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| Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety (1239782) | |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:50:51 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 11:49:23 2014. No bad post. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Nov 18 18:06:58 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:46:37 2014. Excellent post. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 18 18:10:44 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Nov 18 17:48:19 2014. What law is this? Or is it a rule? |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Nov 18 18:47:23 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 18 18:10:44 2014. +7 |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Tue Nov 18 18:47:28 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 18 18:10:44 2014. I cant honestly point to it, but everyone that drives a NYCTA bus that I know says that is the speed limit and they say DOT. Ill ask and get back to you. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Nov 18 18:50:28 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:50:27 2014. Wrong. It has no credibility among intelligent, rational, objective people. The errors are too numerous to list. And when we've listed them in the past, you just argued and didn't listen. So what's the point? Now we just tell you you're wrong and move on. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Nov 18 18:51:40 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:50:51 2014. No, it was a great post. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Nov 18 19:02:15 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Nov 18 18:47:28 2014. Cool. Thanks. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:39:24 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:50:27 2014. I'm not familiar with Kings Highway or whatever street you're now complaining about. However, I can tell when I'm reading bullshit. I haven't clicked on one of your blog links in ages because you almost never write anything worth reading. Your posts here confirm that.If you think it is safe for people to drive 40 MPH through heavy pedestrian zones, there is a whole ton of data out there that shows that 40 MPH roads are exponentially more dangerous for pedestrians than 25 MPH roads. Thankfully, the concept of complete streets is far more popular than your outdated notions that cars should have priority over everyone else. And before you start preaching to me about how public transit doesn't work for everything, trust me, I know. Sometimes I take buses. Sometimes I walk to where I need to go. Sometimes I take my bike. Sometimes I drive. I can see this from a lot of angles, and it is quite clear to me as a pedestrian, cyclist, and driver you have no clue what you are talking about. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:40:20 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:50:51 2014. Cause it will alert the few people who think you might have a shred of credibility left that you have none? |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 18 22:00:47 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:39:24 2014. +22222 |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 18 22:01:06 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:40:20 2014. Yep |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 22:48:37 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Nov 18 22:00:47 2014. I forgot to mention I hold drivers' licenses from TWO countries. I wonder how many Subchatters can claim that. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Nov 19 00:13:45 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:46:37 2014. Roads are a shared and increasingly scarce resource. Their use places restrictions on individual "freedom of choice" for the common good. There are restrictions on when and where one can drive over-size loads. This is but one example where the common good trumps freedom of choice.City streets used to serve multiple purposes. They were not solely for vehicle use to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible or to be used to store said vehicle. They once served as playgrounds for children. NYC was rich in its number of different street games. NYC is now trying to get a park that is within a short walking distance of every residence. That park was 10 feet from my front door, when I was a child. Not everyone can drive a car. I spent my allowance on Cortlandt Street buying electronics gear. I carried 6 ft. relay racks on the subway. I've owned a car for 50+ years (with off-street parking). I expect I'll be a road hazard in 5 years. I'll give up driving before then. I hope at that time I'll be able to cross streets without getting hit by drivers who believe 40+ mph is safe. Cars are a greater threat to me as a pedestrian than muggers. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Nov 19 09:22:03 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Nov 19 00:13:45 2014. I hope at that time I'll be able to cross streets without getting hit by drivers who believe 40+ mph is safe. Cars are a greater threat to me as a pedestrian than muggers.I agree that cars are a greater threat than muggers. But maybe because I am Manhattan-oriented I don't find it to be speeding that's the issue, it's reckless failure to yield. To me, the biggest danger is the vehicle driver who makes a turn, usually at about 20 mph, and fails to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk. SUVs and trucks are pretty dangerous even at 20 because they will smash the entire body; at least with a compact car the victim's legs will get hit and he'll end up sprawled on the hood, hurt but alive. An acquaintance of mine was killed by a turning SUV and I see this type of recklessness (usually not resulting in injuries) almost every day of my life. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 09:34:15 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by AlM on Wed Nov 19 09:22:03 2014. I agree with you and too often these people get away unpunished. The amount of good that lowering the speed limit will do has been greatly exaggerated, while the harm it will do has been completely overlooked. You don't punish everyone for the actions of a few who will continue to speed irresponsibly with a lowered speed limit. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 09:59:24 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by AlM on Wed Nov 19 09:22:03 2014. I agree with you and too often these people get away unpunished. The amount of good that lowering the speed limit will do has been greatly exaggerated, while the harm it will do has been completely overlooked. You don't punish everyone for the actions of a few who will continue to speed irresponsibly with a lowered speed limit. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Nov 19 10:46:02 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 22:48:37 2014. I have THREE.(Yeah OK,one of them expired) |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:37:31 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:40:20 2014. Funny why I get so any compliments regarding my posts. One even asked me how I have so much patience to put up with the few closed minded naysayers. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:39:24 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Nov 18 18:50:28 2014. The only error you have ever mentioned is the Atlantic Avenue elevators. You keep repeating the saw error. You can't think of any others so you just say they are too numerous to mention. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:44:39 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Nov 18 19:39:24 2014. First of all, you can at least get it right what I am complaining about. It's not Kings Highway.Second I have never said it is safe to drive 40 mph through heavy pedestrian zones unless you define the entire New York City as a heavy pedestrian zone. If that is how you feel, then it is obvious that you ave never been to a low rise residential area in NYC which there are plenty of. In fact most of the New York City land area is not high rise or mid rise, but low rise. Third, buses are mass transit. From your comments, you obviously do not see all angles. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 11:49:58 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:37:31 2014. I can think of several explanations for that which don't change what I and others here are saying. First off, whoever runs Sheepshead Bites or whatever it is called must be getting pageviews for your stuff, fact checking and other quality issues aside. Criticizing transit agencies while not knowing much about what you are taking about is pretty easy to do in the blogging era and many people on the Internet have no idea how to tell the difference between a sensible argument and utter BS. This board is often an example of that. Secondly, at this point, those of us who can smell BS when we see it have stopped reading your blog, so now you have an echo chamber filled with the yes-men who for whatever reason want to believe in what you are writing. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:49:59 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by ClearAspect on Tue Nov 18 18:47:28 2014. Please do because if it is true then buses are breaking the law all the time because they are constantly exceeding 25 mph on local streets. SBS buses along Nostrand were doing 30 mph encore the speed limit was lowered. When I get a chance, I will see if they are now doing 20 mph or under.Just yesterday I was doing 28 mph on Oriental Blvd where the speed limit is still 30 mph. (Guarantee you it will be lowered to 25 mph.) A bus was directly behind me tailgating me at the same speed. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 11:56:51 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 11:44:39 2014. Are you now suggesting that it is good policy to have a 40 MPH in low rise residential parts of NYC? If there are roads in New York being nicknamed boulevards of death because pedestrians can't cross safely, then those are areas where it makes sense to consider what can be done to ensure that pedestrians can cross the street safely.Where did I say that buses weren't mass transit? What does that have to do with anything? What angle am I not seeing? That you think you should be able to drive 40 MPH with your groceries and that getting home before your frozen goods thaw out is more important than a pedestrian possibly losing life or limbs? |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 12:19:43 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 11:49:58 2014. Criticizing transit agencies while not knowing much about what I am talking about?I have more credentials to give my opinion on mass transit issues than the vast majority of people posting on this board. I have a two year Masters Degree in Urban Planning from Columbia University with a concentration in Urban Planning. I wrote my thesis on the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of bus service in Brooklyn. Of the over fifty routing recommendations I made in 1973, about 20 are now reality. Eight of those changes were made as a result of the seven years I was a planner at the NYC Department of City Planning. I then went on to working for the MTA for almost 25 years, serving in seven different departments so I got a broad perspective of how the agency operates. Also, I do not always criticize the MTA. I have defended them on a number of occasions. Since you admit to not even reading the blog, of course you are unaware of all my writings. You just choose to remember my posts where I am trying to be fair to everyone and that includes drivers of automobiles. As far as my readers being only "yes men", that is also untrue. There are several faithful readers who constantly intelligently discuss their opposing viewpoints. You, however, have decided to only read those who you agree with, because you have the fear that someone may say something intelligent that may force you to rethink your positions and step out of your comfort zone. You would rather not say to yourself, "maybe he has a point here", but would rather just block out all opposing opinions to those of your own. Of course I am criticized. Anyone who says or does anything worthwhile has critics. Nothing that is done which is worthwhile, did not have critics. The Eiffel Tower was greatly criticized when it was built, so was every great inventor like Albert Einstein. Anyone who writes meaningless dribble that everyone agrees with such as crime should go down, we need more jobs, identity theft is bad, our kids need a better education, we must stop harming the environment, everyone needs to be tolerant, sexual harassment is a bad thing, women should get equal pay for equal work, our tax structure should be fair devoid of loopholes, etc, of course will not receive any criticism. But write about something meaningful, then the critics come out of the woodwork. Those who read what you write and agree most likely will not comment. That is reality. That what is meant by the silent majority. If I do not know what I am talking about, I would not have been given a forum which I did not ask for. I was invited to write and do it without any compensation. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 13:33:16 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 12:19:43 2014. A simple Google search in to the past posts you've made on this site suggests you have trouble with logical thinking patterns and jump to poor conclusions when you analyze "data." I stand by what I wrote, especially since you have been unable to explain to me what perspective on complete streets I'm missing, especially in light of the data that shows that the difference between a 25 MPH and 35 MPH speed limit could be the difference between life and death for a pedestrian in an accident. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 14:24:11 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 11:56:51 2014. I misread what you wrote. You did not state buses are not mass transit. That aside...There are many streets where drivers safely and do drive at 40 mph which is now 15 miles over the legal speed limit. There is one street that was nicknamed "the Boulevard of Death" and that was done by the media always looking for sensationalism. The newspapers quickly picked up on it to sell newspapers. The street was Queens Boulevard and it had legitimate problems. The main one was that there was inadequate time for the walk signal which did not permit you to cross the entire street on one signal. You had to pause midway and wait for he next one. Many people were too impatient to wait and tried unsuccessfully to out run cars. Then you had those crossing mid-block. Cars going safely at 40 mph were not able to stop in time because the pedestrians had no business being there in the first place. That is what led to the high number of injuries and fatalities. Speeding cars was not a major cause of the problems that existed. Of course a few idiots were doing 50 or over and those idiots will continue to drive at those speeds even at a 25 mph limit. DOT studied the street and undertook a number of changes to remedy the problem and this was all before Vision Zero. First they greatly increased the walk signal permitting someone who starts at the beginning of the walk cycle to completely cross the street at a leisurely pace before the signal turned red. That solved most of the problems. They also installed fencing along the medians where a high number of pedestrians were crossing forcing people to cross only at the corners. Of course there are still a few who will insist on crossing mid-block by jumping the fences. They added parking along the service roads to create more congestion and force cars to drive slower. Of course the merchants were all for that. Drivers opinions were not solicited. Finally they reduced the speed limit from 35 to 30 mph which didn't make the slightest difference since drivers are still safely driving at 40 mph. However, all the other measures together had a huge impact in increasing pedestrian safety. DOT therefore hailed the new speed limit as a success. Still not satisfied, people such as yourself insisted that the speed limit should have been lowered to 25 mph. DOT refused. Commissioner Trottenberg stated that DOT engineers have studied the boulevard and have concluded that 30 mph is the proper speed limit for the street. But the pressure primarily from Transportation Alternatives continued and word has it that the speed limit will again be lowered this time to what they are asking 25 mph. Yet some believe that only 20 mph should be the limit wherever a pedestrian needs to cross the street? When will this nonsense stop? At a speed limit of 10 mph or 0 mph? There are other factors that need to be considered other than pedestrian injuries and fatalities that have been totally ignored. Those are the factors i have been discussing in my articles. Now that Queens Blvd is no longer the most dangerous street in Queens, now Woodhaven Blvd is targeted with a fatality rate of four per year. There will always be a "most dangerous" street even at one fatality per year. We don't take a drug off the market because of a single fatality. Commercials even warn you that fatalities are possible (to avoid potential liability) when taking the drug. Well guess what? Fatalities are possible in most anything we do even taking a bath where people slip and fall and are killed. Should we stop taking baths? So like everything else it is a possibility too, though a very small possibility when crossing the street that you may be killed. Does that mean we shoudn't try to make streets safer? Of course not. But everything has to be put into perspective and this entire thing about pedestrian deaths has totally been blown out of proportion. What percentage of people safely cross the street each and every day without incident? Tens of millions. How many are killed each year 182? So what is your chance of safely crossing the street? 99.999999999%. A speed limit of 25 mph on the service roads of Queens Blvd may be appropriate because of parked cars and pedestrians and where there are no service roads, although I think it still should be 30 in those areas. 25 mph is not appropriate for the main roadway where pedestrians only cross at corners and parked cars are not an issue. The lanes are wide enough and with a four second amber light at intersections, a 40 mph speed limit is perfectly appropriate and safe. This will not cause drivers to drives faster than they are currently driving, but will cause them to pay more attention to speed limits which is what we want anyway. Those are the angles you are not seeing. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 14:28:19 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 13:33:16 2014. I have just responded to your questions.My logical thinking patterns made me take more than five minutes to respond, unlike your quick answers you can knock out in 30 seconds. Sorry if you expected your question of what angles you are missing to be quickly answered. You are missing so many angles that my response took me over a half hour. Perhaps it was not even worth the effort. We will see. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 17:33:50 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 14:24:11 2014. The number of contradictory statements in this post is revealing.What is the speed limit on Queens Boulevard now? What was it before Vision Zero? You throw out multiple numbers, yet you can't seem to settle on one. You claim "Boulevard of Death" was a sensationalist headline created by the media, but you acknowledge that conditions for the pedestrians were not safe and the cars were driving at 40 MPH. At no point do you ever consider the mountain of data that shows in addition to lengthening the walk signal and putting up fences in medians, that pedestrians walk away from accident scenes at an exponentially higher rate when the speed limit is 25 or 30 MPH as opposed to 40. You also acknowledge that the DOT engineers say that 30 MPH is the appropriate speed for the street, not 40. I find your claims that it was "safe" to drive at 40 MPH to be dubious. There are more automobile crashes on Queens Boulevard than on any other road in all of New York State. Clearly, something is wrong in that corridor. Also, your claim that there is a 99.999999999% chance that I'll cross the street safely is loaded. Clearly that isn't the case on Queens Boulevard and other corridors. It's a nice citywide statistic and probably true, but stats can change quickly once you start to consider them in different ways. Your comparison about taking drugs off the market is irrelevant. It's true, we wouldn't shelve a drug for one fatality. But what about multiple fatalities in a fairly short period of time? Or would you just say people should try their luck and hope the medication won't kill them? A 25-35 MPH limit is probably most appropriate for Queens Boulevard. Not 40. As for your insistence that most of the problems are solved, I still have trouble believing you're often a pedestrian, except when you go out to watch B1 and B49 buses pass you up so you have material for your blog. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 18:44:37 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 19 17:33:50 2014. The Queens Blvd speed limit since 1996 when I started using it on a daily basis was 35 mph. It may have even been 40 mph before that. I wouldn't know. It was lowered to 30 mph during the last term of the Bloomberg Administration as part of DOT's efforts to reduce accidents on Queens Blvd before Vision Zero.Since Vision Zero have been attempts to lower it to 25 mph. Now a question for you, if DOT engineers believe 30 mph is the correct speed, which I disagree with because I'm entitled to disagree, why would the City lower the speed further to 25 mph? Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd are both very long streets and would tend to have more accidents than shorter streets. To get a fair picture of how dangerous a street is you measure accidents, serious injuries, or deaths on a per mile basis, not by street name and you analyze the causes for those accidents. You don't just attribute speed as the cause and conclude the speed limit should be lowered because of the single survival statistic you keep referring to. If Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvd, its extension, had the same name, would the street become more dangerous? By just looking at street names, it would, but in reality it wouldn't be any more dangerous. Also, how many of the Queens Blvd accidents that you attribute to making it the most dangerous road in New York State, occurred on the portion with the #7 line down the center, and how many on the portion with the service roads or the divided road without service roads south of Borough Hall? That's three different street configurations that you are lumping into one because it is all called Queens Blvd. If they rename the portion of the street where the #7 line operates, woud the street become any safer? Of course not. But according to the way you and DOT are analyzing the situation the number of accidents would be severely reduced making "Queens Blvd" a safer street. As far as drugs are concerned, there is a certain fatality standard that must not be exceeded during the required 15 year testing period (approximate) before the FDA approves them. Something like 1 death in 100,000 is considered permissable. it is doubtful that many people are all of a sudden going to start dying more frequently after 15 years. If a road fatality rate of 4 per year, all of a sudden becomes 8 per year, it could be the result of a single accident, not because the road has mysteriously become twice as dangerous. Though people like you would claim that it did. I am probably a pedestrian 50 percent of the time. I walk more than you think I do. Sometimes I don't get inside my car for three days at a time. I walk or take the bus for short trips and the train for trips to Manhattan and for a trip to my dentist in Brooklyn. I also used to use my bike for short trips but stopped biking for personal reasons because my sister was killed in a bike accident after spending 7 years in a coma. And she was not hit by a car. I use the bus when I have the option of walking. I do not want to ever be in the position where I am waiting 45 minutes in the cold or rain for a bus that doesn't come and I will have to call a cab, so I drive. I was in that position often when I was younger and I think I deserve better now that I am a senior so I choose to drive. Does that make me an evil person in your eyes? I still have not stopped fighting for better mass transit, which I have devoted my life to. I organized the community to fight for the successful return of the B4 which I do not even use. And I will continue to fight. Right now I am involved with the reactivation effort of the Rockaway Beach Line which isn't even in my home borough. You think you know everything about me, but you don't. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 20 11:12:28 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by rkba on Tue Nov 18 10:51:23 2014. However, the term "school days" can be ambiguous. If you go to Williamsburg Brooklyn on a Sunday, it is a school day. Someone not familiar with the area might not realize that, but the ten school buses on virtually every block at dismissal times should be a hint. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by rkba on Thu Nov 20 11:17:21 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 20 11:12:28 2014. that's why it's deliberately ambiguous as to which days are "school days." do you think the locals in williamsburg would have let that fly under their radar? |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 20 18:09:52 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by rkba on Thu Nov 20 11:17:21 2014. I haven't seen school zone or school crossing signs that say "Including Sunday" the think the locals just assume everyone knows that Sunday is a school day. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by fdtutf on Sat Nov 22 18:49:48 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 14:24:11 2014. We don't take a drug off the market because of a single fatality. Commercials even warn you that fatalities are possible (to avoid potential liability) when taking the drug. Well guess what? Fatalities are possible in most anything we do even taking a bath where people slip and fall and are killed. Should we stop taking baths?One reason this is a poor analogy to pedestrian deaths is that, in the case of drugs, the person deriving benefit from taking the drug and the person at risk of death from the drug are the same person. As a pedestrian, I derive zero benefit from your driving, yet I'm exposed to a risk of death from your driving. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Nov 22 22:59:37 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by fdtutf on Sat Nov 22 18:49:48 2014. OWNED |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 09:56:41 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by fdtutf on Sat Nov 22 18:49:48 2014. I do not see how that makes it a poor analogy.Using your logic that pedestrians derive zero benefit from someone driving but are exposed to a risk of death from that driving, we can further conclude that you are also in favor of gun control. That means that no one (except possibly police) should have the right to own a gun, and we do not consider any other factors like allowing hunters to hunt using guns. That's because the person who may be hit by a gun derives zero benefit from the person owning the gun but is exposed to a risk of death by that gun. Are you in favor of gun control and if sondo you believe that we only need to consider a single factor in determining if we allow guns or not. Because that is exactly what you are doing by concluding speed limiits need to be lowered because one person may be killed by a speeding car, making a decision by considering only a single factor. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 24 11:43:09 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 09:56:41 2014. Of course he's in favor of gun control. What intelligent rational person isn't? You think there are intelligent rational people who want zero laws governing guns/weapons? |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Nov 24 11:46:34 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 24 11:43:09 2014. jpfo.org |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 25 23:42:14 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Nov 24 11:43:09 2014. Who said no gun control means zero laws?Everything isn't black and white. Many intelligent rational people aren't against all gun control but support the right to own a gun for protection or hunting purposes and are also in favor of keeping guns out of the wrong hands such as the mentally ill with strong background checks. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 26 00:13:56 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 09:56:41 2014. It is a poor analogy and it is why I and others here find it hard to take much of what you post too seriously. It simply doesn't make much sense a lot of the time.I'm not sure what gun control has to do with the topic at hand, but I do know that there is a significant amount of data that shows how speed kills. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 26 00:16:58 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 18:44:37 2014. You can claim to fight for mass transit all you want, but that doesn't mean you necessarily post or write logical things. I probably don't know everything about you, but I know what you post here and base my statements off those posts that you write yourself. Those posts tell me plenty. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Nov 26 07:20:26 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 25 23:42:14 2014. You said no gun control. That means zero laws. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Nov 26 07:25:50 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 26 00:13:56 2014. Owned. |
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Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Wed Nov 26 07:26:12 2014, in response to Re: How to Meaningfully Improve Traffic Safety, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Nov 26 00:16:58 2014. Exactly. |
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