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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:39:03 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:22:07 2009. I think that's a little paranoid to believe that businesses are holding the economy hostage.Businesses are in business for one reason, to make a profit.I know, I ran a small business 25 years.If you can't make it doing that, work for the city ,state or feds.You try to play every angle you can to maximize your profit.right now, businesses are circling the wagons to wait and see. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:45:11 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:23:54 2009. Yes.Because Republicans are read by business large and small as being friendly to them.The anti-business rhetoric of leftists are what turns business off.Business is on one side only, to make a profit.That's the capitalist system, friend.Now, if you want business to be friendly to the American public ( like Michael Dell starting in a college dorm and building a business that employed 60,000 people all paying tax to Washington), government will be friendly to business.Unless, of course, you want to create a utopian state.Oh, wait, that was tried in Russia and it failed after 70 years,LOL! |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:45:15 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:39:03 2009. However...businesses should be less worried now that C&T is likely on the rocks. There will be some Democrats who join in a filibuster (the West Virginia and Montana Democrats would shock me if they do not filibuster, as coal is a major part of the economy in those states). |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:47:07 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:45:11 2009. However...they fail to realize that in many areas where Democrats are in power, there is a reason why Republicans aren't in power---because they are seen as not trustworthy for one reason or the other; New York is such a state where Republicans just aren't trusted---and for good reason. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:47:31 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:26:08 2009. OK,you are a reasonable man here and you are entitled to your opinion and I really hope you are right.If Obama comes to the middle and plays ball with small business, a lot of new ones will be created sending more revenue to Washington. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:48:25 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 13:36:07 2009. That's absolutely right, when they percieve the storm is over and the climate is improving. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:49:56 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:45:15 2009. But C&T is not completely dead yet.It still has a chance to pass.You are right about the Blue Dog Dems blocking it.Until the wooden stake is driven through the heart of the C&T vampire, businesses will wait and see. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:55:36 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:49:56 2009. Businesses also plan a year in advance, and if they don't start acting NOW to hire, it will not reflect in time for the midterms (of course, 2010 may be different in that Democrats can then target new conservatives for district elimination by dicing up their districts).Americans want to work. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:57:42 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:48:25 2009. However...their perception THIS time is likely incorrect. The debate on this will likely continue into early 2010. I wonder if Obama will end up trying to show the electorate that businesses are refusing to hire out of spite even though they have nothing to fear. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:57:55 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:55:36 2009. If there is a sudden uptick in business and the political climate improves, I'm sure they will turn on a dime and begin to hire.I know that would happen in small businesses anyway. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:59:34 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 13:57:42 2009. That would backfire on Obama because too many Americans are in private business or own them.That would only increase Obama's anti-business standing. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:00:41 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:47:31 2009. However...businesses likely need to start the economy. At this point, it is beyond the control of the POTUS.What more would businesses need to hear or see to start hiring? The credit markets seem to be favorable for businesses to start to borrow to hire (borrowing against future earnings). |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:01:26 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:57:55 2009. The uptick in business though likely has to start from their end though (borrowing to hire, which will then put money into the economy). |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 14:04:42 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:48:25 2009. I've owned a surveying firm for 17 years and regardless of the political climate, hired people to cover the workload when needed. I've been surveying for 30 years and have seen the same, politics or not. I disagree that any businessman is going to stall hiring to cover an increase in work just because of some upcoming legislation or because the Democrats are in power.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:06:51 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:00:41 2009. You are right about the credit markets staring to ease.The Fed has lowered the Fed Fund rate to almost zero.However, a lot of banks are hoarding that money against their balance sheets and not loaning it out to small business.This I believe will pass in time because the spread is just too good.You get money for nothing (and your chicks for free,LOL) and loan it out at 5 or 6 percent.Business needs to see this money getting in the pipeline.Businesses need to see consumers spending more which they aren't because of job loss fears. Business needs to see C&T dead and a reasonable cost to them of an overhauled health plan.Obama mentioned tax credits to small businesses for providing health care. This storm will pass and business will pick up again.I am optimistic and have invested personally in stocks at this cheap level I believe will profit when business picks up. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:09:01 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 14:04:42 2009. I don't think the potential disaster of a C&T Bill was ever propsed in your 30 years of surveying.Also, this is the worst climate since the depression of '29 to '32. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:11:34 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 14:04:42 2009. I think I read a line wrong here.You disagreed business would stall hiring to cover an increase in work.You are right there.If there is money to be made, a business will hire immediately.That is, if it is run correctly. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:21:22 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:59:34 2009. On the other issue, universal healthcare, the major reason why I believe it will die is:1. Amy Klobuchar (United Health is headquartered in Minnesota). 2. Arlen Specter and Bob Casey, Jr. (Cigna is headquartered in Philadelphia). 4. Joe Lieberman and Chris Dodd (yes, that Chris Dodd; most other healthcare insurance companies are headquartered in Connecticut). Those five Democrats are going to be key, especially Lieberman and Dodd. The big wildcard is: Would government employees get to keep their health insurance (Emblem Health in much of the Northeast), or would governments drop their plans as a result? |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:22:38 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:06:51 2009. The problem with healthcare---I didn't mention it in a prior response---is that if it does somehow pass, it will likely be tied up in court through as long as 2015 or 2016 (when it does reach the Supreme Court). |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:24:54 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:11:34 2009. A real problem in that may be beyond federal control; it is the issue of states starting to charge sales tax for orders that cross state lines, but are determined by where the person resides.What that means is that companies need to have an added cost in tax computation software that is detailed to every county in the United States. Leading the fight against this is Amazon, which is dropping affiliates in states that do this; I believe that this will reach the US Supreme Court, since interstate commerce is involved. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:28:41 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:21:22 2009. OK, good point and I'll be watching it all to see how it plays out.It sure will be interesting from a political science point of view.The wildcard.I believe they will force government workers into the government plan.Private insurance is concerned that the Government Plan will undercut them and masses of people will switch to the Govt. Plan to save money, driving out the privates.From my own personal experience, that's what i would do.I was self employed for 25 years and retired at 50.I have to have a health plan and mine now costs 500 bucks a month, 30 co-pay, 2500 deductible.I'll jump on a Government Plan in a second if it's half that price.I stay in great shape and never go to doctors anyway (they scare the shit out of me). |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:31:36 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:24:54 2009. I got nailed in the 90's running a small business buying supplies in NY State where I was not charged tax, and shipping to NJ.NJ came after me for Use Taxes which I had to pay up.Any small angle a small business takes to make an extra buck is usually blocked out by the state.I'm sure it's tougher now for small business with all states in desperate need of tax revenue. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:39:29 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 14:24:54 2009. Hey, it's been great chatting up these issues with you and Fred, but the sun has come out and I've got to get out and cut the grass.It's a jungle from all the rain.Have a great Fourth and I'll be back here again someday to chat with you and others. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 15:41:00 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:39:29 2009. Don't be a stranger. Have a safe and happy 4th.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 07:43:55 2009. Exactly. It didn't seem to be worth the effort anymore. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jul 3 16:57:02 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009. i know exactly how you feel .........yea |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 17:08:09 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 06:21:31 2009. Anyone who knows me in real life knows I'm not easily buttered. I call things whe way I see them and much as in real life, all your "atta-boys" won't erase your next "awe-shit".Your football analogy was wrong. compounding it with a baseball analogy would not have helped. Increasing my tax burden to help people who have found it simpler not to work cannot be justified to me. Stop trying. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 17:14:20 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009. HINT:There are many here, myself included who enjoy the photos and maybe even download some of them. Many times I don't add to the comments, perhaps, wrongly so, because it's seems very superfluous. I've recently begun to post a few pictres here, not because I want any praise for my limited photographic skills but because the might add to the thread. Feedback is always nice but in reality, much like surveys, people who have a negative comment are 10X more likely to respond than those who agree or feel positive about a subject. Keep posting them. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:02:05 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jul 3 07:36:56 2009. One trillion dollars went to the banks while homeowners and working class received ZERO!!! Corporate welfare at it's worst thanks to our current President of "change".I didn't realize that Obama was already President last Sept-Oct. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:03:45 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 11:07:10 2009. But yet it was Carter's fault when unemployment was 11% two years after he left office. |
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Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jul 3 18:08:24 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009. No, that was a big mistake you did in no longer posting your pictures. It may sound redundant to post "nice" or "great pic" everyday but I will say that I always enjoyed your photo of the day just as much I enjoy everyone elses wonderful pictures. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:12:52 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 14:28:41 2009. From my own personal experience, that's what i would do.I was self employed for 25 years and retired at 50.I have to have a health plan and mine now costs 500 bucks a month, 30 co-pay, 2500 deductible.I'll jump on a Government Plan in a second if it's half that price.I stay in great shape and never go to doctors anyway (they scare the shit out of me).That would make sense. There are others like you. 99% of businesses with 200+ employees offer health insurance. They and their employees would probably save tons of money if a public option were offered and make American businesses more competitive and therefore more profitable. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:23:02 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 07:15:34 2009. Private electric utility companies.There is nothing stopping them from building. In fact there are many plants projected to built over the next 10 years and C&T may trigger even more. McCain was saying the WE would build many plants and wasn't making any sense. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:36:01 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by docstox on Fri Jul 3 13:15:41 2009. Does Joe Biden go on Wright's non-existent radio show as often as Cheney went on Limbaugh? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:41:33 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 09:39:46 2009. Thanks, I know I have you on the ropes when you start making baseless accusations.More like this.  |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Jul 3 20:45:47 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Robert King on Fri Jul 3 10:32:18 2009. Using Maryland as a bad example. Under the 1999 De-Regulation Law, that was supposed to happen, but never did. Electric Rates increased for consumers over 100% from the former regulated rates. It was a classic case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.Baltimore Gas and Electric Company, a previously independent utility, became a total subsidiary of a new company, Constellation Energy and BGE had to "sell" the generation plants, (including the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Plant) to Constellation which sold the electric power back to BGE to distribute. Meanwhile, the rate payers (BGE's customers) got screwed. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 21:04:29 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:12:52 2009. Great idea. I'm sure you'll also like the idea of some government bean-counter making decisions about what sort of medical treatments you"really need" and what you can do without. I'm sure you won't mind waiting 9 months or a year to see a specialist or being told that you don't need a cat scan.By the way, your assessment is bullshit. The government will undercut private health insurance and drive it out of business. Then we'll have what obama wants - 3rd world health care for all. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 21:06:22 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009. Don't be a dick; post the pic!your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 21:06:42 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 3 18:36:01 2009. More food for thought:Great minds will discuss ideas. Average minds will discuss events. Small minds will discuss people. I see you can neither discuss ideas nor can you discuss events. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 21:07:24 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 21:06:22 2009. hahaha - you made a rhyme - hahahaa |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jul 3 21:15:38 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 21:04:29 2009. We already have insurance company bean-counters making decisions about what medical treatments you really need. |
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Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 3 21:18:58 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by R PansePCC on Fri Jul 3 16:56:02 2009. I understand - what seems to happen a lot here is that one or two threads generate a "heated discussion" with the result that they crowd out all the other threads.I no longer post any pictures that include models for the same reason you have amongst a few others as well. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 3 21:39:09 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 21:04:29 2009. Unlikely---because it will result in a lawsuit regarding destructive competition, which will tie it up in court for years. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 22:49:15 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 3 17:14:20 2009. I agree. I thought I always made an effort to say "Love the photo", or "great picture" or something, but I didn't post every time, but that doesn't mean they weren't enjoyed.I think it's a shame that you feel that way, as it was always a great asset, and well enjoyed. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Jul 3 22:49:54 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 22:49:15 2009. Thirded. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 22:51:07 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Fri Jul 3 18:08:24 2009. Agreed. I didn't always say "great pic", or nice in just a quick post, but I did always enjoy the "photo of the day"....and thought I always made an effort to say they were appreciated, because they were. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 22:53:37 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 3 21:18:58 2009. As someone mentioned, most of the responses to what people say is usually when they disagree, or don't like something, not if they do. It's probably rudundant to say "I agree" everytime someone posts something you agree with, and unfortunately, that means the most positive things get the least responses. But you sure as hell will hear about it if people disagree......I know it sounds backwards, but non response to a post usually means people that read it agree, as you will usually hear from them if they don;t! |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 22:57:29 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jul 3 13:12:28 2009. Dude, you have to give people "more than 40 minutes' to respond to you....people do have other things going on, and probably aren't on SubChat 24/7.... :) |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 23:07:20 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 3 10:00:39 2009. Yeah, but I liked Clinton for the most part, I even voted for him. He wasn't leading our country into what it is being led to now. |
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Re: Food for Thought For Liberals |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Fri Jul 3 23:11:46 2009, in response to Re: Food for Thought For Liberals, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 3 23:07:20 2009. Yeah, but I liked Clinton for the most part, I even voted for him.I was too young to vote for him. I probably would have voted against the first time, and voted with on the second. He wasn't leading our country into what it is being led to now. Granted that I was more interested in girlfriends than in the state of the union in those days, but it seems to me that the two post-Bush administrations are starting off quite similarly. Remember the energy tax? Hillarycare? Seems to me that the President Clinton remembered by many is the one post-1995 or so. |
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