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| Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests (599719) | |
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| (600017) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 00:18:12 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 00:17:05 2010. Attitude adjustments ... when I as with the teeyay, learned how to use a shoe paddle properly, wouldn't be without one now. :) |
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| (600018) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 00:23:39 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 00:15:36 2010. lol. Of course not. ;) |
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| (600019) | |
Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 00:31:28 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Mon Apr 26 21:38:06 2010. That's when the crazies showed up. |
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| (600020) | |
Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 00:36:06 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 00:31:28 2010. Isn't there a movie entitled "The Crazies" that is coming out soon? |
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| (600021) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 27 00:54:11 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 00:03:31 2010. i think it is even at best |
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| (600044) | |
Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by R PansePCC on Tue Apr 27 05:10:57 2010, in response to Violent Arizona Protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 26 20:44:21 2010. I bet they can spell better than the TeaBaggers. |
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| (600049) | |
Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 27 05:33:54 2010, in response to Violent Arizona Protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 26 20:44:21 2010. What are you showing here? Violent leftists attacking Hispanic protesters? |
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| (600072) | |
Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 10:04:20 2010, in response to Violent Arizona Protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 26 20:44:21 2010. How about taking away one's civil rights...eh? protection UNDER THE LAW!..where did that go now? eh? 
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| (600074) | |
"Your papers, please!" is the talk of totalitarianism. |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 10:08:51 2010, in response to Violent Arizona Protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 26 20:44:21 2010. Very well put commentary....modern day Hispanic immigrants vs. past European immigration both fighting for a chance at the "American dream."From the NYDAILYNEWS.COM: Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signs immigration law 124 years after great-grandmother's journey Michael Daly Originally Published:Monday, April 26th 2010, 9:39 PM Updated: Tuesday, April 27th 2010, 8:21 AM When she came here as an Arizona delegate to the 2004 Republican National Convention, Jan Brewer seemed as sunny as her home state. "Just fantastic," she exclaimed about New York. "So many things to see!" Things like the Statue of Liberty, which had just reopened after being closed after 9/11. The monument was dedicated in 1886, which public records suggest was the very year Brewer's great-grandmother arrived in New York from England. Sarah Jane Marble was not yet 14, one of the very souls invoked in the famous inscription. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." By one relative's account, in seeking a new life, the great-grandma's family even changed their surname from Wilford. She married Francis Drinkwine, and they lived for a time in Iowa. Their son Perry Edgar Drinkwine moved on to Polk County, Minn., where he married Rose Ford. The long-lost family surname seems to have resurfaced with the birth of Perry Wilford Drinkwine. Wilford, as his family called him, married Edna Bakken. The couple had a young son, and remained in Minnesota until the outbreak of World War II. "Wilford Drinkwine believed his country needed him," Brewer said in a speech a month ago. "He moved his young son and his wife, Edna, halfway across America for a job in the Nevada desert. I was born a couple of years later." The future governor was 11 when her father succumbed to lung disease from prolonged exposure to munitions chemicals. The mother opened a dress shop and worked 10 hours a day, seven days a week. "I worked right beside her every day after school and on weekends," Brewer recalled. In one of those miracles of hard-earned opportunity that comprise America, the widow's daughter grew up to become the Arizona secretary of state and a delegate to the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York. One hundred and eighteen years after her great-grandmother arrived in America, Brewer stood in the shadow of the Statue of Liberty, next in line for governor. And it must have meant nothing at all. For now that she is governor, Brewer has signed an immigration bill that spits in Lady Liberty's face. The new law seeks to slam shut that golden door. It goes so far as to make it a crime not to carry papers proving you are not just some tempest-tossed soul who arrived in this country unbidden. "Your papers, please!" is the talk of totalitarianism. Brewer speaks dramatically of her father moving the family halfway across America, but says nothing of the great-grandmother who arrived the same year the Statue of Liberty became a symbol of welcome to all those seeking a new life. Maybe I am misreading the public records. Or maybe Brewer does not know her family's history. Most likely, she imagines there is a difference between the Europeans who sought refuge here in times past and Hispanics who dare to cross into her state. I cannot answer those questions because my inquires regarding her family's arrival in America were met with silence. That's just a politician's silence, though. The silence to listen to is the one invoked by the Statue of Liberty's inscription, the poem in which Emma Lazarus describes how Lady Liberty announces her invitation to the huddled masses. "Cries she with silent lips." mdaly@nydailynews.com |
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| (600076) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 10:33:11 2010, in response to "Your papers, please!" is the talk of totalitarianism., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 10:08:51 2010. If you can't ask people to show their immigration documents then you can't control the border. |
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| (600077) | |
Re: ''Your papers, please!'' is the talk of totalitarianism. |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:33:33 2010, in response to "Your papers, please!" is the talk of totalitarianism., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 10:08:51 2010. Yes it is. It places an undue burden on all to have to prove their citizenship when they find themselves within the state of Arizona. Nowhere else in America does such a burden exist. |
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| (600079) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:49:18 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 26 22:41:50 2010. The laws of this nation apply to everyone within its borders, regardless of how they go there.It places an undue burden on all persons, who under the Constitution have the right to travel freely within the nation. Nobody should ever have to prove either where they were born or naturalized to the police upon demand. It is not even required to state your name to the police in this country. The Fifth Amendment (yeah, we have one of those, seems a LOT of people have forgotten about it) provides the right to not self incriminate, and the demand for papers does PRECISELY that. (There are fines attached to, including a bizarre "incarceration fee", non compliance with this law.) It is the beginning of a slippery slope to totalitarianism. 
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| (600081) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:58:19 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 10:33:11 2010. You forget the lesson behind the movie "Born in East LA". It was about a natural-born citizen of Hispanic ethnicity being deported because he didn't have his wallet on him one fateful day....Not all ethnic Hispanics are immigrants. Let's add another one into the mix, since this is centered on Arizona and this group is a large minority there....the region's native Americans, strictly on appearance are often mistaken for Mexicans at first glance. |
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| (600086) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 11:57:38 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:58:19 2010. That's because a good percentage of Mexicans who come to the US are of Indian descent. Heck, my favorite female luchadora is Faby Apache.No one will be deported for not having their wallet with them. |
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| (600088) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:07:37 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 26 22:41:50 2010. "What is your problem with this law? Arizona needs it."So you're OK with ethnic profiling then? eh? so if someone from Canada is living in AZ ...ILLEGALLY..what are the chances that he/she will be stopped at a mall and asked to produce papers of citizenship? what if someone is visiting from out of town from another country, then this law gives the cops right at whim to produce papers of citizenship. |
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| (600091) | |
Re: ''Your papers, please!'' is the talk of totalitarianism. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:11:45 2010, in response to "Your papers, please!" is the talk of totalitarianism., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 10:08:51 2010. I am getting sick and tired of being called a fascist or Nazi for supporting our present immigration laws. IIlegals have no right to be here and I will not apologize for wanting them deported.If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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| (600092) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:13:19 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:58:19 2010. Not all ethnic Hispanics are immigrants.Then give them the proper papers so they can show a cop and be on their way! Illegals do not have some right to be protected from the enforcement of laws which they break every minute the spend inside American borders! |
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| (600101) | |
Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:26:07 2010, in response to Re: ''Your papers, please!'' is the talk of totalitarianism., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:11:45 2010. Hmmm....where is the BAR of SOAP...Junior...eh? someone needs their mouth washed out and GOOD!Say Chrisie..what are your thoughts on the cartoons below..eh?
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| (600103) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:28:42 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:13:19 2010. "Then give them the proper papers so they can show a cop and be on their way!"Why should they? just because they are Hispanics? where are their civil rights? the same right enjoyed by ANY other America who DOES NOT have to produce such documentation at the whim of the cops. |
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| (600112) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:37:43 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 10:58:19 2010. That was a movie, not real life. A comedy at that. |
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| (600115) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 12:41:58 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:13:19 2010. These papers can be lost---and cops and police make mistakes and citizens sometimes do get deported (the government learns that they are citizens when it's too late).The standard is if that one believes that he is a citizen but was deported, that one should apply for a passport at a foreign mission. |
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| (600116) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 12:48:16 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 11:57:38 2010. NO, instead they'll be arrested, fined and charged on top of it for their "incarceration". Read the law. That all applies when they cannot produce sufficient proff of citizenship ON DEMAND. It also requires one to self-incriminate, which AFAIK is unconstitutional. |
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| (600117) | |
Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:49:14 2010, in response to Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:26:07 2010. Idiocy. America was TAKEN from the natives. We didn't immigrate here. |
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| (600118) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:49:58 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:37:43 2010. But there is a possibility it can happen. |
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| (600119) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:52:29 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 12:48:16 2010. There is no requirement to provide proff of citizenship on demand. And this is at least the second time that you have told someone to read a law that you have obviously not read yourself. Practically nothing that you have posted about this law has been accurate. You say stuff just because it fits your view of what a racist law might look like. |
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| (600120) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:53:38 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 11:57:38 2010. "No one will be deported for not having their wallet with them."How can you say that with such certainty? are you saying that the so-called "good" cops to take the time to make background checks? This whole thing of turning the local police force into "immigration police" just stinks of ABUSE!....they should just leave this shit to the professionals...who have the tools and the knowledge on how to deal with illegals. |
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| (600121) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:57:45 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:49:58 2010. There is no possibility that an Arizona police officer will deport an American citizen. |
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| (600122) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:58:09 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:53:38 2010. Wtf are you talking about? |
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| (600123) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by TheCiskoKid on Tue Apr 27 13:02:01 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:07:37 2010. You are quite misinformed. No one seems to be suggesting that we ought to engage in racial profiling. There is no ethnic profiling permitted by this law. Profiling is a red herring that the left is putting foward to inflame the public. |
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| (600125) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 13:05:25 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:52:29 2010. The law would require the police “when practicable” to detain people they reasonably suspected were in the country without authorization. It would also allow the police to charge immigrants with a state crime for not carrying immigration documents. And it allows residents to sue cities if they believe the law is not being enforced.from:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/us/22immig.html How exactly is a natural born citizen supposed to prove their citizenship without carrying their birth certificate? Why should any American be asked to do that? Why should anyone be demanded to provide such proff, it's self-incrimination. There's a Fifth Amendment, did anyone forget that? |
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| (600126) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Apr 27 13:17:53 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by TheCiskoKid on Tue Apr 27 13:02:01 2010. If there was no change that racial profiling would occur with this law, so many people wouldn't be up in arms about it. Racial profiling is likely an issue in Arizona, which is a problem within itself. |
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| (600127) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 13:24:20 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 13:05:25 2010. You refuse to read the law and be informed.The law would require the police “when practicable” to detain people they reasonably suspected were in the country without authorization. True. It would also allow the police to charge immigrants with a state crime for not carrying immigration documents. False. The state crime is trespassing and the law specifically says (and I'm cut and pasting from the law. Since you refuse to be informed and read the law you might want to skip ahead): B. IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS SECTION, THE FINAL DETERMINATION OF AN 2 ALIEN'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE DETERMINED BY EITHER: 3 1. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WHO IS AUTHORIZED BY THE FEDERAL 4 GOVERNMENT TO VERIFY OR ASCERTAIN AN ALIEN'S IMMIGRATION STATUS. 5 2. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY COMMUNICATING WITH THE UNITED 6 STATES IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES BORDER 7 PROTECTION PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). IOW the federal government decides who is here illegally, not an Arizona police officer. There is no requirement that people "carry papers". That's part of the hysteria. And it allows residents to sue cities if they believe the law is not being enforced. True. |
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| (600128) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 13:27:53 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 13:24:20 2010. But IINM a green card does say something like "Keep this card in your possession at all times". Can anyone confirm? |
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| (600130) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 13:30:00 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:57:45 2010. However there is clearly the opportunity to wrongly arrest one. |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 14:09:13 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 13:30:00 2010. Yes, but there is that opportunity with every law. Do you know that most PD's already cooperate with ICE to determine the legal status of people arrested? The Maricopa County Sheriff's Dept has already been enforcing immigration law and has turned over 20k people to ICE. I listened to their Sheriff on CNN last night and he says that he treats everyone exactly the same. His deputies ask the exact same question to everyone regardless of race or appearance. "Where were you born?" |
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| (600140) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 14:18:57 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 13:27:53 2010. Nope. IIRC, the employer retains the card. My brother in law never carries his. He is a Spanish citizen, married to my sister for 15 years, never carries any proof of same, and uses his passport as ID when flying only. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 14:32:06 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Apr 27 13:17:53 2010. Racial profiling has to occur to enforce immigration laws. Just like it would have to occur to go after Methheads, or child molesters. Heck, every molester I see in a wanted ad at the community center, is a white male over 35. So it makes sense to profile a white male hanging around a school during dismissal. |
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| (600156) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 15:02:42 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by TheCiskoKid on Tue Apr 27 13:02:01 2010. Disagree; in order to properly enforce the law, that may be just what have to be done, or else the law is toothless. |
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| (600163) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 15:12:15 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 14:32:06 2010. The problem is that racial profiling is unconstitutional---yet to enforce that law, it will have to be done.BTW, child molesters are different since they have already been convicted of a crime. |
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Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 15:54:13 2010, in response to Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 27 12:49:14 2010. TAKEN = MURDERING AND RAPING THE NATIVE AMERICANS into what? modern day poverty...yea...very nice! eh?"We didn't immigrate here." Really? how so? the early can here FLEEING religious persecution while others did in fact here for a new beginning and a better way of life in the New World...better ask Junior...he probably can fill you in on American History..ok>? |
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Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 15:56:22 2010, in response to Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 15:54:13 2010. Native Americans MURDERED and RAPED each other during bloody battles FOR DECADES, maybe centuries. They did not sit around smoking the peace pipe. |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 15:59:57 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:57:45 2010. "There is no possibility that an Arizona police officer will deport an American citizen."So you really KNOW that for a FACT? that some "small-time" police officer in a small-ass town know exactly what he/she is doing 100% of the time? hmmmmm...you must live in "A perfect bubble" my friend...that wishful thinking at best. |
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| (600191) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 16:00:09 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 13:30:00 2010. Agreed |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 16:01:21 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 15:59:57 2010. Yes. I know this for a fact. |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 16:02:41 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 16:00:09 2010. There would be that possibility without this law. What everyone is ignoring in their rush to hysterics is that many PD's in cooperation with ICE already ask these questions. |
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Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 27 16:08:22 2010, in response to Re:If this offends you, go fuck yourself., posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 12:26:07 2010. told the truth |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 16:13:13 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 14:09:13 2010. " "Where were you born?""So lets see now...lets say...for the sake of argument...a school bus pulls into Tuscon, AZ and out comes Dan Aykroyd, Michael J. Fox, Tom Green, Seth Rogen, and Alan Thicke, etc....to name a few "foreigners" from up North.....would they be stopped and asked to produce "papers of citizenship?" eh? |
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| (600199) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 27 16:14:13 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 14:09:13 2010. easy what would you tell them if you were visiting phoenix az ? |
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| (600200) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 16:14:29 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 12:58:09 2010. You believe everything will be "perfect" under this new law...it wont' be. Mark my word. It's RIPE for ABUSE! |
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| (600203) | |
Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Apr 27 16:18:04 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Apr 27 16:14:29 2010. i agree with you ..... |
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