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M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011 Video: NY1 newsThe Select Bus Service is lauded for its convenience. “You can get on the bus, you don’t have to wait for people to pay their fare. It’s a great service,” said rider Maria Nieves. However, some passengers are dealing with payment problems. In theory, the service is faster in part because passengers pay before boarding by swiping their MetroCards through vending machines and getting a ticket as proof of payment. However, Nieves said that in January she got on without a ticket because the machine at her stop was broken. “The bus was coming, so I felt since it was a monthly pass we had indeed paid our fare,” said Nieves. Metropolitan Transportation Authority rules say riders must have a ticket before boarding. Nieves got a summons during a random check. She wasn't about to pay. “I'm not going to lose time off, a vacation day, to go and fight the transit system. It's not fair,” said Nieves. She did some digging and found out something interesting: every time a MetroCard is used, it’s recorded in the system. The MTA can produce a printout showing all of a card’s transactions. Nieves had already tossed that card by the time she found out, though. She didn't have its number to get the printout that could help her. “It's back and forth, get this, get that. I called 311, I even called the transit authority — ‘oh no, I don't know what department.’ There's not enough information. They don't tell you how to get the information,” said Nieves. MTA officials said Nieves can send a letter requesting the service records for the machine she used the day she got her ticket. Still, that doesn’t help out in the immediate future. “If I don't have a ticket, I will not get on the bus,” said Nieves. Officials say that’s a good idea, because inspectors can't immediately verify whether a machine is out. Without a printed SBS ticket, officials say to wait for the local bus, even if it adds time. NY1 will continue to follow Maria Nieves’ story. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by kahlua on Fri Aug 12 07:53:34 2011, in response to M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011. This is ridiculous... Why cant they just use on-board validation for Metrocard holders? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 08:01:37 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by kahlua on Fri Aug 12 07:53:34 2011. Crowded buses??? The whole point was to significantly speed up boarding. Forcing metrocard holders to make their way past or to an onboard validator would likely kill any chance of that. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 12 11:36:38 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 08:01:37 2011. They manage to do it all over Europe without significant delays... |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 12:47:13 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 12 11:36:38 2011. RFID vs magnetic strip? Buses aren't as crowded? Streets aren't as busy? And are you talking about BRT routes where they are trying to maximize time savings? And do those same or different agencies also have off-board payment for other routes? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by kahlua on Fri Aug 12 15:48:50 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 12:47:13 2011. "RFID vs magnetic strip? Buses aren't as crowded? Streets aren't as busy?"So are you saying that the MTA's implementation of BRT was ill-conceived? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 19:49:05 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by kahlua on Fri Aug 12 15:48:50 2011. Whoa, I said nothing of the sort. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by UTC Bus Roster on Fri Aug 12 22:30:19 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 19:49:05 2011. A trolling we will go! |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Aug 13 13:25:20 2011, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 12 12:47:13 2011. Magnetic strip in my experience. Buses far more crowded than in New York I would say in many cases. Streets are certainly very busy. These aren't BRT routes in the same sense as in the US, since non-POP routes are virtually unheard of these days in Europe that have POP, and the validation is always on board from what I can remember in Italy, Hungary, and Switzerland. The only pre-boarding validation is on Metro lines or commuter rail/long distance trains. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by The I Man on Sat Aug 13 13:56:29 2011, in response to M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011. Are they breaking down because of overuse, vandalism or poor design? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by fset on Mon Aug 18 10:04:48 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by The I Man on Sat Aug 13 13:56:29 2011. For over 6 weeks, the ticket machine at 2nd Ave & E 14 Street has been without power. I sent a complaint to MTA:Customer By CSS Web (08/04/2014 10:28 PM) MVM-10067 and MVM-10049,in Manhattan, for the M15-SBS are still without power, after 3 weeks. The contractor installed a new bus shelter, but there is no power the these two machines, 10067 and 10049. This forces me and other handicapped riders to get off the next stop to get a ticket to ride the M15-SBS. When will this be fixed? --- MTA Reply: MVM at East 14 St & 2nd Ave MVM-10067 & MVM-10049 Discussion Thread Response By Email (Art Kelly) (08/13/2014 04:09 PM) This is in response to your email. We regret the delay in getting the fare machines up and running. The contractor performing the necessary electrical work is expected to finish his work by August 22. We appreciate your patience and concern. Art Kelly Manager, Customer email & Correspondence |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Aug 18 11:07:45 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 12 11:36:38 2011. And they do it in San Francisco subway stations. I've seen fare inspectors with handheld machines to validate fare cards. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by The silence on Mon Aug 18 12:45:54 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by kahlua on Fri Aug 12 07:53:34 2011. Cause that would just loop back to the issues the MTA wanted to avoid by making the fare system off board in the first place.The M15 is a very busy route, there are some stop's I'd dare say get more riders than some subway stations. Having everyone use an oboard validation machine would not help. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 18 12:54:05 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Aug 13 13:25:20 2011. I've never experienced magnetic strip on-board self-validation. When I rode buses in London, I just tapped my Oyster. I can't see how bus loads of people on the M15 SBS could efficiently self-validate magnetic strip metrocards on-board. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 18 22:19:34 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 18 12:54:05 2014. You will on the light rail the next time you are in Jerusalem. Or just take a bus somewhere like Rome. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 19 07:27:04 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Aug 18 22:19:34 2014. I'll do that. And I won't like it. And it won't be anything like the crowds on the M15.But why wouldn't I just tap my anonymous Rav Kav (thanks!) on the light rail? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Aug 19 14:12:29 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Aug 18 12:54:05 2014. I've been on a bus in Paris that had a validation thing by the rear door. You can get on the bus through all doors and just stick your little ticket thing in the validator. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Aug 19 14:18:06 2014, in response to M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011. It's been nice lately, I'd simply walk to the next SBS stop or take a local closer to the next stop.One time I was going to take the M34 SBS to the west side. I dipped my card at the machine @ Park Ave and started walking because Bus time said I'd be standing there wasting my time when I could walk and get some exercise out of it. A bus caught up at 5th or 6th Ave and I just walked up and went through the back door. Now, if an inspector would have saw me they would have possibly thought that I didn't have a ticket, but It was right in my hand. But no one checked anyway. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Aug 19 15:33:05 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Aug 19 14:12:29 2014. Probably Ligne 31. I rode that line in Paris, had nothing but Renault Agora L (1700-series) and Irisbus Agora L artics (1900-series) with onboard validators at every door. Very busy line, runs from Gare de L'Est to Charles de Gaulle-Etoille. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:04:26 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 19 07:27:04 2014. I forgot you had that. Paper tickets have magnetic strips that are read both for the initial validation and for random ticket inspections. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 20 12:50:27 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Aug 20 09:04:26 2014. Thanks. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Aug 20 13:34:46 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Dr. Casca on Tue Aug 19 15:33:05 2014. Does that line run close to the river? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Dr. Casca on Thu Aug 21 15:08:59 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by N6 Limited on Wed Aug 20 13:34:46 2014. Nah, it runs across the north side of town. The only line that runs artics by the river would probably be Ligne 27, which uses mainly Renault Agora L artics. I was gonna say the 80 from port de Versailles which uses MAN Lion's City artics, but it only crosses the river. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Transitbuff on Thu Aug 21 20:49:32 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by BrooklynTrain on Mon Aug 18 11:07:45 2014. In, N.Y. "they" are out to get the customers... |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by n6 limited on Thu Aug 21 23:08:01 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Dr. Casca on Thu Aug 21 15:08:59 2014. It might have been that line then |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 10:37:11 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Aug 12 11:36:38 2011. Unlike SBS most POP systems don't require passengers with unlimited passes to validate.The ticket checkers could have a hand held swipe device to confirm that the passenger has a valid unlimited MetroCard. This would greatly decrease the number of people who have to use the payment machines. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 22 10:49:04 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 10:37:11 2014. Swiping an unlimited card at a machine gives NYCT an idea of the daily passenger count.I was recently in Toronto. On the buses those with passes flash it to the operator. Management has no idea of what the daily ridership is on the route therefore. The only way to know is by a human traffic checker counting. But at subway interchanges there is also rear door entry so a count would be impossible. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Aug 22 17:23:02 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 22 10:49:04 2014. Swiping an unlimited card at a machine gives NYCT an idea of the daily passenger count.BINGO!!!!!! It also allows them to anonymously track trips. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 18:38:50 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 22 10:49:04 2014. Passenger convenience should be a higher priority than bean counting. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 22 19:33:20 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 18:38:50 2014. Explain to me how ridership can be counted when you don't have to swipe an unlimited card or swipe a pass?You would be the first guy to complain about inadaquate service levels while the ooerating authority has no way to count the number of riders. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Charles G on Sat Aug 23 03:38:26 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 22 19:33:20 2014. Ridership can be counted by people. Cities all over the world do it that way. LIRR and NJT do it that way.If you don't require riders to register both when entering and leaving the system, then your ridership data isn't particularly valid anyway. You won't know whether the person got off at the next stop or if they got off at the end of the line. So you have to supplement with other forms of counters anyway. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 24 22:19:19 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 18:38:50 2014. It's not bean counting. It's service planning. How will they plan the service if they don't know how many people are riding? Electronically tracking swipes is a lot more effective than manual counting using human traffic checkers. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 25 01:08:56 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 24 22:19:19 2014. However, as another poster mentioned, merely using electronic counting doesn't account for whether the passengers are long distance or short distance. That's why physical passenger counting still needs to be done. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 25 07:28:40 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 25 01:08:56 2014. Sure. That's a specialized study within traffic checking. But the main aspect to ridership counting is still better done by tracking fares/swipes. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by MR RT on Mon Aug 25 07:32:05 2014, in response to M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011. "... Without a printed SBS ticket, officials say to wait for the local bus, even if it adds time ..."Who ever in the MTA said that should be fired ! |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Aug 25 08:15:56 2014, in response to M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Gold_12TH on Fri Aug 12 03:07:49 2011. This story makes no sense. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by merrick1 on Tue Aug 26 07:14:14 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Charles G on Sat Aug 23 03:38:26 2014. Don't the new buses have cameras? Download the video and count the number of people getting on and off at each stop. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 26 07:31:53 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Tue Aug 26 07:14:14 2014. Sounds like fun!! |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 26 07:36:07 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Tue Aug 26 07:14:14 2014. Are you serious? You aren't aware that there are automated camera and software based systems that do just this? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by fset on Tue Aug 26 11:39:41 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Aug 26 07:36:07 2014. Well, the SBS machine is back in service, sort of. The machine on the right, #10067 refused my card, while the machine on the left is OK.This has happened in the past and I just wrote mta.info/email to complain. Is it just the rollers are dirty on the machine? |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Aug 26 12:33:15 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Fri Aug 22 10:37:11 2014. I'm not sure that is correct. In Israel, unlimited pass holders MUST validate on the light rail in Jerusalem or on buses or else they can be fined for not paying their fare. The same held true in Rome IIRC. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by merrick1 on Tue Aug 26 18:58:49 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 24 22:19:19 2014. How did they get this information back in the days of mechanical fireboxes? You would know how many passengers boarded a given bus that day but I don't think there was any information on where or when they boarded. |
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Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 27 20:30:02 2014, in response to Re: M15 SBS Payment Machine Breakdowns A Problem For Passengers, posted by merrick1 on Tue Aug 26 18:58:49 2014. I don't know. Maybe they didn't. But now they do know the data. So why give it up? It makes for better planning. |
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