other non-essential areas.The State can also call up the their volunteer firefighters or the Arizona State University Band. That still wouldn't make it anymore feasible. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 15:44:17 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 15:38:20 2010. You only have X amount of dollars to spend; you had better prioritize. This should be near the top of the list in priorities. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun May 23 16:14:00 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 23 15:38:20 2010. If they're planning on setting off the klaxon at the firehouse, there'd better be a cold keg when I roll the truck back! :0 |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 22:33:34 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by AlM on Sun May 23 08:30:39 2010. On the contrary, it accomplishes A LOT, and just what they wanted to do...draw attention to a HUGE problem, that the United States government has been ignoring for many many years. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 22:34:56 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 08:45:44 2010. Yes they did, and many made fools out of themselves. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:35:41 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 22:33:34 2010. Then can you name a single thing that can be done once the law is implemented that was not possible before? No politician can without flat-out lying. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun May 23 22:35:47 2010, in response to Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by RockParkMan on Sun May 23 09:34:09 2010. LOL, tell that to all the rich leftists living in places like the Upper West Side of Manhattan and San Francisco....and rich areas all over the country like those.... Democrats are the party of the elite too. |
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Re: Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun May 23 22:37:50 2010, in response to Final text of Arizona SB1070 now available online, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Sun May 23 02:21:59 2010. Now, can anyone tell me what this law makes possible that was not possible before? I don't see any. |
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