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| Re: John White Found Guilty (271136) | |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:48:54 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:44:54 2007. Ignorant people say all sorts of things.Fat Nick would be happy to use racial stereotypes not just on blacks, but on other ethnicities too. I have no doubt you'd hear him refer to Chinese as Chinks and Irish as Micks and Japanese as Slants and make reference toMexicans being greasy and "Polacks" being stupid. He was that kind of person. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:52:19 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:38:48 2007. There you go again, insulting me during an exchange of opinions.I'm of the opinion know that most young blacks under the age of say, 18, understand that "nigger" is the worst thing a white person can call them, and means something totally different than when it's used among blacks. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:52:38 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:48:54 2007. So a bigoted railfan would call a Japanese person an R40? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:53:22 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:52:19 2007. The n-word shouldn't be used, period. It is a disrespecful word. However that is a red herring issue in this trial. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 13:53:58 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:52:38 2007. So a bigoted railfan would call a Japanese person an R40?I think Kinki-Sharyo was a subcontractor for the truck assemblies. Or it might have been Mitsubishi, I am not sure. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:54:55 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:52:19 2007. They also feel completely justified using terms like "white boy", "opie" or "cracka" without a racist label being slapped on them. Many probably buy into the idea that blacks can't be racist to begin with. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:56:09 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 13:53:58 2007. Sumitomo did the GOH, IIRC. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:56:29 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:46:11 2007. Innocent? He came out with a gun, too. He instigated - if he were innocent, he wouldn't have given Cicciaro his address. He was looking for a fight that night, too. Both parties were to blame for this even coming together. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:57:25 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:53:22 2007. Actually, it's at the core of the defense's justification. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:58:50 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:11:41 2007. There was a black juror. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 14:00:14 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:58:50 2007. True, and he/she voted to convict. Apparently that's just not something which can be accepted. This juror must've been bullied into making this decision to convict. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 14:04:55 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:33:15 2007. Forest Glen, your assertions are ridiculous. Do you know John White personally? How do you know he didn't enjoy a puff or two? Maybe he had a mistress on the side. But none of this matters. He still shot an unarmed kid.By the way, since you seem to know so much about the Whites personally, you would have realized Aaron was already in college - Suffolk CC doesn't cost a lot of money, and there is such thing as financial aid. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:09:02 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:52:19 2007. I'm not insulting you. I'm calling a spade a spade. You don't know any better. You can learn, but choose not to. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:14:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:54:55 2007. "They also feel completely justified using terms like "white boy", "opie" or "cracka" without a racist label being slapped on them"Those terms are racist, and there's no excuse for them either. But whites in this country have never been oppressed by blacks. Whites here have never been forcibly segregated by blacks de jure. "Nigger" historically meant you got the shit kicked out of you and calling 911 to complain just meant more people would show up to continue kicking you while you were down. Whites have never had that kind of experience in the US. In some places to this day, when a black man is attacked, Depurty Billy Bob's gotta finish his doughnut and use the toilet before he gets in his car and responds casually. When a white man is attacked, though, Billy Bob and his buddies coming screaming in with lights and siren, attack dogs and shotguns. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:16:11 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:56:29 2007. "He instigated - if he were innocent, he wouldn't have given Cicciaro his address"Maybe. Cicciaro didn't have to take him up on it. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:17:05 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:52:38 2007. LOL! Good one! |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Bingham C50 on Sun Dec 23 14:18:25 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:59:33 2007. The opinion on the verdict. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:20:34 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:05:07 2007. Sorry, but you're wrong there. And ignorant. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 14:25:30 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:09:02 2007. And you know better? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:33:52 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 14:25:30 2007. Yes. Most people know better. It's not hard to do unless you've beren brought up a bigot and don't feel like you need to change. |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Dec 23 14:49:32 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:41:46 2007. >>BTW, when did Riverhead become "tony"?<<The crime was committed in Miller Place, not Riverhead. However, to me, Miller Place is not "tony" either. Last time I went through there on Route 25-A, it looked like a regular middle class area. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 14:57:32 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:17:49 2007. he's a racist. thats why. come on Leonard, admit it! you think he was right becuase he's black and "oh the big mean white people are gonna come a lynch him and his family". you are a said excuse for a human being. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 15:01:52 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:40:57 2007. the evidence is a myspace post made by the freind of younger mr. white. the vic didn't know it was a hoax, he wanted to defend his own freind. I think the parents of the one who poasted the threat would atlest give thier kid a stern talking to about that shorta shit. looked what happened. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Sun Dec 23 15:16:12 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:40:22 2007. Kinda sorta.NYPL § 15.05 Culpability; definitions of culpable mental states. The following definitions are applicable to this chapter: 1. "Intentionally." A person acts intentionally with respect to a result or to conduct described by a statute defining an offense when his conscious objective is to cause such result or to engage in such conduct. 2. "Knowingly." A person acts knowingly with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. 3. "Recklessly." A person acts recklessly with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. A person who creates such a risk but is unaware thereof solely by reason of voluntary intoxication also acts recklessly with respect thereto. 4. "Criminal negligence." A person acts with criminal negligence with respect to a result or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he fails to perceive a substantial and unjustifiable risk that such result will occur or that such circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Sun Dec 23 15:18:00 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:18:47 2007. I do you one better...I didn't hear about this case until the verdict came down. |
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I guess ny sucks |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 23 15:40:28 2007, in response to John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 22 23:29:44 2007. converslyI'm reading about White in the paper, which just reprinted nazi newsday(i'm sick of their comment engine), and if it's close to being threatened on your own property, what's the issue? I don't know how an illegal gun would change things, but the version I'm reading, didn't sound like these dudes came over as friends. And it sounded like these guys where trying to f around with an unstable guy in his own house as it is. Did I get the wrong conclusion after 10 paragraphs? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 15:51:53 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:35:11 2007. "This trial is the epitome of racism."No, it was not. If anything, based on the fact that the jury deliberated for 4 days and at least twice told the judge that they were unable to reach a verdict, indicates that there was at least some serious consideration of the issues within the jury room. The trial itself appeared to be on issue until Mr. White's attorney played the race card. The fact that it was "NO SALE" with the jury just indicates that the jury was not subverted from the real issues. The facts are that: The victim and friends (the gang) did not attempt to breech the White's home. The victim did not attempt to use lethal force. Mr White and family had the opportunity to flee (a legal point in determining the use of force) No one in the White household caled 911. Were the victim and friends there for a friendly meeting? Likely not. However to this point I see nothing to indicate that they intended to use lethal force against anyone in the White family. The term "LYNCHING" keeps being kicked around - but no rope was found. Again, the term was used to evoke an image to the jury that simply did not exist - at least in my opinion. The recent Howard beach violence keeps being raised. I suggest that this has similar issues to the Sean Bell killing. The car in the Sean Bell case was moving at the officers and the officers felt threatened so they fired. Much has been made of the driver's actions in that case. Clearly if he were trying to hit the cops, then they were justified in using lethal force. Bottom line: If you are prepared to say that the victim and his friends were motivated by racism then you have to be prepared to say that Mr. White's actions were equally racist. Would he have reacted the same way if the the victim and friends were black? Likely not. In any event, ignorance, hatred and stupidity win. 2 families and civility lose. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 16:03:48 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:34:34 2007. You can't on one hand trivialize the use of THAT word when blacks use it and then demonize it when used by others. If the word is terrible then how does it empower blacks to use it amongst themselves. Whet I find funny is the fact that people use that rational to justify & condemn its' use. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 16:12:43 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:20:34 2007. no. he's right. more ftne than not, terms like that are used becuase the user knows it will get under the other's skin and illecent a responce. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 16:23:49 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 16:03:48 2007. During the Imus controversy, I remember reading some opinions from young blacks regarding THAT word, and others words, like Biatch and Ho. Blacks were furious that a white man used the word "ho" to describe the basketball players. Defenders of Imus countered saying that blacks constantly use these words amongst themselves(especially in music) but are offended when whites use the same words to describe them. It was suggested that when blacks use THAT word when referring to each other that they're bonding. This was one black person's perspective, not mine. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 17:24:36 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 16:12:43 2007. Even if used that way, they are often received in the racist way their history has provided. There is also no doubt Cicciaro meant them that way. Unfrtunately, he made his last mistake, and his debt with the House is settled, albeit at too heavy a price. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:44:41 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:59:33 2007. The first 3 are irrellevant as the answer to the fourth is that it shouldnt. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:49:42 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:38:48 2007. Jews don't call each other "Kike" or "Jesus killer."Not all jews, but I have met some who do. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:51:30 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 14:14:15 2007. There is an excuse for any word.If those who are around are fine with it, they are fine with it. |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:56:29 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 14:25:30 2007. No. He is just isolated from the world.It is quite entertaining how rich white people get more offended by words like nigga then black people do. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 18:06:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:01:25 2007. The kids brought it on themselves, however...by posting the fake MySpace threat. Yes, White shouldn't have fired the shot, but the victim is definitely not blameless. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 18:08:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007. However, Goetz shot someone who was no longer a threat to him...AFTER the threat was eliminated. Shooting each person once was enough. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 18:09:58 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:15:33 2007. That is what the defense is alleging, however...that the judge put the jury under pressure to reach a verdict before Christmas. Whether or not it can be proven is another story. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 19:01:09 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 22 23:46:09 2007. Daniel Cicciaro's behavior was classic violent white racist dirtbag, but the best way to handle Cicciaro would have been in the Suffolk County Jail facing charges.Do you think the police would have cared? This is Suffolk County, they're all racist out there. I personally believe Cicciaro's personal attitudes and choices contributed to his death. No matter what someone did, you don't take a group of 3-4 other guys to someone's house and start calling them nigger and threatening to attack them. If a group of 5 teenagers come to your house and try to or threaten to attack you, you don't go outside with a gun and shoot them. You call the police, even if you think they're racist. However racist they are, they probably aren't going to join in with the teenagers and start shooting at you. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 19:15:46 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 18:06:15 2007. Cicciaro and friends had NOTHING to do with the creation of the MySpace threat! It was Aaron White's FRIEND who made the hoax page, not the boys who showed up at the house.At the party, the girl whom the fake threat was aimed towards told Cicciaro she was uncomfortable with Aaron's presence. Cicciaro asked him to leave, and it escalated from there. The girl lated recanted and said she found out it was a hoax. I never said the victim was blameless, but get your story straight. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:26:14 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 14:57:32 2007. I'm the number one person that criticizes rappers for acting ghetto. The majority of my friends are Caucasian. However, in this case a man protected his son from a group of cowards. Now he's being penalized for his valiant actions. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:29:39 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:56:29 2007. No, he was falsely accused of rape. He wanted to clear his name. However, rather than to fight him one on one like a man Cicciaro brought his posse. This was not a playground fight. Cicciaro intended to beat him to a bloody pulp. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 19:33:23 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 13:53:58 2007. Methinks you missed the point of Amanda's joke. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:33:25 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by R30A on Sun Dec 23 17:56:29 2007. I'm black and that's an offensive word. Anyone that uses it should be fined. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 19:38:47 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007. Bologna. Goetz wasn't in immediate physical danger. He used an illegal gun on kids that asked him if he had $5. He should have been presecuted for the assault 1 to the fullest extent of the law besides the illegal gun possession. If it escalated to a threat on his life he would have been justified.Of course he could have been aquitted by reason of insanity as by just looking at Bernie you knew he was a loon. |
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Re: I guess ny sucks |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:42:09 2007, in response to I guess ny sucks, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 23 15:40:28 2007. You're right. One thing is certain-I won't be railfanning in Suffolk County anytime soon. I may move down south once college ends. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 19:42:53 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:26:14 2007. "However, in this case a man |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 23 19:43:47 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:29:39 2007. He was not falsely accused of rape. You really do need to get your facts straight. |
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Re: I guess ny sucks |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 19:47:04 2007, in response to Re: I guess ny sucks, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 19:42:09 2007. I may move down south once college ends.Down South? There you'd see some real lynch mobs. Good luck. Personally I think the Southern States should have been turned over to Mexico back when that Alamo crap was going on. U.S. would have been better off without those racist bigots. AEM7AC |
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Re: I guess ny sucks |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sun Dec 23 19:48:34 2007, in response to I guess ny sucks, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Dec 23 15:40:28 2007. I don't know how an illegal gun would change things, but the version I'm reading, didn't sound like these dudes came over as friends. And it sounded like these guys where trying to f around with an unstable guy in his own house as it is.Guns are illegal in New York. Unlike in the South, where if you don't like someone on your property, you shoot them. In the North, where we are civilized, you're not permitted to shoot people or own guns, unless you had a reason to. If someone you don't like is on your property, you should ask them to leave politely. AEM7AC |
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