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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:06:28 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Apr 20 11:32:31 2014. That you wouldn't listen simply proves that you are irrational.You might want to look up the phrase "ad hominem." Arguing that something is wrong because it's me saying it is pretty much the dictionary definition of that phrase. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:07:32 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 20 10:51:41 2014. Fine. Swap country for territory if it makes you feel better.Though if Palestine is not a country and Israel is the only entity making a claim on it, then how come its residents are not Israeli citizens? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:18:42 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 20 11:01:47 2014. I believe that it is inherently wrong to declare people less than full citizens in order to maintain the "proper" racial or religious demographics for any country. If natural demographic shifts occur afterwards, then I really don't care.So what do you think of Saudi Arabia's persecution of non-Muslims? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:33:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 20 20:31:56 2014. Given your general misuse of language, you'll need to define "Southern Syria revanchist" for me. After all, you think "right-wing" means "European feudalism" and you think "left-wing" means "physically exists." |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:42:44 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 20 11:00:19 2014. There are lots of states throughout the world where one religion's adherents make up the majority of the population. Why can't there be a state where Judaism is the religion of the majority?You're conflating the existence of a state where a particular religion's adherents are a majority due to natural social trends and a state where a particular religion's adherents are a majority because the state intervenes to enforce it. There's nothing particularly wrong with a particular religion's adherents forming the majority of the population, but there is everything wrong with using government fiat to enforce the "correct" religion's majority status. That's why I asked— what do you think of Saudi Arabia's treatment of non-Muslims? I have said time and time again on this board and in this thread somewhere that a Palestinian state needs to be created to ensure Israel remains Jewish and democratic. Enforcing a particular religion's majority status is called "theocracy." I don't support that. And that you conflate Israel losing its Jewish majority to shifting demographics with an end to democracy reveals your own prejudice. As I asked you elsewhere in this thread, exactly what country is Israel occupying? Palestine has never been established as a country. Egypt makes no claim to Gaza and Jordan makes no claim to the West Bank. If you want to call them Disputed Territories, I'm quite OK with that, but Israel isn't occupying anything. Call it what you like, Israel effectively exercises control over Gaza and the West Bank. Gazans have no desire to be Israeli citizens, so that isn't an option. Source? Also, citizens of a country generally don't set out to destroy their own country. You have a rather expansive definition of "destroy" so I'd better tread carefully here. I can't help but wonder how many violent attacks are motivated by the poverty therein. If you believe the right to travel is absolute, then you would demand that BOTH Egypt AND Israel lift their blockades on Gaza. You've put the onus on Israel. See, there you go again with your ridiculous assumptions. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Mon May 5 18:09:00 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 15:46:27 2014. So you think it is ok for the Hamas Government of Gaza to lob missiles at will into Israel.But you do not think it is ok for Israel to respond. Yuh Huh indeed! Thanks for proving again what you are |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 18:11:09 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Mon May 5 18:09:00 2014. So you think it is ok for the Hamas Government of Gaza to lob missiles at will into Israel.There you go again with the bullshit assumptions. You know, I'm a member of the Association for the Prevention of Cruelty to Straw Men and I must object to your constant abuse of the poor things. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon May 5 18:16:24 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 15:47:22 2014. You have no fucken clue. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Mon May 5 18:58:00 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon May 5 18:16:24 2014. +10000 |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:17:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:05:19 2014. Since this post was made |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:19:50 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:07:32 2014. Because Israel did not intend to maintain control of the territory for this long, they expected a Palestinian state to be created relatively quickly. Also, these people wouldn't be interested in accepting Israeli citizenship if it was offered to them at this point in time. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:20:56 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 16:18:42 2014. Right, so to maintain the proper demographics, Israel would like for another country to be created to absorb those people. However, Israel would not like that country to be sworn to destroying Israel. See the problem here? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:23:23 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:19:50 2014. Israel should maintain control of their territory, it's part of Israel. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon May 5 19:29:33 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:19:50 2014. Also, these people wouldn't be interested in accepting Israeli citizenship if it was offered to them at this point in time.Are you sure about that? I would think granting all the Palestinians full Israeli citizenship would be a huge stick in Israel's eye. It would also greatly facilitate the whole "right of return" issue, because technically they would have the privilege of moving anywhere around Israel. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:32:28 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Mon May 5 19:29:33 2014. I'm fairly confident in what I wrote at this point. Israeli Arabs tend to want to live in Israel but support the creation of a Palestinian state. I'm not sure what the current thoughts of people in Area A are but I don't get the sense they overwhelmingly want Israeli citizenship. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:34:31 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:32:28 2014. The so-called palestinians have their own homeland. It's called the anywhere but Israel. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by DaND124 on Mon May 5 19:36:55 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:34:31 2014. So you're ok with them moving to the United States? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:38:02 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by DaND124 on Mon May 5 19:36:55 2014. Of course not. But they're here already. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 5 20:04:47 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:34:31 2014. so do you..its anywhere but the USA.So go find it. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 5 20:05:21 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 5 19:38:02 2014. so are you..so leave already. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:20:29 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:17:36 2014. Reading comprehension is not your forte, is it? I said that the history of what happened in 1967 has no bearing on the current limbo in which the Palestinian territories are kept, not that there was no history before 1967. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon May 5 20:22:44 2014, in response to Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Apr 13 10:46:30 2014. And the Palestinian students have the nerve to complain? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:24:02 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:20:56 2014. You keep failing to grasp the point— Israel should not be trying to control the demographics of its population by fiat. The problem is that you insist Israel must be majority-Jewish at all costs and then complain I'm not effectively managing those costs.Why does a second country need to be created for the purpose of "absorbing" people who are being kicked out of Israel to maintain the supremacy of the Superior Demographic? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by DaND124 on Mon May 5 20:26:48 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:24:02 2014. Why does a second country need to be created for the purpose of "absorbing" people who are being kicked out of Israel who's being kicked out of Israel? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:27:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by DaND124 on Mon May 5 20:26:48 2014. WMATA is talking about a second country being created to absorb the people who must not be granted full Israeli citizenship lest the proper population demographics not be maintained. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 5 20:56:52 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:27:59 2014. Why is Israel obligated to annex conquered territory? The US didn't annex Japan and at the same time the Japanese didn't attack US interests after the Japanese surrendered. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon May 5 20:57:43 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 16 20:53:54 2014. weren't Israel and Jordan linked in the past until they were separated?who separated them? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:58:33 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 5 20:56:52 2014. I don't care what Israel does, but they have to either annex it or leave it alone— not effectively control it while denying rights to its residents. |
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Posted by Gamera on Mon May 5 21:19:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 20:58:33 2014. What about the fact that the Hamas Regime in Gaza is maintaining a state of war with Israel and continues to aim missiles over the border? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon May 5 21:58:14 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Edwards! on Mon May 5 20:05:21 2014. You're a racist. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 22:48:02 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Mon May 5 21:19:01 2014. When people are desperate, they will cling to any promise no matter how tenuous. Having been kept in poverty by Israel, the people elected Hamas— them providing minimal social services when no one else was being a factor behind their decision.Hamas is a monster Israel created— they certainly can't use its existence to justify further oppression. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 22:48:38 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon May 5 21:58:14 2014. Link or it didn't happen. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon May 5 23:03:16 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 5 19:32:28 2014. I'm not sure what the current thoughts of people in Area A are but I don't get the sense they overwhelmingly want Israeli citizenship.It could be they don't "want" it because it's less plausible than getting their own state. Plus, the PA and Hamas would probably have to give up a big chunk of their power for at least the short term. However, if seriously offered to them, I can't believe they'd be stupid enough to turn it down, if for no other reason than a chance to infiltrate and undermine Israel. They could do more than all the rockets in the past 10 years, IMO. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 5 23:25:52 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Mon May 5 23:03:16 2014. IINM Israeli citizenship is what more intellectual Palestinians want, since they know that it would likely mean that Israel would become Palestine in time. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 6 03:31:02 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon May 5 21:58:14 2014. die already.other people can use the air you are wasting. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Tue May 6 06:44:41 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 22:48:02 2014. Figures you would excuse the rocket attacks on Israel. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:47:19 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Tue May 6 06:44:41 2014. You know, as a member of the Association for the Prevention of Cruelty to Straw Men, I find it offensive that you continuously attack our straw-filled friends.Try addressing my actual beliefs instead of repeatedly attacking the random bullshit you arbitrarily assume I believe. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Tue May 6 10:15:46 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:47:19 2014. Why don't you address the rocket attacks. If the Gazans want peace then they need to stop the attacks otherwise they have only themselves to blame for the sanctions |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 10:26:03 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Tue May 6 10:15:46 2014. How do you want me to "address" them?Although claiming they have "only themselves to blame" is nonsense. Rocket attacks are a decidedly disproportionate response to being impoverished and not helping their case (to understate) but it's not like the rocket attacks are occurring in a vacuum. That was my point— desperate people elect violent thugs who promise to make things better, and Israel holds at least some responsibility for their desperation. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 10:47:57 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 10:26:03 2014. But your assuming that those desperate people at some point only wanted economic prosperity and peaceful coexistence with Israel, and Israel oppressed them for it. That is not the case. The Palestinian leadership's goals have always been the destruction of Israel, and the Palestinian people have only cared to follow those kinds of leaders. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 11:23:37 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 15:47:22 2014. In that case, why are they trying to control it?1) The Palestinians elected a known terrorist organization to be their leaders, 2) the terrorists didn't renounce their ways, nor have they kept a rein on their terrorist brethren, or even recognized Israel's right to exist. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 16:45:15 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 10:47:57 2014. The goals of America's leadership differ dramatically from those of its population.Desperate people resort to desperate measures— Hamas won votes because they provided basic social services when nobody else did. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 16:57:33 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 11:23:37 2014. Israel was trying to control Gaza long before Hamas was elected. As I've previously explained, desperate people resort to desperate measures— electing thugs who make empty promises or provide minimal services when no one else does is hardly unique to Palestine. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 17:05:15 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 16:45:15 2014. Then maybe the Palestinians should vote for someone who focuses less on being aggressive with their larger and more powerful neighbor and focuses more on improving the well-being of the civilian populace, considering that those aggressive actions have been fairly counterproductive. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 17:12:30 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 16:57:33 2014. But not at the level of "oppression" it's at now. When the Israelis relinquished internal control of Gaza, they had a chance to try something new. They blew it. And if they were really desperate, they'd get themselves some actual responsible leaders, assuming they haven't been assassinated yet, unless they want to wait for Hamas to finish their on-the-job training course. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:13:17 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 17:05:15 2014. Maybe Israel shouldn't keep Palestine impoverished to the point that their residents are willing to vote for anybody who offers them hope, no matter how tenuous?Though keep in mind that while rocket attacks against civilians are never justified, being pissed as Israel certainly is. It's not hard to understand why they might be willing to support the organisation with an aggressive approach to dealing with the source of their woes. |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:23:55 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Tue May 6 17:12:30 2014. And if they were really desperate, they'd get themselves some actual responsible leaders...What part of this is confusing you? Desperate people do not behave as rationally as reasonably stable people. Desperation drives people to cling to any hope, no matter how tenuous, even if it results in ill-advised choice of leadership. This has been seen time and again throughout history— Golden Dawn, Mugabe, Castro, Hitler, and many others. Easing their economic plight would go a long way towards diminishing the legitimacy of groups like Hamas. On the other hand, pointing to Palestine's elected leadership and declaring them justification for further sanctions legitimises them— that people will rally around their leaders when faced with an external threat has also been seen time and again throughout history, such as America's ill-advised support for Bush shortly after the 9/11 attacks. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 6 17:23:58 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:13:17 2014. Israel is keeping Palestine impoverished? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 6 18:21:22 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 17:23:55 2014. So you're blaming Israel for the Palestinians' economic plight? Horseshit. Here's why.If the Palestinian people are facing an economic plight, the blame lies first and foremost with Palestinian leadership. Europe has been giving the PA millions for decades now. Before he died, much of it ended up in Arafat's pocket - while "suffering for Palestinian rights", he secretly acquired a luxury apartment in Paris for his wife. It was no secret that Arafat was corrupt financially as the day is long. And where are the oil rich Arab countries like Saudi Arabia? Why aren't they sending some of their trillions to Gaza and the West Bank? And maybe, just maybe, if the PA and Hamas spent some of that aid money in building infrastructure in Gaza and the West Bank, maybe some Palestinians would actually have jobs. Instead, they're all hanging out on streets. The bottom line is this: Hamas, and to a lesser extent the PA, are not interested in "easing the economic plight" of the Palestinian people. They want that money for themselves; in addition, they have a vested interest in keeping the Palestinians poor and angry - otherwise, they'd be out of a job. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 6 18:25:05 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Mitch45 on Tue May 6 18:21:22 2014. According to LuchAAA, that's a "w1n" for Oberstgruppenführer Nilet. Truth be damned.The "Palestinians" are oppressed in earnest by Hamas first and Fatah second—and Israel never. Hamas and Fatah are all about the one-state solution. |
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