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| Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death (214163) | |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by BIE on Sat May 5 22:35:00 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Sat May 5 15:12:40 2007. Red meat is fine but you need to watch portion size. Two ounces of LEAN red meat per meal is PLENTY. Round out the diet with vegetables, fruits and a little starch. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun May 6 00:26:03 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 5 17:03:59 2007. From the quoted article: "the couple had successfully raised two children as vegans, but their third child died."Because of that, the verdict was 100% correct. They did starve the baby. I predict the appeal will fail. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 03:01:52 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 5 17:03:59 2007. I'd have to defer to the jury, as they sat through the proceedings.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 03:15:55 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 03:01:52 2007. I'd have to defer to the jury, as they sat through the proceedings. They were there and all we have is one news story to go by, which to me still says negligence and not willful murder. Wack jobs? yes. Fanatics? for sure. Pre-meditated murder? I think not.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 6 07:48:49 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 03:15:55 2007. Zealous prosecutors often will press for murder charges when to any reasonable person what happened was manslaughter (death through reckless behavior that could be expected to possibly cause death). They think it helps their reputations and careers.Similarly, there have been cases of drunken drivers charged with murder. Given that manslaughter can be punished by 15+ years in jail, it's not clear that it makes any real difference, but it does tend to skew the justice system. It tends to devalue the crime of murder. |
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| (214853) | |
Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 08:04:38 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by AlM on Sun May 6 07:48:49 2007. That's a good point. MADD most definitely considers drunken driving fatalaties to be premeditated murder cases.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by JPC on Sun May 6 12:06:36 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 5 16:39:45 2007. Most poor do not have access to such information,How do you not have access to that information? Here's my take on NUTRITION FOR DUMMIES. The nutritional content of most foods is listed on the label, and more information is available for free on the internet, frequently published in newspapers and magazines, and in books at the library. You don't need to spend more than a modest sum (if any at all) to get relevant nutrition invormation. Here's what you need to know: 3 types of fat: Saturated fat: Bad. Limit your intake of this stuff (i.e. add up the percentages on what you eat and don't go above 100% and preferably less). Unsaturated fat: The "good" fat. But you should still limit your intake to reasonable levels because fats, well, make you fat because they're high in calories. TRANS fats - Really, really, really bad. Avoid this completely. There is not a single redeeming virtue of trans fats, and it appears any intake above zero is deleterious to your health. Manufacturers are required to list on the label if TRANS fats are present. Saturated fats typically come from meat sources, unsaturated from plant sources. (There are a few exceptions - fish have some of both, coconuts have loads of saturated fat, and "hydrogenated vegetable oil" is really bad). Fried and otherwise processed foods may also contain significant quantities of trans fat. Dietary Cholesterol: Bad (although not as bad as saturated and trans fats). Add up your intake and don't go much above 100%. Sodium: Try to keep it within reason. If you have high blood pressure, even more so. Calories: Add up the calories - the label suggests a 2,000 calorie diet, which is a good place to start. Big guy = eat more. Little old lady = eat less. If you're very active, eat more. The only thing to know with calories: if you want to lose weight, be sure calories out > calories in. Ok - I'll admit doing that requires some knowledge of math (hard stuff like ADDITION and MULTIPLICATION). You can't expect Americans to know how to add and subtract - what is this, India or something? As far as the rest: Meat - I think everybody knows that certain types of meat (i.e. beef) are very high in FAT. Of course, skin and fat are very high in FAT. And in meat, virtually all of the fat is saturated. Healthier choices are skinless chicken (actually both light and dark meat are good choices) and fish. And you should eat smaller portions than typical restaurant fare, which is just excessive. 1 serving is the size of a deck of cards (or a hamburger), and you shouldn't have more than about 3 "servings" per day. Fruits and vegetables - eat lots of them, and in variety. It's better to eat whole fruits and vegetables rather than juice because juice doesn't give you the fiber and is very high in calories and sugars. One or two glasses of fruit juice a day at most; the rest should come from whole fruits and veggies. By eating in variety (color is a good discriminant - eat green, orange, yellow, red, white, and purple veggies and fruits) you ensure a well-rounded supply of vitamins and minerals, and the few that you don't get from fruits and veggies, you get from modest quantities of dairy or meat. Money's not an issue here, since fresh fruits and vegetables are cheaper than most of the processed crap out there. So by eating right you are actually SAVING money. Grain products - again eat a lot of them, preferably whole grains in preference to refined (white) grains. Fruits, vegetables and grains provide you with FIBER. Fiber for dummies: A. Fiber is like a sponge - absorbs the bad stuff in your intestines. B. Fiber also makes you shit. A lot. C. The upshot of this is that fiber intake results in the bad stuff winding up in the toilet rather than inside your arteries. Dairy - low fat or skim, because the FAT is usually SATURATED (you can get this info from the label), and SATURATED FAT is BAD, mmkay. Sweet stuff - Not too much of this, mmmkay? What else: Exercise: Yes. Get off your ass and do something. Anything. Ok, that's pretty much all you need to know about nutrition. One more thing: an apple a day keeps the doctor away, and if that doctor is Ron-In-Bayside, have 5 of them :) (Just kidding!) |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun May 6 15:20:44 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by JPC on Sun May 6 12:06:36 2007. Hey, you wrote a nice post.I would agree with 99% of what you said. Just a couple of things,though: 1) Omega-3 containing oil is better than Omega 6. Good oil: Cold water fish, Olive, Peanut, Walnut. Not so great: Corn Oil, Safflower, sunflower. Of course all of these are better than saturated fat 2) Cholesterol in the diet is not as much a problem as the fat itself. Your body needs a small amount of cholesterol, because cholesterol is the raw ingredient for making hormones. So if, by chance, you don't take in enough (Ha Ha, on an American diet, that will never happen) your liver starts making it. So what that means is, if you want to have scrambled eggs or over-easy a few times a week, no problem. Eat a strip of bacon once or twice a month if that makes you happy (notice I said one). But hold the home fries and bacon most of the time and substitute fruit, sliced tomato and bell peppers, a little avocado sometimes, apple sauce, cottage cheese. And make sure your HDL is headed up and your LDL goes down. Vigorous exercise helps. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun May 6 15:26:39 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Sun May 6 15:20:44 2007. Vigorous exercise helps.It is so important, possibly the most important. your pal, Fred |
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| (215013) | |
Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by JPC on Sun May 6 21:22:19 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Sun May 6 15:20:44 2007. Thanks Ron for the fill-in. I actually started to write about omega-6 but the post was titled "Nutrition for dummies" so I omitted it.I've actually started taking a fish oil supplement, and small doses of flax oil (as well as a little flax seed with my oatmeal in the morning), and I eat a lot of salmon (at least 2-3x per week). I've been having some issues with my blood pressure over the last year (and my HDL is low and my triglycerides are high), so I've been educating myself a whole lot the last few months. I've dropped 30 lbs since the beginning of February, from a little oveer 200 to a bit over 170 now. I'd like to finally settle in somewhere in the 160's. My BP was 150/90, now around 120/80 (or a bit higher), so I have a little more work to do (or else increase my meds, which I'd prefer to avoid). I've been following the DASH diet, albeit supplemented with extra protein since I also lift weights and don't want to lose too much lean mass (which is what's helping me to lose weight by raising my basal metabolic rate). My sat. fat intake is quite low (<15 and probably more like 10 g/day, my sodium is almost always below 2000 mg and often around 1500 mg or less, although my dietary cholesterol is a bit high (the recommended 300 mg, or somewhat more than that), since even the leanest meats still have cholesterol. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by JPC on Sun May 6 21:22:50 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by JPC on Sun May 6 21:22:19 2007. Oops, that should read omega-3... |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun May 6 21:41:52 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by JPC on Sun May 6 21:22:19 2007. Great! Very nice achievement! You are to be congratulated.You're no dummy, that's for sure! When you eat your salad, try to include a little of the "right" fats in a salad dressing so you absorb the fat soluble vitamins better (A,E). People eating a super-low-fat diet are found, as a side effect, to sometimes not get as much Vit A as they should because there's nothing to "carry" it across the intestinal lining. |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun May 6 22:55:36 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by JPC on Sun May 6 12:06:36 2007. I've lost over 10 pounds in the past six weeks mainly by limiting my starch consumption. Pasta, potatoes, bread products - those were basically my downfall, and I'm keeping my consumption at reasonable levels.Because starchy foods are cheap and often easy to prepare, it's also easy to go way overboard with them. My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death |
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Posted by JPC on Mon May 7 10:03:51 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun May 6 22:55:36 2007. Good job!The calories add up real fast with starchy foods, and it's easy to make HUGE portions of them. |
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