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| Re: Kentucky County Clerk (1311567) | |
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| (1311801) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 10:40:02 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 3 10:36:03 2015. IAWTLOL |
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| (1311802) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 10:40:20 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:31:25 2015. OK.Which still doesn't imply that she has to personally hand-sign any papers. Having a deputy or assistant stamp your official signature onto a document is equivalent to signing it yourself in this case. |
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| (1311804) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 10:53:00 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 10:40:20 2015. And signing either in person or by proxy does not in any way shape or form imply, infer or mean endorsement of anything. It is merely acknowledgment that the legal criteria were me and the document is registeed at "x" office on ”x" date/time.The irony here is that she's basically a timestamper...Where else have we seen controvery over timestamps lately? Lulz. What we have here is someone who has no clue as to the meaning of her job. She should resign. |
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| (1311806) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 3 10:59:31 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:39:21 2015. Why is the president of the KY Senate asking the court to stay its judgement [sic] until the legislature can pass a law exempting Rowan county from requiring the Clerk to sign a marriage license?Perhaps to send a message that in Kentucky, faith-based hatred trumps Constitutional law? |
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| (1311807) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 11:02:36 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 3 10:59:31 2015. Nooo...gee, for a reporter you sure don't bother checking the facts.The KY legislature is not in session and doesn't come back until January. That's why the Senate president asked for a stay. |
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| (1311808) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:03:41 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:32:08 2015. Show me otherwise.Great. So now you've turned into salaamallah. Congratulations. You actually need to be shown that it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the County Clerk of a 750,000 people county to personally sign off on every marriage license in that county? That's not even considering vacation or when said Clerk goes into surgery. |
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| (1311809) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:04:10 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:39:21 2015. Provide for what? Nothing in the statutes you posted imply that “issues” means “personally signs.” Stivers’ brief conforms to that interpretation. So does Davis’ own opposition to the motion. That opposition also cites an article which shows a proposal that would remove clerks’ names from marriage documents. Arguably, if Ms. Davis personal signature were required, and that were the issue here, then any proposal to rectify which would be cited by her lawyers would note that the proposal to create a less restrictive alternative would also obviate a requirement for a personal signature, which is necessarily more restrictive than allowing someone else to sign or stamp in your name. |
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| (1311810) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:05:15 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 10:53:00 2015. Ms. Davis disagrees. I agree she should resign, though. |
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| (1311811) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:05:55 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:33:16 2015. You must be living under the rock you created yourself since it was YOU who said that one can simply go to a different KY county to get a license.That tells me that it's YOU who doesn't believe that the SCOTUS ruling applies to Davis and that county. |
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| (1311812) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:07:30 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:04:10 2015. PWN3D!!!! |
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| (1311813) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 3 11:10:14 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 11:02:36 2015. Yeah, I know, but there is, to my mind, no other conceivable reason for such a law to be passed, other than to make a political statement about gay marriage. |
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| (1311815) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 3 11:13:45 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 10:53:00 2015. But she does not believe the legal criteria is met when it is two people of the same sex. The Supreme Court says otherwise and unless and until they overrule that decision she is obligated to follow, resign or be held in contempt |
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| (1311816) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:14:08 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 3 11:10:14 2015. Actually, Stivers only claims in his brief that the statutes regarding marriage in Kentucky are in conflict and should be revised before anyone should be found in contempt for having violated them. He claims that Ms. Davis and other clerks are faced with a “Hobson’s Choice” whereby the statutes prohibit them from issuing licenses to people whose marriages are prohibited by Kentucky statutes, but there is no penalty for refusing. It is bullshit though as regardless of the text of the statutes, same sex marriages are not in any way prohibited in Kentucky thanks to federal supremacy. |
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| (1311818) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 11:21:16 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:05:15 2015. That's because she apparently doesn't understand her job. |
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| (1311819) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:22:01 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 11:21:16 2015. I don’t agree. |
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| (1311820) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 11:26:38 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 3 11:13:45 2015. Her beliefs have nothing to do with her job. Her job is to process all the paperwork that comes through the office correctly and in a timely manner. Is she going to not process a black family's real estate transaction because they're moving in three doors down from her because some preacher told her she's somehow superior based on a higher risk of developing melanoma and must therefore be kept well separated? |
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| (1311822) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 3 11:48:53 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by bingbong on Thu Sep 3 11:26:38 2015. You are misstating my posts. I believe she should resign, but as you stated earlier part of the function is determining if the legal criteria are met. In a sense by her signature she is giving her blessing because she is saying that same sex couples meet the legal criteria. The Supreme Court said that it does meet the legal criteria so if she won't perform her duties she should resign. |
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| (1311826) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Sep 3 12:20:41 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:30:38 2015. I am asking you, your dumb attempt at an insult fails |
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| (1311827) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Sep 3 12:23:10 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:05:55 2015. Dave is from Texas, did you expect much? |
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| (1311830) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:14:46 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 10:34:32 2015. I think he understands plenty. |
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| (1311831) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:16:16 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 09:28:19 2015. Ha! |
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| (1311832) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:19:43 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Sep 3 12:23:10 2015. wrong |
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| (1311833) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:23:28 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:22:01 2015. +8 |
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| (1311834) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:24:29 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 3 11:48:53 2015. own3d |
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| (1311835) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:24:41 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 10:40:02 2015. me too |
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| (1311836) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk Held In Contempt, Jailed |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 3 13:31:20 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Sep 3 11:48:53 2015. A federal district court judge has held Kim Davis in contempt, and remanded her to US Marshals Service custody, until she complies with court orders to issue marriage licenses. The judge, David Bunning, said a fine was not enough to compel the holdout clerk's compliance. |
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| (1311837) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:42:04 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 11:04:10 2015. I agree. The issue as I see it, based on these posts, is that no matter who in her office actually does the signing and no matter what the method of placing the signature on the document is, it is still her signature in both appearance and legal force. And she doesn't want her signature on these documents. And thus, even if permitted by law, she will not allow anyone else in her office to process the licenses. |
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| (1311838) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:50:35 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:14:46 2015. I don't. |
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| (1311839) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:51:23 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Sep 3 12:20:41 2015. What law in KY ensures public officials can discriminate? |
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| (1311840) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:51:55 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:50:35 2015. Why? This is the first time I recall you disagreeing with him on a matter of law. |
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| (1311841) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:52:57 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:51:23 2015. He's not asking about the law. He's asking about your solution that people should just go to a different county to get the license and no proceed with the lawsuit. |
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| (1311843) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:57:18 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:05:55 2015. Huh?My point was that there is nothing stopping a gay or straight couple from getting married in Rowan Co, KY. They currently can't get a marriage license there but they can get one in a neighboring county and then have their wedding in Rowan Co. This shouldn't impact their suit against Davis. |
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| (1311845) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:59:55 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:52:57 2015. Of course they should proceed with the lawsuit! My point is that there is no reason they can't get married in Rowan Co., just get the license in a neighboring county. |
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| (1311848) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 14:02:19 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 10:39:15 2015. I agree, they shouldn't be inconvenienced. But if they want to get married just drive a few miles to a neighboring county, get the marriage license, and get married back in Rowan Co. Then continue on with the suit. |
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| (1311850) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 14:08:22 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:42:04 2015. You guys crack me up."County Clerks' Guide to Kentucky Marriage Law KRS 402.240 provides that in the absence of the county clerk, or during a vacancy in the office, the county judge/executive may issue the license and, in so doing, he shall perform the duties and incur all the responsibilities of the clerk. The county judge/executive shall return a memorandum to that effect to the clerk and the memorandum shall be recorded as if the license had been issued by the clerk." Where does Kentucky law say that anyone other than the county clerk, except when he/she is absent from office or during a vacancy of office, is authorized to issue a marriage license? |
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| (1311851) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 14:19:21 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:03:41 2015. Are you saying that there is something wrong with "Sallamallah"? You and selkirk both seem to find it acceptable to use him as a negative example. |
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| (1311852) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 14:20:35 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 14:08:22 2015. KRS 402.100(1)(c): "The date and place the license is issued, and the signature of the county clerk or deputy clerk issuing the license." |
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| (1311853) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 14:20:57 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 14:08:22 2015. But if the elected clerk is not available, someone else can perform her duties, as I suggested. Thank you! |
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| (1311855) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 14:28:34 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 14:20:57 2015. No, it doesn’t say that. See here on pages 3-4:According to the testimony offered at the preliminary injunction hearing, Davis was not absent from Rowan County when Plaintiffs requested marriage licenses. (R. 26, Tran. from 07.20.15 Hearing at PageID 231) She testified that she was present in the County and in her office and Judge Executive Blevins testified that it was his understanding that Davis was present when Plaintiffs sought marriage licenses. (Id. at PageID 281 – 282) As a result, Judge Blevins testified that he did not feel he had the authority under KRS 402.240 to issue marriage licenses to the Plaintiffs. (Id. at PageID 231 – 232) The facts, therefore, do not support Davis’ contention that Judge Executive Blevins ever had authority to issue marriage licenses under KRS 402.240. |
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| (1311858) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 14:50:21 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 14:28:34 2015. That does not contradict what I said, that in the clerk's absence, someone else can perform her duties. |
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| (1311859) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 14:57:04 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 14:50:21 2015. No, it does not. But I was right that she does not want to have her subordinates sign on her behalf. |
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| (1311861) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 15:05:42 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 14:57:04 2015. To further demonstrate my point, will all marriages be put on hold while she is in jail? Obviously, someone will do her job while she is away.Regardless of my personal beliefs and the supreme court decision on gay marriage not withstanding, it's still not clear if the current laws can trump her religious beliefs. I think that there are many more acts to be performed before this drama is over. |
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| (1311863) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 3 15:13:21 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Sep 3 13:51:55 2015. Bump. |
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| (1311864) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 3 15:13:29 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 15:05:42 2015. it's still not clear if the current laws can trump her religious beliefsThey can't. She is free to resign her post and be free of any legal interference in her affairs. |
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| (1311865) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 3 15:14:44 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 13:59:55 2015. No, you said it was just for fame. Unless that was someone else. |
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| (1311866) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 15:14:50 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 15:05:42 2015. Judge Bunning has ruled that the deputy clerks must comply. If the County Clerk had to personally sign all marriage licenses, such a ruling wouldn't make any sense. |
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| (1311869) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 3 15:20:48 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by Dave on Thu Sep 3 14:08:22 2015. Huh? Where did I say that anyone else could??? Reread my post! |
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| (1311870) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 3 15:22:09 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by SMAZ on Thu Sep 3 11:03:41 2015. No he didn't turn into a SalaamAllah. |
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| (1311875) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 16:05:38 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 3 15:13:29 2015. Apparently the judge sees it a bit differently |
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| (1311876) | |
Re: Kentucky County Clerk |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 3 16:06:24 2015, in response to Re: Kentucky County Clerk, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Sep 3 16:05:38 2015. How do you figure? |
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